Gary mannion videos
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obiwan
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hiorta
Jane Lyzell
Lis
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mac
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SpiritualismLink :: Psychic and Mediumship - Only True Mediumship Gives Proof of Survival :: Physical Mediumship
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Re: Gary mannion videos
Magicians are the bane of Spiritualists, in that they start with and stay with the premise that "it (mediumship) HAS to be fakery": but they can also be our greatest allies in exposing the fakery that unfortunately does occur in Spiritualism.
Left Behind
Re: Gary mannion videos
Unfortunately too many Magicians, Parapsychologists, Psychical Researchers & Anomalistic Psychologists (take your pick out of which of the last 3 terms is current ) take the view it is all fraud with the closed mind that accompanies it; Chris French from Goldsmiths University is the classic. In the end it is Spiritualists, or those within the movement, who tend to catch most fraud. However, the prevalence of fraud, particularly in Dark Seances, has, historically (and provably) been far to high, which gives rise to this position amongst those groups. Detailed research in this area finds that, as you dig further into the records, so called champions of the movement fall over. Far too many still believe in, for example, the Davenports. I have a recent, detailed, time line of the Bangs Sisters, including much not recorded in the few texts written by supporters of theirs, true heroines of Spiritualism so you would expect, that tends to blow their record to pieces.
Still that's for other places, what has come out in PN is truly scary but, if some of the information we have received, which cannot be used because we cannot attribute the source even if that appears extremely reliable, Gary is only one of a reasonably large group amongst the new PM's (well we know the issues around Kai, Akesohn , Caylor from posts on this forum). I do hope that people who have booked Gary cancel, but I must wonder how much credence can be placed in his trance healing when this is his modus operandi in séances.
Still that's for other places, what has come out in PN is truly scary but, if some of the information we have received, which cannot be used because we cannot attribute the source even if that appears extremely reliable, Gary is only one of a reasonably large group amongst the new PM's (well we know the issues around Kai, Akesohn , Caylor from posts on this forum). I do hope that people who have booked Gary cancel, but I must wonder how much credence can be placed in his trance healing when this is his modus operandi in séances.
Admin- Admin
Re: Gary mannion videos
It is evident from what is written in PN that Mannion must have admitted to Banyan Retreat that he had cheated, and allegedly agreed not to do further physical séances, a promise he reneged on when back in Australia. Indeed, to have subsequently written to Nic to try to buy the video ("name your price"!!), also highlights that this young man is entirely unscrupulous. Thankfully those at Banyan Retreat were not prepared to let Mannion get away with it and published the video clips on the internet.
The man who acted as his circle leader when in Australia for several years is also interviewed in the PN article and reveals he too had serious doubts about Mannion's mediumship and eventually discovered Mannion was out of his chair and cable ties and walking around the room. Disallusioned he ceased involvement.
But, he didn't make what he knew known, and this is what I don't understand. He finds out Mannion was cheating, but, even knowing this, they don't do anything to prevent people from being hoodwinked and cheated out of their money. I know it could have been said it's their word against Mannion's, but surely, when a person has discovered fraud they should tell someone, and try to mitigate the damage being done.
I am glad that Roy Stemman, as editor of PN, has come out so strongly on this matter, and look forward to further coverage in the next month's issue.
It is my honest opinion that the other aspects of Gary Mannion's alleged mediumship should also now be looked at very closely, and treated with reservation if not suspicion. Anyone who will so blatently cheat in one area may well be likely to operate the same way in their other activities.
The man who acted as his circle leader when in Australia for several years is also interviewed in the PN article and reveals he too had serious doubts about Mannion's mediumship and eventually discovered Mannion was out of his chair and cable ties and walking around the room. Disallusioned he ceased involvement.
But, he didn't make what he knew known, and this is what I don't understand. He finds out Mannion was cheating, but, even knowing this, they don't do anything to prevent people from being hoodwinked and cheated out of their money. I know it could have been said it's their word against Mannion's, but surely, when a person has discovered fraud they should tell someone, and try to mitigate the damage being done.
I am glad that Roy Stemman, as editor of PN, has come out so strongly on this matter, and look forward to further coverage in the next month's issue.
It is my honest opinion that the other aspects of Gary Mannion's alleged mediumship should also now be looked at very closely, and treated with reservation if not suspicion. Anyone who will so blatently cheat in one area may well be likely to operate the same way in their other activities.
Lis- Admin
Re: Gary mannion videos
Left Behind wrote:Hello, Mac! I've not seen the July issue of PN yet: my airmailed copy should be arriving in a day or so. One thing that certainly can be said about PN, in general: they pull no punches where fraudulent mediums and psychics are concerned. If anything, they delight in reporting on the fakers and con artists.
This Mannion was supposedly tied down during his performance? Not tied down very well, apparently: or does he have the escape skills of Houdini?
Did you see the videos, J?
mac
Re: Gary mannion videos
There's also a discussion forum tab on the videos site. Comments from a couple of the attendees at the show express their dismay at what happened to them.
They make interesting reading but should anyone visit please note that there's someone posting there using the name I customarily use - the 'mac' there isn't me! (It shouldn't be too difficult to work out who the writer actually is.)
They make interesting reading but should anyone visit please note that there's someone posting there using the name I customarily use - the 'mac' there isn't me! (It shouldn't be too difficult to work out who the writer actually is.)
mac
Re: Gary mannion videos
Left Behind wrote:Magicians are the bane of Spiritualists, in that they start with and stay with the premise that "it (mediumship) HAS to be fakery": but they can also be our greatest allies in exposing the fakery that unfortunately does occur in Spiritualism.
I meant this in the sense that "fakery" is the magicians' trade. They can often spot a conman medium quicker than we can, because they're more familiar with the tricks, and their mindset is to be on the lookout for them.
I agree that in practice, sincere Spiritualists, more so than professional magicians, are more likely to catch a fraudulent in the act, simply because they're more likely to be at his séance or demonstration.
Left Behind
Re: Gary mannion videos
mac wrote:Left Behind wrote:Hello, Mac! I've not seen the July issue of PN yet: my airmailed copy should be arriving in a day or so. One thing that certainly can be said about PN, in general: they pull no punches where fraudulent mediums and psychics are concerned. If anything, they delight in reporting on the fakers and con artists.
This Mannion was supposedly tied down during his performance? Not tied down very well, apparently: or does he have the escape skills of Houdini?
Did you see the videos, J?
Yes, I just-now watched them.
Very damning. But I wonder how he was able to see, to move about the room and play tricks on the sitters, if they were unable to see him doing it?
Also: how did this candid-camera happen to be there to catch him in the act? Was the host suspicious?
Left Behind
Re: Gary mannion videos
mac wrote:There's also a discussion forum tab on the videos site. Comments from a couple of the attendees at the show express their dismay at what happened to them.
They make interesting reading but should anyone visit please note that there's someone posting there using the name I customarily use - the 'mac' there isn't me! (It shouldn't be too difficult to work out who the writer actually is.)
Ah, the price of fame!
Left Behind
Re: Gary mannion videos
Left Behind wrote:mac wrote:Left Behind wrote:Hello, Mac! I've not seen the July issue of PN yet: my airmailed copy should be arriving in a day or so. One thing that certainly can be said about PN, in general: they pull no punches where fraudulent mediums and psychics are concerned. If anything, they delight in reporting on the fakers and con artists.
This Mannion was supposedly tied down during his performance? Not tied down very well, apparently: or does he have the escape skills of Houdini?
Did you see the videos, J?
Yes, I just-now watched them.
Very damning. But I wonder how he was able to see, to move about the room and play tricks on the sitters, if they were unable to see him doing it?
Also: how did this candid-camera happen to be there to catch him in the act? Was the host suspicious?
Very easy to move around in the dark if you practice in the room (ask any magician), especially if you are involved then in placing people in their seats, I commented about this earlier on Jim. The combination of cable ties and the darkness; apparently making it impossible for the medium to move about even if they got out of their seat, are the things that makes so many believe ...sadly.
Yes not only was the centre suspicious but a large chunk of previous attendees of his séances were being openly critical, the centre has the camera's permanently fixed as I understand it. I suppose the big issue is why would they not do this for all their dark séance mediums, not just those who have had questions raised about them.
Moot point about filming without the mediums knowledge, we know that, if asked, all mediums refuse filming (goes back a way, Simon Forsyth thought he had Stewart Alexanders agreement, to be refused when the cameras were ready, Scott Milligan and David Thompson openly refuse filming, etc., etc.,). Unfortunately sceptics may look at Mannion's outing then make an easy and hard to refute assumption that their refusal is for obvious reasons.
That's why there should be no public dark séances for money unless there are full controls and thermo graphic filming (indeed raising the light sufficiently for a residual light camera would still render the room effectively blacked out). What about the chair on electronic scales (we could also then register the medium's weight loss if ectoplasm appeared), together with the type of recording system used by athletes, non intrusive measuring all of the mediums vital signs. Hell film, weighing, measures of the life force, hopefully dim red light, we may not need cable ties.
Jim
Admin- Admin
Re: Gary mannion videos
I've been keeping an eye open, obi, but haven't seen anything different from what we already knew. Just like the brouhaha after the protocol was introduced in The Arthur Findlay College, I expect things will quieten down and if not exactly get forgotten they'll slip quietly into the past.
Similar to a couple of other phenomenalist / physical mediums' antics....
Similar to a couple of other phenomenalist / physical mediums' antics....
mac
Re: Gary mannion videos
I'm sure you're right my friend lolmac wrote:I've been keeping an eye open, obi, but haven't seen anything different from what we already knew. Just like the brouhaha after the protocol was introduced in The Arthur Findlay College, I expect things will quieten down and if not exactly get forgotten they'll slip quietly into the past.
Similar to a couple of other phenomenalist / physical mediums' antics....
obiwan
Re: Gary mannion videos
This Mannion fiasco -- or anything else that's happened or will happen -- won't be the be-all and end-all, make it or break it event for PM, mediumship, or Spiritualism in general.
It's just that everything that happens adds its little bit of good or little bit of bad to the equation. Mannion's actions added a little bit of bad.
It's just that everything that happens adds its little bit of good or little bit of bad to the equation. Mannion's actions added a little bit of bad.
Left Behind
Re: Gary mannion videos
Left Behind wrote:This Mannion fiasco -- or anything else that's happened or will happen -- won't be the be-all and end-all, make it or break it event for PM, mediumship, or Spiritualism in general.
It's just that everything that happens adds its little bit of good or little bit of bad to the equation. Mannion's actions added a little bit of bad.
Yes I'm sure you're right LB. I think what it does do is reduce the general level of trust in the world. As does any fraud or theft. It can make us less trusting, less willing to help others, to offer support. It can make us cynical. Particularly in situations like this where for many so much hangs on the truthfulness of their experience. To have their evidence of the survival of loved ones reduced to ashes in this way is a terrible thing.
For those of us who have little or no personal evidence, it is perhaps a step backwards.
obiwan
Re: Gary mannion videos
The only thing that I know is Mannion is being supported by the Australian's at the Wallacia Centre regardless of the evidence. As a result he is still working and advertising events there on his Facebook page. Nothing ever changes in this regard a whole new group will grow to accept his work regardless. Nothing seems to change, its why the current batch of Physical Mediums need to be forgotten about. None will agree to work within the guidelines proposed by the AFC which should be regarded as a bare minimum.
All of those currently with direct strikes against them, Muegge, Caylor, Mannion, MontCabirol, Akesohn (not a complete list I feel) are still happily working away and those others with queries against them are totally unaffected.
One does wonder what Australian immigration may think of Mannion's chosen way to make a living.
All of those currently with direct strikes against them, Muegge, Caylor, Mannion, MontCabirol, Akesohn (not a complete list I feel) are still happily working away and those others with queries against them are totally unaffected.
One does wonder what Australian immigration may think of Mannion's chosen way to make a living.
Admin- Admin
Re: Gary mannion videos
obiwan wrote:Left Behind wrote:This Mannion fiasco -- or anything else that's happened or will happen -- won't be the be-all and end-all, make it or break it event for PM, mediumship, or Spiritualism in general.
It's just that everything that happens adds its little bit of good or little bit of bad to the equation. Mannion's actions added a little bit of bad.
Yes I'm sure you're right LB. I think what it does do is reduce the general level of trust in the world. As does any fraud or theft. It can make us less trusting, less willing to help others, to offer support. It can make us cynical. Particularly in situations like this where for many so much hangs on the truthfulness of their experience. To have their evidence of the survival of loved ones reduced to ashes in this way is a terrible thing.
For those of us who have little or no personal evidence, it is perhaps a step backwards.
And also, lack of trust is an inhibiting factor at séances.
Left Behind
Re: Gary mannion videos
Left Behind wrote:obiwan wrote:Left Behind wrote:This Mannion fiasco -- or anything else that's happened or will happen -- won't be the be-all and end-all, make it or break it event for PM, mediumship, or Spiritualism in general.
It's just that everything that happens adds its little bit of good or little bit of bad to the equation. Mannion's actions added a little bit of bad.
Yes I'm sure you're right LB. I think what it does do is reduce the general level of trust in the world. As does any fraud or theft. It can make us less trusting, less willing to help others, to offer support. It can make us cynical. Particularly in situations like this where for many so much hangs on the truthfulness of their experience. To have their evidence of the survival of loved ones reduced to ashes in this way is a terrible thing.
For those of us who have little or no personal evidence, it is perhaps a step backwards.
And also, lack of trust is an inhibiting factor at séances.
True.
obiwan
Re: Gary mannion videos
I believe, LB that if you lack trust you do not attend and pay the rather exorbitant dollars involved. In history the mediums had no idea who was attending and many who came were very skeptical. There were some remarkable results as well as some remarkable frauds, especially the latter in dark seances.
Studies of history can create a fair degree of disillusion.
Studies of history can create a fair degree of disillusion.
Admin- Admin
Re: Gary mannion videos
Admin wrote:I believe, LB that if you lack trust you do not attend and pay the rather exorbitant dollars involved. In history the mediums had no idea who was attending and many who came were very skeptical. There were some remarkable results as well as some remarkable frauds, especially the latter in dark seances.
Studies of history can create a fair degree of disillusion.
Still, there need only be one white crow
obiwan
Re: Gary mannion videos
Psychic News is certainly reporting on l'affaire Mannipn, aren't they? The last 3 or so issues have had articles about this video.
Left Behind
Re: Gary mannion videos
Hi there,
Gary Mannion seems to receive some more attention again:
http://www.eckhardkruse.net/physmed/wallacia.html?en
Soon, he'll be back on the road to old fame, with old and new folks who will admire him...
Mic
Gary Mannion seems to receive some more attention again:
http://www.eckhardkruse.net/physmed/wallacia.html?en
Soon, he'll be back on the road to old fame, with old and new folks who will admire him...
Mic
Mic
Re: Gary mannion videos
Mic wrote:Hi there,
Gary Mannion seems to receive some more attention again:
http://www.eckhardkruse.net/physmed/wallacia.html?en
Soon, he'll be back on the road to old fame, with old and new folks who will admire him...
Mic
Nothing new under the sun..... Old scandals soon out of sight, soon out of mind. Just as with VW and their emissions cheating, Kia with a multi-million settlement for mis-claiming fuel consumption, Takata with their faulty air bags. They will all weather the storm and return to what they were doing in one form or another.
Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose mi ducks!
mac
Re: Gary mannion videos
Hi Mic,
We;; the new protocols have already been overturned in Scott Milligans public/private seances at Banyan. Gary has great support at Wallacia which is about the only place in Aus that would have him.
However I always commenetd that the leading "PM's" just wanted the dust to settle then they would return to doing exactly what they did before. Those that need thsi type of "fix" will always end up being drawn back.
Its sad and that report is one of the wirdest I have seen clealry non scientific and dedicated to find phenomena. Let Messrs Braude and Nahm loose on him with thermography and an array of the correct sensors.
We;; the new protocols have already been overturned in Scott Milligans public/private seances at Banyan. Gary has great support at Wallacia which is about the only place in Aus that would have him.
However I always commenetd that the leading "PM's" just wanted the dust to settle then they would return to doing exactly what they did before. Those that need thsi type of "fix" will always end up being drawn back.
Its sad and that report is one of the wirdest I have seen clealry non scientific and dedicated to find phenomena. Let Messrs Braude and Nahm loose on him with thermography and an array of the correct sensors.
Admin- Admin
Re: Gary mannion videos
Good evening all. its many months since my last post, and I read with interest the Manion fiasco. This is what so-called physical mediumship is like today.
I think there are probably a handful of physical mediums who can possibly be torch bearers of spirituals truth, ie John Sloane, Alex Harris etc. The issue of the 'dark' seance continues to vex one and all, but it does not mean phenomena is automatically fraudulent. In the last few years, I have become more and more distant from the Spiritualist debate. While I have wide experience of the seance and physical phenomena, I am not too well versed with the current scene, so forgive me if I show my ignorance.
I have come to the conclusion that within the genuine seance room there should be absolutely NO DOUBT as to the veracity of spirit communication. Particularly if communication is via Direct Voice or materialization. Unfortunately, there is often not spirit communication but a series of party tricks which pose as physical phenomena. To this end I propose a 'two-room test',(for want of a bettere title) and I would like any researcher or Spiritualist to tell me why this should not happen and why it is NOT happening...I will explain.
Room 1 represents the earth plane and the seance room. We are on it and in it when we are attending our seances. Our room is linked by a door to the outside world, and by another internal door to room 2, the Spirit World. The internal door, of course, we cannot see, its spirit but in the seance the medium provides the link and the spirit guide ( whomever that may be ) is passing g from the internal door from spirit into our material world through the medium, via materialisation, direct voice etc. Indeed the guide has his or her foot in both worlds. They can access people in spirit and allow then through the door into our seance room, or they can convey messages to our world from those in spirit.
Imagine you were the guide who is in that doorway. One foot in the material world, speaking to sitters, and the other in spirit, speaking to fellow spirits or your relatives. Just imagine it. You are able to listen to what people say in spirit, just as if you were listening to comments in one room here and passing that information on to people in the other room. Try it, See how accurate rate you could be. Say somebody's father is in room 2 and you are conveying information to their daughter in room 2. Ask dad to identify himself and how much information do you think you would need to pass on to the daughter???
Well, if the guide has that sort of contact, and truly has their feet in both worlds ask yourself why we don't have that degree of accuracy, what about full name, date of birth, previous occupation, likes, dislikes. Interesting isn't it, but that is the acid test....Where and when is this occurring. When we get communication on that level then I will sit up and take note. it is little wonder that Spiritualism is becoming an 'also ran' in the crackpot religion stakes. There may be the odd incidence of such accuracy, but can someone tell me why this is not happening when very clearly it should be, and should we not be demanding it....Come on physical mediums, put your money where your mouth is
I think there are probably a handful of physical mediums who can possibly be torch bearers of spirituals truth, ie John Sloane, Alex Harris etc. The issue of the 'dark' seance continues to vex one and all, but it does not mean phenomena is automatically fraudulent. In the last few years, I have become more and more distant from the Spiritualist debate. While I have wide experience of the seance and physical phenomena, I am not too well versed with the current scene, so forgive me if I show my ignorance.
I have come to the conclusion that within the genuine seance room there should be absolutely NO DOUBT as to the veracity of spirit communication. Particularly if communication is via Direct Voice or materialization. Unfortunately, there is often not spirit communication but a series of party tricks which pose as physical phenomena. To this end I propose a 'two-room test',(for want of a bettere title) and I would like any researcher or Spiritualist to tell me why this should not happen and why it is NOT happening...I will explain.
Room 1 represents the earth plane and the seance room. We are on it and in it when we are attending our seances. Our room is linked by a door to the outside world, and by another internal door to room 2, the Spirit World. The internal door, of course, we cannot see, its spirit but in the seance the medium provides the link and the spirit guide ( whomever that may be ) is passing g from the internal door from spirit into our material world through the medium, via materialisation, direct voice etc. Indeed the guide has his or her foot in both worlds. They can access people in spirit and allow then through the door into our seance room, or they can convey messages to our world from those in spirit.
Imagine you were the guide who is in that doorway. One foot in the material world, speaking to sitters, and the other in spirit, speaking to fellow spirits or your relatives. Just imagine it. You are able to listen to what people say in spirit, just as if you were listening to comments in one room here and passing that information on to people in the other room. Try it, See how accurate rate you could be. Say somebody's father is in room 2 and you are conveying information to their daughter in room 2. Ask dad to identify himself and how much information do you think you would need to pass on to the daughter???
Well, if the guide has that sort of contact, and truly has their feet in both worlds ask yourself why we don't have that degree of accuracy, what about full name, date of birth, previous occupation, likes, dislikes. Interesting isn't it, but that is the acid test....Where and when is this occurring. When we get communication on that level then I will sit up and take note. it is little wonder that Spiritualism is becoming an 'also ran' in the crackpot religion stakes. There may be the odd incidence of such accuracy, but can someone tell me why this is not happening when very clearly it should be, and should we not be demanding it....Come on physical mediums, put your money where your mouth is
LeroyC
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SpiritualismLink :: Psychic and Mediumship - Only True Mediumship Gives Proof of Survival :: Physical Mediumship
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