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Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

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Post by Neilos on Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:14 pm

Good point IDLF's but without an alternative solution I am literally left in the dark as to how this could have done by trickery. I have sat with Kai twice as l have previously said and both séances were different. To have used trickery as per your view the medium would have to hidden a telescopic rod, swallowed 4 different types of material that could move independently and appear to grow and obviously regurgitate the different materials at will. Then swallow or hide the different materials on his person in a matter of minutes. In the second séance I was fortunate enough to have spirit lights pass through my body and I don't think the D-lite thingy can do that?

Neilos


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Post by dont-like-frauds on Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:53 pm

Neilos wrote:Good point IDLF's but without an alternative solution I am literally left in the dark as to how this could have done by trickery. I have sat with Kai twice as l have previously said and both séances were different. To have used trickery as per your view the medium would have to hidden a telescopic rod, swallowed 4 different types of material that could  move independently and appear to grow and obviously regurgitate the different materials at will. Then swallow or hide the different materials on his person in a matter of minutes. In the second séance I was fortunate enough to have spirit lights pass through my body and I don't think the D-lite thingy can do that?

Bad news. You´ll have to live with this "not knowing how it works". I don´t know, when Mügge started to investigate how to cheat. He´s years in advance. That is, what he profits from - beside other things. You want to have this "knowledge" here and now? I can´t tell you how to cheat, Mügge won´t tell you. You´ve sat twice with him, me three years. So what do you expect? If you want to know how he cheats, start to read "psychic mafia" and maybe you start to get an idea, how it works. Buy some books from the bibliography of Keene and then maybe start to join a magician circle etc etc. Work with logic riddles to train your brain. Sometimes you just have to think around the corner. Do you know the story of the man who used to walk everyday with an umbrella, even when there was no rain at all? He needed the umbrella to operate the elevator, because he was so small and lived in the upper floor, can´t reach the buttom....Got the idea of what i mean? And then maybe one day you will know, how it works. But for what? Please don´t get me wrong, but the question we have to ask ourselves is, how much input does our Ego need to accept, that we have been cheated? Sometetimes we just have to let things go and find back to normal life....

dont-like-frauds


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Post by Mic on Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:58 pm

"In the second séance I was fortunate enough to have spirit lights pass through my body and I don't think the D-lite thingy can do that?"

Hi,
wow, that sounds amazing. I'd be very grateful if you could describe this process in more detail. Eg, which colour and size did these lights have, where did they enter and leave your body, how long did they stay inside, and how did it feel when they entered, moved inside, and left your body? Thanks!

Mic


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Post by Neilos on Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:09 pm

They were white orb like lights that appeared in blackout conditions whilst in a public séance. The lights were moving around quite quickly towards my torso area and just carried on rIght through. No sensation as such but could see them entering and exiting my body following their own rythmn.

Neilos


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Post by Neilos on Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:17 pm

Thanks for your reply IDLF's but my question is out of curiosity rather than any burning desire. I am saddened by the D-lite video but don't believe that it is all trickery. No tricks of the ego but looking at the phenomenon in a logical way. I followed Keene link you posted and the trumpet demo does not compare to what I experienced in anyway. I have seen similar with other public mediums but not the ones with Kai. As you have said you know Kai very well so it seems logical to ask you for your perspective.

Neilos


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Post by Mic on Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:35 pm

"They were white orb like lights that appeared in blackout conditions whilst in a public séance. The lights were moving around quite quickly towards my torso area and just carried on rIght through. No sensation as such but could see them entering and exiting my body following their own rythmn."

Thanks, that's cool Neilos....I have one last question: Was it one light that flew around, or were there multiple lights moving around at the same time?

Mic


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Post by Jane Lyzell on Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:40 pm

dont-like-frauds wrote:
Neilos wrote:Still doesn't explain my experiences of sitting with Kai which I believe was genuine. I saw web like ectoplasm, a pulsing putty like substance, the ecto hand that waved plus a approx 4' tower that grew from the floor which was observed in red light. The Halloween cobwebs theory cannot account for what I experienced. I was stood behind the mediums wife's chair and was about 6' away from the cabinet with quite a unique perspective as I could observe the phenomena from the side rather than front.


It´s a trap to believe sth. could be genuine, because one can´t explain the trick. But i can understand you. Many people are in the same situation and unfortunatly only a few have left this trap behind them. It blocks emotionally not to know, how it works. One doesn´t want to do sth. wrong to someone. Knowing and using this, Mügge additionally i.e. presents his many supportes on his blog to make one believe he´s genuine. So many people can´t be wrong...And at a certain point this all becomes a fast- selling item.
You get closer to the truth, when you consider the fact, that the trance is faked. In Michael Nahm´s report and on my blog http://last-exit-felixcircle.blogspot.de/ you can see, that at least one part of the performance is faked. The pictures are very clear. This makes it very, very reasonable, that the rest of the cabinetshow is faked, too. Including the allegedly ectoplasm. Both „appeared“ in the same performance. Mixed mediumship? One time he „produces real ectoplasm“ and sometimes he only uses spiderweb? Why? Hello? What would „normal“ people say, if you tell them this story? What does common sense say?
If the admin allows and you want, i can post you the 11 paged bibliography of Lamar Keene´s „psychic mafia“. I´m just finished reading this book. All about fake and how to do. I´m sure you´ll find sth. which explains the trickery to you, too, if this is so important. It looks like that this all is an century old fake business, which Mügge just reanimated quite well. He had time enough in his workless past to study this all. I don´t have the time to do this and actually i´m not interested anymore to know in details how he faked. I´m glad that i´m off and still healthy. I have an idea because of my experience with him, but it´s a little bit disgusting to tell. I´ve read about it in Keene´s book. Just use your imagination...

Understand how you feel- when I look att the video on youre blogg - he has a clog ore spiderwebb under his chare ???? - it somthing realy wrong.......
Jane Lyzell
Jane Lyzell


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Post by dont-like-frauds on Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:44 pm

Neilos wrote:Thanks for your reply IDLF's but my question is out of curiosity rather than any burning desire. I am saddened by the D-lite video but don't believe that it is all trickery. No tricks of the ego but looking at the phenomenon in a logical way. I followed Keene link you posted and the trumpet demo does not compare to what I experienced in anyway. I have seen similar with other public mediums but not the ones with Kai. As you have said you know Kai very well so it seems logical to ask you for your perspective.

I´ve told my perspective enough. I´ve suggested you much more things to do to maybe find out what´s going on. I´m sorry, but i can´t help you more. Have you studied the bibliography already? Got some books already? I can´t and I won´t do the work you have to do if you want to know it all. Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge - Page 13 382644 And i´ve said, that i don´t mention the private issues i know about KM. I don´t want to be drawn back in this adversity again and have sth. to do with him by talking about private things publicly. Thank you for your understanding.

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Post by Jane Lyzell on Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:56 pm

We hade the so cold light of love - in The swedish froude Anders Åkesson cirle - what i understand it is luminous cardboard. in diffrent peaces Evil or Very Mad
Jane Lyzell
Jane Lyzell


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Post by Neilos on Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:32 am

There were more than one light. How was the cardboard used Jane?

Neilos


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Post by dont-like-frauds on Tue Dec 09, 2014 9:26 am

Jane Lyzell wrote:
dont-like-frauds wrote:
Neilos wrote:Still doesn't explain my experiences of sitting with Kai which I believe was genuine. I saw web like ectoplasm, a pulsing putty like substance, the ecto hand that waved plus a approx 4' tower that grew from the floor which was observed in red light. The Halloween cobwebs theory cannot account for what I experienced. I was stood behind the mediums wife's chair and was about 6' away from the cabinet with quite a unique perspective as I could observe the phenomena from the side rather than front.


It´s a trap to believe sth. could be genuine, because one can´t explain the trick. But i can understand you. Many people are in the same situation and unfortunatly only a few have left this trap behind them. It blocks emotionally not to know, how it works. One doesn´t want to do sth. wrong to someone. Knowing and using this, Mügge additionally i.e. presents his many supportes on his blog to make one believe he´s genuine. So many people can´t be wrong...And at a certain point this all becomes a fast- selling item.
You get closer to the truth, when you consider the fact, that the trance is faked. In Michael Nahm´s report and on my blog http://last-exit-felixcircle.blogspot.de/ you can see, that at least one part of the performance is faked. The pictures are very clear. This makes it very, very reasonable, that the rest of the cabinetshow is faked, too. Including the allegedly ectoplasm. Both „appeared“ in the same performance. Mixed mediumship? One time he „produces real ectoplasm“ and sometimes he only uses spiderweb? Why? Hello? What would „normal“ people say, if you tell them this story? What does common sense say?
If the admin allows and you want, i can post you the 11 paged bibliography of Lamar Keene´s „psychic mafia“. I´m just finished reading this book. All about fake and how to do. I´m sure you´ll find sth. which explains the trickery to you, too, if this is so important. It looks like that this all is an century old fake business, which Mügge just reanimated quite well. He had time enough in his workless past to study this all. I don´t have the time to do this and actually i´m not interested anymore to know in details how he faked. I´m glad that i´m off and still healthy. I have an idea because of my experience with him, but it´s a little bit disgusting to tell. I´ve read about it in Keene´s book. Just use your imagination...

Understand how you feel- when I look att the video on youre blogg - he has a clog ore spiderwebb under his chare ???? - it somthing realy wrong.......

I don´t know more than you. But to me it looks like the alleged "ectoplasm" he just let on the floor while his performance. You must know, that these photos are brightened. In "real", you couldn´t see this white mass!

dont-like-frauds


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Post by wattie on Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:16 am

What exactly is your position now DLF? Have you completely aligned yourself with James Randi and Lamar Keene in believing that all seance room phenomena is and always has been achieved by fakery? I realise that you have been hurt by your experiences but if this is now your position it would seem to be an extreme reaction given the extensive historical record.

wattie


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Post by dont-like-frauds on Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:19 am

wattie wrote:What exactly is your position now DLF? Have you completely aligned yourself with James Randi and Lamar Keene in believing that all seance room phenomena is and always has been achieved by fakery? I realise that you have been hurt by your experiences but if this is now your position it would seem to be an extreme reaction given the extensive historical record.

Hi, no, i´ve said, that i can finally let Randi with his position, that there is nothing. Before, i thought he is an "enemy". And for me, he fortunatly is not anymore for the reason i´ve mentioned.
Don´t worry, i´m very glad, that i´ve got so many individual prooves from spirit, the other dimension, god or whatever you will name it with the years and even could give this to others (without taking money, but private with friends and on seminars), that this story can´t bother me concerning my assumption of an afterlife. But it has teached me, that i was wrong with the presupposition (and i think this is unfortunatly still the position of the spiritualists, but i´m not sure), that "evil" powers doesn´t exist. In this believe i have been actually physically attacted in a special situation by them in the felixcircle in Hanau beside all the other things. I had to learn it the hard way, that i was wrong. So, there is a sense in everything and this was my lesson i had to learn. If you play with the fire, you might get burned. And, please don´t get me wrong, but if someone comes today to me and says: Hi, i´m a medium, i actually start to get cautious.... Smile

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Post by Jane Lyzell on Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:21 am

dont-like-frauds wrote:
Jane Lyzell wrote:
dont-like-frauds wrote:
Neilos wrote:Still doesn't explain my experiences of sitting with Kai which I believe was genuine. I saw web like ectoplasm, a pulsing putty like substance, the ecto hand that waved plus a approx 4' tower that grew from the floor which was observed in red light. The Halloween cobwebs theory cannot account for what I experienced. I was stood behind the mediums wife's chair and was about 6' away from the cabinet with quite a unique perspective as I could observe the phenomena from the side rather than front.


It´s a trap to believe sth. could be genuine, because one can´t explain the trick. But i can understand you. Many people are in the same situation and unfortunatly only a few have left this trap behind them. It blocks emotionally not to know, how it works. One doesn´t want to do sth. wrong to someone. Knowing and using this, Mügge additionally i.e. presents his many supportes on his blog to make one believe he´s genuine. So many people can´t be wrong...And at a certain point this all becomes a fast- selling item.
You get closer to the truth, when you consider the fact, that the trance is faked. In Michael Nahm´s report and on my blog http://last-exit-felixcircle.blogspot.de/ you can see, that at least one part of the performance is faked. The pictures are very clear. This makes it very, very reasonable, that the rest of the cabinetshow is faked, too. Including the allegedly ectoplasm. Both „appeared“ in the same performance. Mixed mediumship? One time he „produces real ectoplasm“ and sometimes he only uses spiderweb? Why? Hello? What would „normal“ people say, if you tell them this story? What does common sense say?
If the admin allows and you want, i can post you the 11 paged bibliography of Lamar Keene´s „psychic mafia“. I´m just finished reading this book. All about fake and how to do. I´m sure you´ll find sth. which explains the trickery to you, too, if this is so important. It looks like that this all is an century old fake business, which Mügge just reanimated quite well. He had time enough in his workless past to study this all. I don´t have the time to do this and actually i´m not interested anymore to know in details how he faked. I´m glad that i´m off and still healthy. I have an idea because of my experience with him, but it´s a little bit disgusting to tell. I´ve read about it in Keene´s book. Just use your imagination...

Understand how you feel- when I look att the video on youre blogg - he has a clog ore spiderwebb under his chare ???? - it somthing realy wrong.......

I don´t know more than you. But to me it looks like the alleged "ectoplasm" he just let on the floor while his performance. You must know, that these photos are brightened. In "real", you couldn´t see this white mass!

a joke - why would the so-called ectoplasman lie on the floor itself. it is always coupled with the medium.
Jane Lyzell
Jane Lyzell


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Post by Jane Lyzell on Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:23 am

Neilos wrote:There were more than one light. How was the cardboard used Jane?

He moved it around whit his hand.
Jane Lyzell
Jane Lyzell


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Post by Jane Lyzell on Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:48 pm

dont-like-frauds wrote:
wattie wrote:What exactly is your position now DLF? Have you completely aligned yourself with James Randi and Lamar Keene in believing that all seance room phenomena is and always has been achieved by fakery? I realise that you have been hurt by your experiences but if this is now your position it would seem to be an extreme reaction given the extensive historical record.

Hi, no, i´ve said, that i can finally let Randi with his position, that there is nothing. Before, i thought he is an "enemy". And for me, he fortunatly is not anymore for the reason i´ve mentioned.
Don´t worry, i´m very glad, that i´ve got so many individual prooves from spirit, the other dimension, god or whatever you will name it with the years and even could give this to others (without taking money, but private with friends and on seminars), that this story can´t bother me concerning my assumption of an afterlife.

(/ But it has teached me, that i was wrong with the presupposition (and i think this is unfortunatly still the position of the spiritualists, but i´m not sure), that "evil" powers doesn´t exist. In this believe i have been actually physically attacted in a special situation by them in the felixcircle in Hanau beside all the other things. I had to learn it the hard way, that i was wrong. So, there is a sense in everything and this was my lesson i had to learn. If you play with the fire, you might get burned. And, please don´t get me wrong, but if someone comes today to me and says: Hi, i´m a medium, i actually start to get cautious.... Smile

the last part here is somthing that is rely importent in physicalmediumship- and thats why it is so importent the character on the medium - low character = low spiritits - so investigate the medium in the daly life are they honest or dishonest. You hace to have the highest hart in this , otherwise it can damege.

Jane Lyzell
Jane Lyzell


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Post by hiorta on Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:22 pm

At last. The way ahead is slowly opening. We determine our own outcome so much more than Spirit ever can. It is all within - truly.
hiorta
hiorta


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Post by Neilos on Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:24 pm

I agree hiorota.

Neilos


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Post by dont-like-frauds on Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:10 pm

I can´t understand, that people still invite Mügge. These people must be "hardcore followers":
http://www.metaphysicalchapel.com/index.php/component/content/article/81-german-physical-medium-the-felix-circle
It´s a shame.
They advertise with the "scientific research" of the year 2013, but don´t mention the actual concerns of the same researchers. Intention?

dont-like-frauds


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Post by Neilos on Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:33 am

You urged me to let it go IDLF's, but it seems you are really struggling to do this yourself.

Neilos


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Post by dont-like-frauds on Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:03 am

Neilos wrote:You urged me to let it go IDLF's, but it seems you are really struggling to do this yourself.

Sorry, what do you mean?

dont-like-frauds


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Post by dont-like-frauds on Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:15 am

wattie wrote:What exactly is your position now DLF? Have you completely aligned yourself with James Randi and Lamar Keene in believing that all seance room phenomena is and always has been achieved by fakery? I realise that you have been hurt by your experiences but if this is now your position it would seem to be an extreme reaction given the extensive historical record.

I just read your question again and want to give you another answer and it could be that i answer again, because there is so much potential in this question, that 1. i want to stick to the topic and 2. don´t let an answer get too long, because it´s boring to read.
First of all i don´t have much experiences about the history of PM. KM has, i think he read every book existing about that. From today point´s of view, i would say, there KM got the ideas how to perform. This is why i insist so boringly on the bibliography of Keene. I guess after having this knowledge everyone could do what KM does. I´m still waiting on the first ectoplasm to see and to correct myself,  i´m not really waiting on it, because it´s not really necessary to get in contact with spirit. It would be nice, yes, but the fraudulent is just too much to believe in its existence. Are there some real „prooves“?
Randi did more for the „truth“ than i ever thought he could do by „deleting“ the untruthful cheaters.
Look around. It´s awful who all claims to be a „medium“. I once looked in the list somewhere who all wants to master his challenge. At a point i thought the sanatory had a day off, so many crazy people wanted to get the million dollars. But what i just realize is, what people are ready to do to get money!
No-one will ever get the million dollar, because afterlife can´t be prooved to the actual scientific criterias. This is the same as you want to proove love. This doesn´t mean, that afterlife does not exists. What would happen if we could proove afterlife to the actual scientific criterias, would it have only positive consequences? Somethink to think about.
No-one will even get Zammit´s million. Because it´s the same. You can´t proove, that afterlife doesn´t exist. You can´t proove sth. negative. You can´t proove, that Santa Claus doesn´t exist, too. And that is good, too, at least for the kiddies.
I think, the truth is in the middle.
I only heard about Lamar Keene from Michael Nahm. I feel close to Keene, not because i´m a cheater, but because i had to make a hard cut in my life, too, 25 years ago. Explaining this would be a longer story, but in the end it would come back to the topic, too. I don´t know, but i think Keene is the only one who thruthfully committed cheating, has paid his price for it and changed his life afterwards. Even he was such a great cheater, he did not loose his faith. Just let me pls. quote the end of his book to show:
„There is so much in the real world to enchant you, thrill you, elevate you. Why immure yourself in the darkness of the medium´s cabinet where spirits „peep and mutter“ and human folly falls prey to human greed? I believe in life not death. I believe in light not darkness. I believe in the strength that comes from standing on one´s own two feet rather than hobbling on the crutches of a deluded faith in a fraudulent medium. Find your own way in the uncertainties of life. With God´s help you can do it.“ (Lamar Keene „The Psychic Mafia“, p. 163)

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Post by Neilos on Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:55 am

Great post lDLF's especially the Keene quote...l agree there is a lot more to life than the séance room. But that does not mean there are not genuine physical mediums. I don't think that you have or anyone else made a good enough case to say outright that Kai's mediumship is entirely fraudulent. I have also had some great experiences myself in a home circle that I was involved in and sat with two developing physical mediums that I can 100% say are the real deal. I don't think that everyone is ready to accept that life is eternal and spirit work on a person by person basis Smile

Neilos


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Post by dont-like-frauds on Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:57 am

I don´t say, that there are no PM´s outside or have ever been. Unfortunatly i haven´t met one. And actually this is not my aim in life, even it would be „cool“. So, i´m still open, even after so many bashes. What is the saying: what doesn´t kill us makes us harder? Oh, dear... Very Happy
Is it my job to debunk KM to a 100%? What would be the criterias for it? How many percent is he debunked already? With how many percent of someone debunked we/ you/ i want to have contact?
If i would tell you some stories about Mügge´s past and his actual reality today so that you know who is really sitting in this cabinet (again, the cabinet is my old thai sauna i´ve colored black), you would run away as fast as you can. But would it really help if i name such details? First, KM would deny it completly. Second, people wouldn´t believe it. Keene is the best example. So let the pressure on Mügge. Time will bring solution. Have a nice day.

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Post by obiwan on Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:13 am

dont-like-frauds wrote:Time will bring solution.

I completely agree. Time reveals all things.

obiwan


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