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Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

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Mic
Neilos
wattie
bravo321uk
Jane Lyzell
hiorta
dont-like-frauds
Mark74
baumer7
carrsam
LeroyC
Petco
obiwan
eternaltruths
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21 posters

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Post by Neilos Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:26 am

Interesting views from MN regarding KM's mediumship. He clearly indicates that it is mixed in his opinion following investigations. Sadley l think that KM is really clutching at straws in trying to offer an alternative explanation for the D' lite Flight photos.

Neilos


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Post by obiwan Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:04 am

I think KM does seem to me to make a good point. The comments are out there now. It may start to look like a vendetta against him if the row continues. Whilst some may feel this is what he deserves I don't really see the point once the information suggesting his methods are fraudulent is out there.

Fraud is the domain of the Police. If that's what it is, perhaps it should be reported and left to them?

obiwan


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Post by dont-like-frauds Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:14 am

bravo321uk wrote:Ill Just leave this here from pm4u comments by michael nahn and then kai muegee


Dear Kai,



Thank you very much for uploading the picture of the D’Lite Flight in front of the cabinet curtain again onto your blog, given that you deleted it from there earlier this year after I confronted you with the fact that you used this device in the past.

However, would you please stop lying to everybody, and stop depicting the proof for fraud that I have unearthed as misleading fancies of a careless simpleton?

To set the record straight (once more…):



   It is now known that, in a telephone conversation with your long term circle leader on April 2, 2014, you have explicitly confessed having used the D’Lite Flight in past sittings while you pretended to be “Hans Bender”. The proof was just overwhelming, there was no escape. I followed these events quite closely around that time, and was in touch with the circle leader before and after your conversation with him (see p. 266 in my paper). By the way, the circle leader has not only informed me about your confession, but also other parapsychologists I am in touch with.



   Confession yes or no, that’s not even important. The photo series prove by themselves that you have used a D’Lite Flight. In case you should disagree: Will you please give me your permission to publicize the 109 pictures that show how you used it? Then, I could add a few explanations as to what exactly is to be seen on them.
   Concerning the picture on your blog, which is supposed to show that the “spirit light” moved “5 feet” in front of the cabinet, because the reflection on the floor seems to indicate this: This picture belongs to the second photo series described in my paper (pp. 262-268). It was taken in April 2011 in the living room of Hermann Haushahn in front of a group of paying guest sitters. I have already written about this particular picture in my paper, and there’s nothing to add from today’s perspective (see p. 280f of my paper; http://www.anomalistik.de/images/stories/pdf/sdm/sdm-2014-08-nahm.pdf). Here is the quote:

“According to the preserved blog posting of KM, the third photograph shows how the light ‘danced around in front of the closed curtains.’ Yet, note the two ends of the trace created by the moving light on the left side. They are in perfect alignment with the right side of the lowest curtain drape, which (this is evident on other pictures of this series) represents the edge of the right cabinet curtain (seen from KM’s perspective). It is obvious that KM simply stuck the LED-device through the gap between the curtains, and let the LED dangle in front of the left curtain.
Moreover, the elongate reflection of the whitish-red light on the floor doesn’t represent the distance of the light from the curtains, as KM asserted in the posting from August 02, 2011. Rather, according to trials that I have re-enacted with a light source above a glossy floor surface in the dark, such reflections appear at a distance from their source in relation to the position of the observer, and, in this case, also the camera. Similarly, the sun’s reflection on a plain water surface in the evening doesn’t tell us that the sun is located vertically above its reflection. Evidently, the reflection is closer to the observer than the light source causing it.”

Actually, that’s quite a banality. And, just as you postulated on your blog, your hand IS visible sticking in the gap between the two curtains on some of the pictures after appropriate brightening.

   Nobody has ever claimed that ALL your spirit lights were produced with a D’Lite Flight. Obviously, this is not the case. I only refer to the whitish-red light that “Hans Bender” has described as a concentration of ectoplasm, a condensed and pulsating form of pure life force. Note: You have NEVER shown this kind of light under four-limb control. You always showed the D’Lite Flight in red light (or in blackout conditions) as the final highlight (!) of your sittings after the other ectoplasm displays (what may well say something about the true nature of the preceding displays of phenomena). Also, to my knowledge, you have not used the D’Lite Flight since 2013. Needless to say, the different kinds of “spirit lights” you show these days under four-limb control are quite irrelevant for judging about the nature of THIS particular whitish-red light.



@ Robin:

Please don’t delete this posting, as it helps others to discover the truth about certain phenomena of Physical Mediumship. Isn’t this what PM4U is all about?

Besides, deleting all critical postings from here is rather futile, given that they (re-)appear sooner or later in “another forum”, namely here:



https://www.spiritualismlink.com/f5-physical-mediumship



The only noteworthy effect that your peculiar deleting strategy has is destroying your own reputation as a credible PM expert.

Is that the footprint you want to leave, Robin? I hope not.



Best wishes,

Michael

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Comment by Kai Muegge 4 hours ago
   You are not simply wanting to keep the records straight! You have published your opinions already months ago! No, you use my right to defend as a reason to demolish me and my character publicly repeatedly! You have totally lost your scientific distance and actually believe, having interpreted photos means you own THE TRUTH!? ARE YOU KIDDING? What do you know!? Who are you to judge!?
   I have given myself to investigation and came out of it succesfully! What do you wanna attack in the Braude investigation? That 'still not the best controls were applied that were used in the most prolific tests in history'? Pah! Know what, i am happy with SECOND BEST! You was there when synchronicity apports happened, you was there when matter appeared with pre- and post-control, you was there when being under your unquestionable holding control the 5 main phenomenon-events happened!
   So what are you doing here!? Despite the fraud proof conditions of the test sessions do you want to say the mediumship is questionable? You already have!
   Do you want to say you are suspecting this and that, you already have!
   So what are you doing here!? You have already told the public your opinion!

   What you are now doing is character assassination! Also massively behind the scenes!
   I don t know if it originally was a misunderstanding or from beginning on a fabrication!
   There was no phone call with a confession, and there was no circle leader who informed parapsychologists!
   Not in a too distant future the circle leader will speak out for himself! HE WILL KEEP THE RECORDS STRAIGHT! Because he has not fallen into the emotional trap and made no personal war out of former scientific investigation! You are using the known fact, the circle leader CANNOT speak out momentarily to spread the fairytale of confession!
   What are you doing!?
   Shame on you! Whatever you believe you have discovered, i am allowed to tell the story from another perspective!
   You have interpreted photos from before the Braude Investigation! Understood!
   But now you are waylaying restlessly through the forums moralising about the possibility of fraud!!
   Hopefully not in a too distant future a moralist is looking into your past and questions actions of yours that may totally discredit you being elligible for a scientific investigation into the mysteries of mankind!

   I have proven my mediumship in the last years again and again and again! With strip search and four limbs control! WE KNOW YOUR OPINION! And now let us carry on with our lifes! Would you be so kind!?

Puh! It seems, that Kai Mügge is getting nervous. Brave Michael Nahm!
Again, Mügge doesn´t give any answer to the published photos.
He prefers to attack Michael Nahm rudely and personally. Is Kai Mügge the medium, mankind is waiting for? Hm...
Interesting to hear, that the circleleader is gonna write sth. in the future, Very interesting.
We will see, if this is only another loudmouthed announcement.
I know from the circleleader himself, that he doesn´t want to have to do anything with the whole case anymore. At least publicly. This is, what he told me. This was the reason, he wanted to delete his (faked) name in my blog, not the photos. So there is no worry with him and me. If he really will write sth, then i hope it´s out of his free will, because his (faked) name and photos of him are still on Mügge´s blog. Mügge didn´t delete it. I did.

dont-like-frauds


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Post by dont-like-frauds Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:46 am

obiwan wrote:I think KM does seem to me to make a good point. The comments are out there now. It may start to look like a vendetta against him if the row continues. Whilst some may feel this is what he deserves I don't really see the point once the information suggesting his methods are fraudulent is out there.

Fraud is the domain of the Police. If that's what it is, perhaps it should be reported and left to them?


Hi obiwan,
What would you tell the police? There is someone claiming to be a physical medium, but he´s not?
They would ask you, why you wonder! The cheater know this, and this is why it is so easy for them nowadays to do so. Only a few bravehearts are fighting against these criminals and risk to get comments like you give above and more things to happen to them.
Let us pls. change the scenario to your answer „The comments are out now“. Imagine, there is a father beating his child on a daily base. You´ve asked him to stop this. He doesn´t do. You ask him again. He said, yes i know, you´ve said it to me already. Go away. Let us live our lifes.
This father will start to blame you, you would spread the lie, he is beating his own son. You can´t proove it, because: how? The son is afraid to talk. Maybe he can´t proove it, too.
How would you feel? Would you go on helping this poor boy? Pls. think about it again, if you´re saying, there´s a vendetta against KM going on. For what reason?

dont-like-frauds


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Post by obiwan Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:24 am

dont-like-frauds wrote:
obiwan wrote:I think KM does seem to me to make a good point. The comments are out there now. It may start to look like a vendetta against him if the row continues. Whilst some may feel this is what he deserves I don't really see the point once the information suggesting his methods are fraudulent is out there.

Fraud is the domain of the Police. If that's what it is, perhaps it should be reported and left to them?


Hi obiwan,
What would you tell the police? There is someone claiming to be a physical medium, but he´s not?
They would ask you, why you wonder! The cheater know this, and this is why it is so easy for them nowadays to do so. Only a few bravehearts are fighting against these criminals and risk to get comments like you give above and more things to happen to them.
Let us pls. change the scenario to your answer „The comments are out now“. Imagine, there is a father beating his child on a daily base. You´ve asked him to stop this. He doesn´t do. You ask him again. He said, yes i know, you´ve said it to me already. Go away. Let us live our lifes.
This father will start to blame you, you would spread the lie, he is beating his own son. You can´t proove it, because: how? The son is afraid to talk. Maybe he can´t proove it, too.
How would you feel? Would you go on helping this poor boy? Pls. think about it again, if you´re saying, there´s a vendetta against KM going on. For what reason?

The points I am making are these:

1 Beating a child is a criminal offence. Get the police involved. Telling people you're producing phenomena and taking money when you're not is fraud. Get the police involved. You're not the Police. Your analogy with child beating is a poor one because in that case the authorities would get involved whether or not the child backed it up or whether or not there was sufficient evidence to convinct. It's an unnecessary appeal to emotion imho.

2 I am not saying you're wrong to publicise your experiences. There is a difference between doing that - which you have done very well, and turning it into a campaign. You're perectly within your rights to do both. I think after a while it may look to some like you have a personal grudge (which I can understand). This may weaken your argument.

3 For what it's worth, as a dispassionate observer, I'd say there enough evidence out there now for a reasonable person to see what KM is up to. If people choose to ignore that, it's their problem. You may of course continue to do what you're doing, and I am not saying that's wrong, I am just asking what is your objective?

obiwan


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Post by Neilos Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:43 am

IDLF's, MN makes reference to various photo sequences in the report on PM4u. Is it possible to see these and where could I look?

Neilos


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Post by dont-like-frauds Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:59 pm

obiwan wrote:
dont-like-frauds wrote:
obiwan wrote:

The points I am making are these:

1 Beating a child is a criminal offence. Get the police involved. Telling people you're  producing phenomena and taking money when you're not is fraud. Get the police involved. You're not the Police. Your analogy with child beating is a poor one because in that case the authorities would get involved whether or not the child backed it up or whether or not there was sufficient evidence to convinct. It's an unnecessary appeal to emotion imho.

2 I am not saying you're wrong to publicise your experiences. There is a difference between doing that - which you have done very well, and turning it into a campaign. You're perectly within your rights to do both. I think after a while it may look to some like you have a personal grudge (which I can understand). This may weaken your argument.

3 For what it's worth, as a dispassionate observer, I'd say there enough evidence out there now for a reasonable person to see what KM is up to. If people choose to ignore that, it's their problem. You may of course continue to do what you're doing, and I am not saying that's wrong, I am just asking what is your objective?

Hi obiwan,

the comparison was maybe not so good, but i didn´t have a better one in the short time. It was not an appeal to emotion. And it was something missing with the example: the father invited you in the beginning, to check and prove, that he´s doing well with his son.
KM shouts at MN, gets personal, behaves very rudely. No opinion about that behaviour? Only claim a vendetta is going on? We must live with this then.

Yes, it makes a difference, if you go to the police because of a beaten child. But how many abuses are not counted and go on day by day, even the police is involved? The hungarian police just made a video, that it´s allegedly the ladies own fault when they get raped, when they dressed beautifully. It was said in the spirit of this, not word by word, but fortunatly many people protest against it. The police can´t help there, obiwan. We must take our own responsibility.
I don´t see, that KM is stopped with his actions and people realize or maybe even want to realize, what´s going on. For sure, i could be wrong with my impression here.  Wink But furthermore i have the feeling, that most people doesn´t want to see what´s going on, except a few ones. Or why is he still booked and has his followers? Has anything changed yet? But it´s not different with any other guru´s, so why i´m wondering! Question

You say you can understand me (really?) and in the same time you asking me what my objective is. I don´t understand that.
Not only that i and all my guests had been cheated, additionally i had to read lies spread by KM about me publicly. That is a double hit. And when i defend, you get confronted with the allegation, you want to have a vendetta. That´s the triple hit to the body. It´s a feeling of helplessness, because most people obviously want to talk about the alleged "highways", if you know what i mean.

dont-like-frauds


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Post by dont-like-frauds Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:04 pm

Neilos wrote:IDLF's, MN makes reference to various photo sequences in the report on PM4u. Is it possible to see these and where could I look?

At the best: Kai Mügge, Hanau. He says he is a genuine medium, so he has nothing to hide... Wink

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Post by Neilos Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:10 pm

?

Neilos


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Post by obiwan Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:13 pm

dont-like-frauds wrote:
obiwan wrote:
dont-like-frauds wrote:
obiwan wrote:

The points I am making are these:

1 Beating a child is a criminal offence. Get the police involved. Telling people you're  producing phenomena and taking money when you're not is fraud. Get the police involved. You're not the Police. Your analogy with child beating is a poor one because in that case the authorities would get involved whether or not the child backed it up or whether or not there was sufficient evidence to convinct. It's an unnecessary appeal to emotion imho.

2 I am not saying you're wrong to publicise your experiences. There is a difference between doing that - which you have done very well, and turning it into a campaign. You're perectly within your rights to do both. I think after a while it may look to some like you have a personal grudge (which I can understand). This may weaken your argument.

3 For what it's worth, as a dispassionate observer, I'd say there enough evidence out there now for a reasonable person to see what KM is up to. If people choose to ignore that, it's their problem. You may of course continue to do what you're doing, and I am not saying that's wrong, I am just asking what is your objective?

Hi obiwan,

the comparison was maybe not so good, but i didn´t have a better one in the short time. It was not an appeal to emotion. And it was something missing with the example: the father invited you in the beginning, to check and prove, that he´s doing well with his son.
KM shouts at MN, gets personal, behaves very rudely. No opinion about that behaviour? Only claim a vendetta is going on? We must live with this then.

Yes, it makes a difference, if you go to the police because of a beaten child. But how many abuses are not counted and go on day by day, even the police is involved? The hungarian police just made a video, that it´s allegedly the ladies own fault when they get raped, when they dressed beautifully. It was said in the spirit of this, not word by word, but fortunatly many people protest against it. The police can´t help there, obiwan. We must take our own responsibility.
I don´t see, that KM is stopped with his actions and people realize or maybe even want to realize, what´s going on. For sure, i could be wrong with my impression here.  Wink But furthermore i have the feeling, that most people doesn´t want to see what´s going on, except a few ones. Or why is he still booked and has his followers? Has anything changed yet? But it´s not different with any other guru´s, so why i´m wondering! Question

You say you can understand me (really?) and in the same time you asking me what my objective is. I don´t understand that.
Not only that i and all my guests had been cheated, additionally i had to read lies spread by KM about me publicly. That is a double hit. And when i defend, you get confronted with the allegation, you want to have a vendetta. That´s the triple hit to the body. It´s a feeling of helplessness, because most people obviously want to talk about the alleged "highways", if you know what i mean.

I understand you're angry with him. I don't understand what you are trying to achieve though.

If you are trying to publicise KM's fakery you have done that very well. If you are trying to stop him doing it, that's a matter for the authorities if it's a criminal offence. Otherwise you are campaigning against him. Vendetta is defined as: a prolonged bitter quarrel with or campaign against someone.

Now I am not saying this is wrong, I am merely pointing out that when KM says you've made your point, why not just move on, he has a point. Your message is now well-publicised. It's very clear.

You are perfectly within your rights to campaign against him but don't expect everyone else to share the extent of your concern.

The world is full of frauds. If he is dangling bit of 'whatever' and claiming it is a message from beyond then that's clearly wrong. It isn't however the crime of the century IMHO. He certainly looks from the reports like a pathetic fraud. His reaction to your accusations is to make claims about you - that's a typical tactic adopted in this type of row.

If people want to go to see him they will simply disregard your arguments. Anyone researching the guy will already see a lot of good material from Nahm, Braud and yourself. How much more energy is it worth expending on something like this? Of course that is a matter for your personal judgement but as an outsider I can't see that much more effort by you will produce more than it has already.

obiwan


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Post by dont-like-frauds Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:25 pm

Neilos wrote:?

Mügge has the photos, you´re asking for.

dont-like-frauds


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Post by Neilos Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:41 pm

Ok thanks. Notice that MN's report has been deleted off PM4U but Kai's recent one regarding the red lights remain. Selective censorship... very sad indeed.

Neilos


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Post by dont-like-frauds Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:51 pm

Neilos wrote:Ok thanks. Notice that MN's report has been deleted off PM4U but Kai's recent one regarding the red lights remain. Selective censorship... very sad indeed.

Yes, it is.... cyclops psychic mafia.

dont-like-frauds


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Post by Neilos Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:55 pm

Wouldn't go that far but it is not good. I have looked at Keene's book despite what I said and it is only good for a good for a laugh. Bears no resemblance to anything I have experienced in a séance room apart from one medium lol!

Neilos


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Post by dont-like-frauds Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:09 pm

Neilos wrote:Wouldn't go that far but it is not good. I have looked at Keene's book despite what I said and it is only good for a good for a laugh. Bears no resemblance to anything I have experienced in a séance room apart from one medium lol!

So you´re a lucky guy! sunny

dont-like-frauds


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Post by dont-like-frauds Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:16 pm

obiwan wrote:

I understand you're angry with him. I don't understand what you are trying to achieve though.

If you are trying to publicise KM's fakery you have done that very well. If you are trying to stop him doing it, that's a matter for the authorities if it's a criminal offence. Otherwise you are campaigning against him. Vendetta is defined as: a prolonged bitter quarrel with or campaign against someone.

Now I am not saying this is wrong, I am merely pointing out that when KM says you've made your point, why not just move on, he has a point. Your message is now well-publicised. It's very clear.

You are perfectly within your rights to campaign against him but don't expect everyone else to share the extent of your concern.

The world is full of frauds. If he is dangling bit of 'whatever' and claiming it is a message from beyond then that's clearly wrong. It isn't however the crime of the century IMHO. He certainly looks from the reports like a pathetic fraud. His reaction to your accusations is to make claims about you - that's a typical tactic adopted in this type of row.

If people want to go to see him they will simply disregard your arguments. Anyone researching the guy will already see a lot of good material from Nahm, Braud and yourself. How much more energy is it worth expending on something like this? Of course that is a matter for your personal judgement but as an outsider I can't see that much more effort by you will produce more than it has already.

Thank you for your words, obiwan.
Honestly: The sooner i´m out of that, the better it is!
You are so right!!!

dont-like-frauds


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Post by dont-like-frauds Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:40 pm

dont-like-frauds wrote:

Thank you for your words, obiwan.
Honestly: The sooner i´m out of that, the better it is!
You are so right!!!

..at least my son has something to laugh now. He has never seen his father making faces like this in the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ_iIGJIAz8 Very Happy

dont-like-frauds


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Post by Neilos Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:20 pm

Don't think it is luck DLF's. Why don't you set up your own circle and put your experiences to good use.

Neilos


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Post by dont-like-frauds Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:28 pm

Neilos wrote:Don't think it is luck DLF's. Why don't you set up your own circle and put your experiences to good use.

Yes, that could happen in the future, when i take the time. In the moment i´m sitting for someone else... Smile

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Post by obiwan Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:41 pm

dont-like-frauds wrote:
obiwan wrote:

I understand you're angry with him. I don't understand what you are trying to achieve though.

If you are trying to publicise KM's fakery you have done that very well. If you are trying to stop him doing it, that's a matter for the authorities if it's a criminal offence. Otherwise you are campaigning against him. Vendetta is defined as: a prolonged bitter quarrel with or campaign against someone.

Now I am not saying this is wrong, I am merely pointing out that when KM says you've made your point, why not just move on, he has a point. Your message is now well-publicised. It's very clear.

You are perfectly within your rights to campaign against him but don't expect everyone else to share the extent of your concern.

The world is full of frauds. If he is dangling bit of 'whatever' and claiming it is a message from beyond then that's clearly wrong. It isn't however the crime of the century IMHO. He certainly looks from the reports like a pathetic fraud. His reaction to your accusations is to make claims about you - that's a typical tactic adopted in this type of row.

If people want to go to see him they will simply disregard your arguments. Anyone researching the guy will already see a lot of good material from Nahm, Braud and yourself. How much more energy is it worth expending on something like this? Of course that is a matter for your personal judgement but as an outsider I can't see that much more effort by you will produce more than it has already.

Thank you for your words, obiwan.
Honestly: The sooner i´m out of that, the better it is!
You are so right!!!

Many years ago, having been deeply involved with a religious organisation I realised what a crock of s*** it really was. Initially I was very angry to have been taken in. I guess I was more angry with myself than with them. I kicked myself. In the end though it has sharpened my senses and approach to such subjects and helped me to analyse similar situations much more effectively.

I think ultimately this experience will make you a much more effective investigator of this subject, if you don't allow it to make you cynical.

I'd say your assessment is perfectly accurate. The sooner it is simply a learning experience for you and not so painful, the better it will be for you. There is no dishonour in refusing combat with an unworthy opponent.
Very Happy

obiwan


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Post by obiwan Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:43 pm

Neilos wrote:Ok thanks. Notice that MN's report has been deleted off PM4U but Kai's recent one regarding the red lights remain. Selective censorship... very sad indeed.

That tells you all you need to know about that website iMHO.

obiwan


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Post by mac Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:06 pm

obiwan wrote:
Neilos wrote:Ok thanks. Notice that MN's report has been deleted off PM4U but Kai's recent one regarding the red lights remain. Selective censorship... very sad indeed.

That tells you all you need to know about that website iMHO.

The owner might call it 'moderation'....  

I'll give him his due - he's consistent.  He consistently removes anything contentious, anything that's a challenge, anything that's not supportive of 'his' mediums.  Anything that calls it into question and seeks to discuss the circumstances.  Things that don't meet his personal criteria. Rolling Eyes

mac


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Post by obiwan Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:24 pm

mac wrote:
obiwan wrote:
Neilos wrote:Ok thanks. Notice that MN's report has been deleted off PM4U but Kai's recent one regarding the red lights remain. Selective censorship... very sad indeed.

That tells you all you need to know about that website iMHO.

The owner might call it 'moderation'....  

I'll give him his due - he's consistent.  He consistently removes anything contentious, anything that's a challenge, anything that's not supportive of 'his' mediums.  Anything that calls it into question and seeks to discuss the circumstances.  Things that don't meet his personal criteria. Rolling Eyes

Well, yes. Moderation. Just like the North Korean Press Agency Laughing

obiwan


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Post by Neilos Fri Dec 19, 2014 6:41 pm

Not read all of MN's report but what I have read is in my opinion very balanced and fair. I can fully understand him wanting to reply following KM's recent blog regarding the lights. KM's reply is more like a petulant childish rant and he makes no attempt to challenge the report. I for one will look forward to the outcome of SB investigation in 2015 and how it is concluded. Evidence of telekinesis and little else is is now my opinion, but I  hope I am wrong.

Neilos


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Post by Lis Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:34 pm

First, let me thank Bravo for posting the remarks made by Dr Nahm on PM4U and the response made by KM that it seems have now been deleted from that forum.

I have read the various responses here with interest. With regard to Obiwan's comments I must admit having a background in law and social welfare I am generally inclined to support the view that when someone is genuinely believed to be committing fraud the matter should be taken to the police. On the other hand, as a Spiritualist, and based on past experience, I am all too aware of how the police deal with, or more accurately, decline to deal with such complaints, unless the complainant has certain and substantial evidence that fraud has taken place.

While there is much circumstantial evidence to support the reasonable belief that KM has been cheating, at the very least, on some occasions, and possibly much of the time, as yet no one has actually caught him in the act of fraud, This makes it very difficult therefore for a complainant to be taken seriously, especially when the general attitude of the police to all psychic phenomena is that it is ALL fraud, all nonsense, and those who take it seriously are all gullible and credulous idiots.

The real issue in regard to fraud is whether KM is carrying out these acts of deception for personal and financial gain. And it seems he certainly is. My understanding is that in the UK the current legislation, introduced several years ago now, is not dissimilar to that current in the EEC. Perhaps those who are concerned about the activities of KM should be looking at the provisions of current legislation to see if there is an avenue that can be pursued in that direction.

Equally, I support the current approach of making public matters of concern regarding Kai Muegge. While Dr. Nahm has made his opinions "public" in the sense he has written a report published in a particular journal, I do not see that his report has had a wide circulation sufficient to suggest that his information regarding KM has become general public knowledge.

Certainly, his attempt to make his report known to those who subscribe to PM4U, a forum specifically dedicated to those people interested in physical mediumship, and therefore the very people who need to be made aware of the concerns, has been defeated by the position the owner of PM4U has taken by deleting all reference to it.

In Dr. Nahm again trying to express his concerns and point out the dishonesty in Muegge's blog I see him merely attempting to correct a distortion of the truth and to again attempt to alert physical mediumship adherents to the potential dangers of continued belief in the activities of KM. The response on the part of the PM4U forum owner is once more to censure the truth and prevent people from having information on which they could make their own assessment. They might have continued to believe in KM despite the evidence, they may not.

But Robin Foy is not prepared to let people make up their own minds about the matters of concern. He is making up their minds for them by his actions. His conduct does him no credit at all.

This forum has attempted to redress the balance by re-posting material in the hope that those on PM4U and elsewhere can read what has been written and be in a position to form an opinion, independent of Foy. Again, some may decide KM is not worth spending their time and money on, others may continue to believe in him. So be it. But, if in making these matters public we prevent just one person from being duped it will be a good thing to have done.

I, personally, do not see that in discussing this subject, nor indeed, 'don't like frauds' posts, as constituting a vendetta. If the discussion can be so defined then I would suggest it is, as a vendetta, a righteous one, for it is an attempt to reveal, to expose, the fraudulent activities of a person who is taking people's money under false pretences. Moreover, it is an attempt to prevent once again Spiritualism and mediumship from being associated with dishonesty and disreputable conmen (or women) who would hijack the phenomena for their own ends.

Lis
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