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Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

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Post by Lis on Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:33 am

I think I too am tending towards your conclusion, Mac.

It is always difficult, and so often things are capable of more than one interpretation, but in this case, it seems that the accumulating indications when viewed as a whole are quite disturbing. Doubly so, when I am reminded that it seems KM began his "experimental group" with the intent for it to form the basis for a documentary and he was willing to fake phenomena if no real phenomena occurred.

So one cannot help but ask - did no genuine phenomena occur and so the alternate option was put into action?

Lis
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Post by hiorta on Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:02 am

"The basis of mediumship is to prove the continuity of life"...Mark

Without this there is no Mediumship.
It is the entire purpose of Mediumship.

Our philosophy rests on on it.
Spiritualism is yet another theory without it.
hiorta
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Post by Lis on Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:21 am

Indeed, you are right Hiorta. Well said.

Lis
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Post by Admin on Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:26 am

Absolutely Lis & Hiorta
Admin
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Post by LeroyC on Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:42 am

Hi all,

Mark74 you are 100% correct here, the basis of mediumship IS to prove the continuity of life and I see no evidence of that in the Muegge seances. In fact its in short supply with many of the 'phenomena merchants'. One was a good friend of mine, and I am sorry to see his so called seances develop into farce, and that although I like the guy as a person he is 100% deluded in his assertion he is a physical medium !!.

One thing that always struck me with the Muegge set up was his blatant self promotion, and his assertion that he was following in the footsetps of the 'German physical mediumship tradition'...WHAT tradition ???. Germany was not world renowned for physical mediumship was it ?. I know Germany very well and have spent a good deal of time there, both in the north and south and my feeling is that the German populace would give short thrift to Muegges 'demonstrations'. If the Americans want to see these party tricks, then I feel sorry for them, as I am sure the majority in the USA have more sense.

Its a bit rich to link yourself to the 'greats of yesteryear' when the phenomena you are producing is the subject of so much controversy...Unfortunately it seems like another 'wanabee' may be biting the dust.

LeroyC

LeroyC


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Post by dont-like-frauds on Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:13 pm

...


Last edited by Lis on Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:39 pm; edited 3 times in total

dont-like-frauds


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Post by LeroyC on Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:26 pm

Hi All,

Well, 'don't like frauds' if his next 'show' is in Basel I wonder if my friend Dr Hans Shayer will be in attendance ??. He is no fool, and a very experienced investigator. Don't know if Hans has contributed on here, but would love his input as I have lost touch for some time now. I think the Basel group again will not put up with any messing about...it will be interesting to see. If I was them I would cancel it.

LeroyC

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Post by obiwan on Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:04 pm

mac wrote:

If it's not authentic, of course, it's simply fraud and trickery.
Or delusion... Very Happy

obiwan


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Post by mac on Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:49 pm

obiwan wrote:
mac wrote:

If it's not authentic, of course, it's simply fraud and trickery.
Or delusion... Very Happy

Yes I suppose he may genuinely be deluded - takes all kinds to make a world... Smile

mac


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Post by obiwan on Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:52 pm

mac wrote:
obiwan wrote:
mac wrote:

If it's not authentic, of course, it's simply fraud and trickery.
Or delusion... Very Happy

Yes I suppose he may genuinely be deluded - takes all kinds to make a world... Smile

Amen to that.

obiwan


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Post by Mark74 on Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:50 pm

I read this quote today in a spiritualist pamphlet, I think it is only fitting to mention it:

''For all that is secret will eventually be brought into the open, and everything that is concealed will be brought to light and made known to all.''

Mark74


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Post by obiwan on Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:21 pm

Mark74 wrote:I read this quote today in a spiritualist pamphlet, I think it is only fitting to mention it:

''For all that is secret will eventually be brought into the open, and everything that is concealed will be brought to light and made known to all.''

Hear hear.

obiwan


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Post by baumer7 on Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:00 pm

Hi Lis,
I'll find this out eventually (if he's coming to the U.S. to teach at my friend's center.) My "friend" wasn't too thrilled with me telling her she had her "head in the sand" in regards to this guy. I sent her the Nahm read & she said she felt sorry for the guy.(Nahm) WOW, did she get defensive!
Generally speaking, I can see people going to see the "show"...once. No need after that!
Regards,
Steve
baumer7
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Post by Lis on Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:38 pm

Hi Steve,

It is sad when people who are so enthusiastic about physical mediumship that they become blinded to all doubts or concerns expressed. Mr Nahm's report was about as fair and reasoned as any I have seen. If your "friend" is unable to discern that, they are truly deluding themselves. As the old saying goes, "There are none so blind as will not see."

Perhaps you are right that people may go once to see the "show" - which might be alright, if, that is, it has been appropriately advertised as that, a "show" - a performance - an entertainment - not the work of spirit.

Lis
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Post by Lis on Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:30 pm

It seems that 'don't-like-frauds' has removed all his posts because he did not like having one of them edited because it made claims and insinuated conduct about a person and an organisation that Admin considered inflammatory.

Personally, I am not sure what they think they have achieved by this action, other than appearing to undermine the legitimacy of their claims.


Lis
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Post by mac on Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:47 pm

Lis wrote:It seems that 'don't-like-frauds' has removed all his posts because he did not like having one of them edited because it made claims and insinuated conduct about a person and an organisation that Admin considered inflammatory.

Personally, I am not sure what they think they have achieved by this action, other than appearing to undermine the legitimacy of their claims.


Oh! That's a puzzle, Lis, but I'm also puzzled when you say "they" in connection with 'don't-like-frauds'.... Wasn't it just one person?

Seems he was overly-sensitive given the amount he'd already posted - editing to avoid problems is surely acceptable and what we sign up to accept anyway? Whatever, we've lost a lot of interesting information, the potential for more and his developing relationship with your website.

Takes all kinds....

mac


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Post by Admin on Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:51 pm

Lis wrote:It seems that 'don't-like-frauds' has removed all his posts because he did not like having one of them edited because it made claims and insinuated conduct about a person and an organisation that Admin considered inflammatory.

Personally, I am not sure what they think they have achieved by this action, other than appearing to undermine the legitimacy of their claims.


That is a very unfortunate action Don't Like Frauds has taken Lis. The evidence he had given about Kai and his purported "mediumship" was quite damning, indeed it was a compelling case but people cannot see it now. It may have appeared to DLF that nothing much was happening but then that is the nature of a forum. However, effectiveness cannot be judged by the number of people who contribute but the number who see it. There have been 5,000 visits to this thread which shows a phenomenal level of interest. I am also aware that some who may contribute are actually frightened of Kai and what he could do.

Sadly it seems to late to restore this and we will just leave the bits that we have in quotes on other people's posts. The loss of the pictures of Kai with "Spirit Lights" that are obviously the d'lite flights is, however, sad as it was a key piece in the writing to justify the words.

In some ways though DLF was on the verge of undoing his good work by extending his comments about others, still connected to Kai, in a way that was not justifiable on the evidence we have, indeed almost in an inflammatory manner which could lead people into adversarial positions where the facts become ignored. Had the material been presented simply and kept as factual as possible it would have been even more powerful. I can understand DLF's anger about being duped and treated adversely after several years in the Felix Group, especially as he had such a clear knowledge of the tricks Kai was using. He was very brave to post on here and it took much courage. I do hope his material will re appear but pared very much back to the provable factual issues which make his evidence against Kai so compelling.

Jim
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Post by mac on Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:58 pm

hiorta wrote:"The basis of mediumship is to prove the continuity of life"...Mark

Without this there is no Mediumship.
It is the entire purpose of Mediumship.

Our philosophy rests on on it.
Spiritualism is yet another theory without it.

That's what I've said repeatedly in the past but nowadays I'm left in no doubt that many reject such ideas and don't accept 'my' explanation of mediumship.  For them mediumship is altogether different and any explanation or definition isn't, of course, set in stone other than in Modern Spiritualism, something that many see as quaint and irrelevant if they're aware there's any such thing anyway!

mac


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Post by mac on Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:04 am

Admin wrote:
Lis wrote:It seems that 'don't-like-frauds' has removed all his posts because he did not like having one of them edited because it made claims and insinuated conduct about a person and an organisation that Admin considered inflammatory.

Personally, I am not sure what they think they have achieved by this action, other than appearing to undermine the legitimacy of their claims.


That is a very unfortunate action Don't Like Frauds has taken Lis. The evidence he had given about Kai and his purported "mediumship" was quite damning, indeed it was a compelling case but people cannot see it now. It may have appeared to DLF that nothing much was happening but then that is the nature of a forum. However, effectiveness cannot be judged by the number of people who contribute but the number who see it. There have been 5,000 visits to this thread which shows a phenomenal level of interest. I am also aware that some who may contribute are actually frightened of Kai and what he could do.

Sadly it seems to late to restore this and we will just leave the bits that we have in quotes on other people's posts. The loss of the pictures of Kai with "Spirit Lights" that are obviously the d'lite flights is, however, sad as it was a key piece in the writing to justify the words.

In some ways though DLF was on the verge of undoing his good work by extending his comments about others, still connected to Kai, in a way that was not justifiable on the evidence we have, indeed almost in an inflammatory manner which could lead people into adversarial positions where the facts become ignored. Had the material been presented simply and kept as factual as possible it would have been even more powerful. I can understand DLF's anger about being duped and treated adversely after several years in the Felix Group, especially as he had such a clear knowledge of the tricks Kai was using. He was very brave to post on here and it took much courage. I do hope his material will re appear but pared very much back to the provable factual issues which make his evidence against Kai so compelling.

Jim

You've presented the situation very clearly, Jim.  

I regret not having used the 'Quote' button when replying as that prevents subsequent deletion by the author but I had no reason to suspect he'd do what he's done.  I'd be surprised if he finds anywhere else to post such material so we can only hope he'll return and re-submit his information - won't be holding my breath in-between time though as that was an unhappy, angry and seemingly determined man. It's a shame he didn't realise he was among friends and only needed to be cautious that he kept to the demonstrable facts.

mac


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Post by obiwan on Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:33 pm

Hi Lis

I assume from your comment he told you that was the reason for removing them. Given that, I agree it's an odd thing to do. It does make me wonder about his thinking. Shame as it was an interesting series of posts however anyone posting on a forum knows that moderation is always a possibility. I'd say it's pretty light-touch in here tbh compared to some forums.

obiwan


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Post by mac on Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:47 pm

I can see why he might get the hump about being moderated if he hadn't understood why, but systematically going back and deleting material that had been well-received looks petulant.

mac


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Post by obiwan on Sun Nov 16, 2014 4:33 pm

mac wrote:I can see why he might get the hump about being moderated if he hadn't understood why, but systematically going back and deleting material that had been well-received looks petulant.

I agree.

obiwan


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Post by Lis on Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:42 pm

mac wrote:
Lis wrote:It seems that 'don't-like-frauds' has removed all his posts because he did not like having one of them edited because it made claims and insinuated conduct about a person and an organisation that Admin considered inflammatory.

Personally, I am not sure what they think they have achieved by this action, other than appearing to undermine the legitimacy of their claims.


Oh!  That's a puzzle, Lis, but I'm also puzzled when you say "they" in connection with 'don't-like-frauds'....  Wasn't it just one person?

Seems he was overly-sensitive given the amount he'd already posted - editing to avoid problems is surely acceptable and what we sign up to accept anyway?  Whatever, we've lost a lot of interesting information, the potential for more and his developing relationship with your website.

Takes all kinds....

Mac,

The use of the word "they" purely related only to one person, that is, 'don't-like-frauds,' not multiple people. Just the way I write sometimes using the word 'they' rather than the name. Sorry if I have confused anyone by this.

Lis
Admin


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Post by Lis on Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:16 pm

It seems that Mr Muegge has taken quite an exception to the article recently in Psychic News (and that paper's editor) which dealt with a talk Stephen Braude gave about his experimental work with the Felix circle.

For those interested Muegge's defence of his mediumship and criticisms of the article can be seen in his post of November 15, 2014 on http://felixcircle.blogspot.com.au/

I find his arguments for refuting the suggestion the lights and the 'ectoplasm' are false are most interesting.

Lis
Admin


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Post by Mark74 on Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:36 pm

Hi Lis, I read his article and it's laughable. Perhaps Kai Muegge should invite Psychic News to sit in on a seance and let them decide on the "SPIDER WEBS"

Mark74


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