Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

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Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by Lis on Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:15 pm

Sadly, the actions of the owners of the pm4u forum seem to have little regard for genuine discussion of the issues surrounding physical mediumship and even less regard for the truth. Michael Nahm's report was reasoned, fair and very thorough in its assessment of the concerns and the rationale for them.

To delete Nahm's comments, and deny him the right of reply to accusations made by Kai Muegge on that forum is unethical, discriminatory and a rejection of free speech. It is an action that highlights once again that the pm4u forum is a 'closed shop.' It isn't interested in the truth. The words 'psychic mafia' once again come to mind.

Thankfully, this forum does allow the opportunity for people to discuss, debate and discern. I thank Dr Nahm for making his report available. Let us hope that despite the actions of pm4u there will be some of its members who do want to read it and will take the time to think clearly about what was reported and form an unbiased assessment on its contents.

Lis
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Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by Admin on Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:11 am

True Lis and supported behind the PM4U wall are Kai, in regard to this material from Nahm which raises serious concerns about his work, we know there are issues surrounding Tom and Kevin at Moncabirol, Anders Akesohn who admitted fraud and the notorious Warren Caylor who so much has been reported about (see the forum's thread on him).

Yet in that forum questions suggesting a mediums is misbehaving are disallowed as negativity. In reality they should be regarded as a positive because it helps eradicate those who are not practising mediumship and have no intention of starting.

Any genuine mediums within that forum or included, through contact, with the potentially doubtful must surely be concerned about being tainted by association.
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Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by mac on Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:48 am

Although I agree with what's been said we should hardly be surprised at what happens there on PM4U.  Nothing has changed over several years in respect of concerns being expressed about fraud.  There are none so blind as those who refuse to see, or even open their eyes to look, whether fraud might be a possibility.  

But we can't shame them into doing what they're just not going to do. Maybe the writing was on the wall even from the time of the NAS and the NSSF?  As a beginner in the world of the spooks I expressed my concerns in PN that some were more interested in seeing vivid physical phenomena than they were in the message underpinning them.  

Perhaps I wouldn't have been far off the mark if I'd said that even those produced by 'mixed' physical mediumship would do?

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Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by mac on Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:46 am

Whatever we may think about the way that PM4U is moderated, the copy of a recent message from Robin Foy to an enquirer concerning life-after-death seems honest enough to me.  

I think that when discussing physical mediumship and phenomena some may lose sight of the purpose (in Spiritualism's terms) of the purposes of any form of mediumship.  The phenomenalists perhaps being the most likely ones?

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Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by Petco on Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:40 pm

Checking issues about Muegge in the internet, I came across his original article about producing ectoplasm in white light. It is now on his blog, but it was not when I posted the link from spiritarchive.org earlier. See

http://felixcircle.blogspot.de/2012/02/spontaneous-trance-state-produces.html

For some reason, Muegge has put it on his blog again. I appreciate this, because now one can see that there's something strange about this story. If you copy this posting onto your PC, e.g. into MS Word, you can read the original names of the eight photos included. They were not visible on spiritarchive.org.

IMG_0238
IMG_0239
IMG_0240
IMG_0251
IMG_0252
IMG_0246
IMG_0248
IMG_0250

As Nahm pointed out, this sequence doesn't match the description of events provided in the text.
Now, thanks to Muegge, we have direct proof that there's something fishy going on with his stories about producing ectoplasm.
Apparently, there has also been no progess with regard to producing it in white light, and I wonder when this will be the case?

I am thankful to the administrators of this forum who provide the opportunity to publish critical opinions about Muegge and the like. Very much needed.

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Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by Admin on Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:35 am

Thanks for that information Petco, very useful. Also thanks for the comments, it is important that we have a forum where we can allow critical examination of issues like this. Too many seem to just accept what they hear.
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Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by Admin on Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:42 am

Someone kindly supplied me with this; Kai's view of What is the value of Physical mediumship ex PM4U. Given the nature of the discussion about him it is worth a read.
"Spirits work with mediums and open physical portals:
- to show that they can influence, bent or even break the acclaimed laws of the physical 3D time
space, implicating the nature of physicality is not yet understood
- to show they can form matter from 'nothing' and even create human forms and manipulate it to a huge degree what implicates further questions about the nature of physicality down to the insight that for example spiritual healing through spirit entities can actively change matter amd even tissue from the human body
- to show that there are higher organized entities present that not only share resp transfer informational content via mediums but also show that they seemingly have an active access to creational processes in our time space
- to show that they can trigger physical ways of reunion with deceased human beings what displays their ability to influence time and space in a more palpable quality than simple messages, especially for attendees of seances
- you may ask why they operate in a way triggering more questions than answers - because it is in their nature to influence the human being to look beyond the obvious, to think the unthinkable because 'the occult', 'their' presence simply cannot be revealed to us in a way that enables full access and understanding because there is a dimensional barrier between us, our mental system and our abilities to comprehend are very much limited to the dimensional environment we are living in.
It is as if you wanted to reveal to 2dimensional comic book character the entire build of the 3dimensional, it doesn t work!
- but we can come closer with our understanding, find analogies and metaphors to come step by step closer to what we call creator - in that sense they are enunciators, announcing that the mystery of the conscious being within the universe has much more aspects and is much deeper than the positive sciences are usually claiming
- so to set us on that track of mind and awareness expansion the physical aspects, the physical entanglement in interdimensional interaction and communication is a undenieable, necessary, important and main aspect to eventually get an insightful better idea of the whole picture.
THATS WHY! "


So he has just re written the whole purpose to something new and rather strange which allows lots of variables.
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Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by Lis on Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:28 am

Reads like a load of gibberish to me. Perhaps it sounded better to Kai in his native language.

Lis
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Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by Admin on Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:34 am

Agree Lis and I thought the definition of Mediumship was to prove the continuing survival of the individual beyond the death of their physical body. I suppose you can add to that trance communications that have sufficient quality to strongly imply that Spirit is communicating.

This Kai version allows just about anything but proof of survival. When you link this to the problems identified by the researchers you can see why there are issues about his work.
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Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by mac on Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:23 am

A former contributor here then responded to Muegge's piece:

  "I bet I have asked a hundred people "what value is phenomenon in seance if that phenomenon is not evidence of the survival of death"? It is especially interesting to watch the Modern Spiritualists mace spin like tops and blow their heads off!

   LOL!

   I have sat in your seance, I have sat in others, this is exactly the conclusion I have arrived. If seance is only about survival evidence, then we can expect to spend 99% of our time wasted, waiting, waiting, waiting, for it especially with modern PM. Is spirit that stupid...or are we?"


I'd be interested in hearing which hundred people WJ put his question to and who the (quote) "...Modern Spiritualists mace..." were who "....spin like tops and blow their heads off."
    LOL indeed.....   Laughing

Both he and Kai Muegge have a way with words but at least Muegge can claim that English isn't his first language.


Last edited by mac on Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:53 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by LeroyC on Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:40 pm

Hi folks,

Well, some interesting stuff again on here. I have to agree about PM4U. To my mind it lost its way a long time ago. the funny thing is I cannot undertand what the hell Robin Foy is doing or is up to.

Quite some years ago he appeared to me to be quite a reasonably guy. I must wholeheartedy agree with Liz's comments on this matter.

Admin, you have put it in a nutshell, I quote:

"I thought the definition of Mediumship was to prove the continuing survival of the individual beyond the death of their physical body"

Yep, so did I !!. But the likes of Herr Muegge obviously think this is secondary concern. I can only conclude that the investigatiors looking at his mediumship have done a thorough job.

On a personal level I have never sat with the guy, nor do I particularly want to. These mediums should realise that once found out in fraud ( or at least the distinct possibility ) then their reputation forever is tarnished...Anders Akkesson is a prime example of this.

I don't altoghether hold with the theory of 'they can be genuine at times' ( proposed by Richet in the past in his examination of Palladino ), and by others. It may well be the case, but it ALWAYS raises doubts.

LeroyC

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Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by mac on Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:53 pm

Physical mediumship isn't a particular interest for me but from what I've read recently, and for some time before, it seems plain that individuals have different expectations of it.  

I see mediumship as intended for certain purposes but solely, or primarily, to produce phenomena isn't one of them.  But we can not be prescriptive - we feel one way and others feel another.  That's taken me quite some time to accept.

As for 'mixed mediumship' (I think that's the term) - where a practitioner produces genuine, paranormal phenomena at times but at others plainly is cheating - I am persuaded by what I've heard.  

I don't like what I hear but historically it's hardly unknown and I doubt that we're likely to see an end to the situation.  

mac


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HAVE you not notice this ????????? its Fake !

Post by carrsam on Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:09 pm


Hello I have read all threads and looked in detail at the photos and found something that no one has spoken about .... Look at the photos again .
look at the close up of the mouth, there is no gap in the front teeth!!!!! but look at others the medium has a gap in his teeth ...
But the medium says this is his mouth, but its different . If he has misleading us with this what else??????
kind regards
Sam

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Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by Admin on Sat Sep 13, 2014 1:12 am

I will come back to this pint from Sam but visiting his site I find he is a great supporter of the notorious Warren Caylor. http://felixcircle.blogspot.de/2008/05/warren-caylor-challenges-his-critics.html an old posting but still there.
Now at the end of this is a comment about warren offering a test séance to Psychic News. Now everyone knows how long ago this was and the fact that he opted out. http://www.spiritualismlink.com/t91-warren-caylor

Scary that Caylor, Muegge and Akesohn are such respected members of PM4U, I also understand there are strong reservations about the Moncabirol group. What must people like Scott Milligan and David Thompson feel about being seen as closely associated with them (remember we are told that Hans Bender came trough in a séance David held where Kai was present).


Last edited by Admin on Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by LeroyC on Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:00 am

Scary indeed admin. I sat with the aforementiond Caylor once....NEVER AGAIN !!!

LeroyC

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Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by carrsam on Sat Sep 13, 2014 10:28 am

Hello I have not sat in Scott milligan nor David Thompson's yet . But deeply disappointed with warren's and Kai was even more so ....
Why would you put on your web site these pictures with the teeth different and say its you. But people believe it .
I do not care if the seance is done in light or dark as long as there proof of life after death .....but of course light would be better .
Sam

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Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by baumer7 on Sat Sep 13, 2014 12:05 pm

Hello,
    Nice to see you all again:-)! I hope you haven't forgotten me...I have so far been to a Caylor Seance, A Yuwipi Healing Ceremony(Warfield Moose), A trance demonstration (Audrey Wiley) & now a Muegge Seance.  I have not yet seen anyone that has provided actual evidence. I still look forward to that day. Psychic mediums have, Physical Mediums, not. There has been no doubt that I have seen Physical Phenomena.  IMO, It is a question of something being better than nothing.  In all of these cases I am glad I went once & feel no need to see it again:-)  I'll keep allowing myself opportunities, though.  As far as Kai is concerned...I spent about 6 hours with him last Saturday night.  3 hours he was asleep & in his "quiet room." That was during the time that he was in trance during the seance.  Hans Bender, his spirit guide was in control during that time.  Anyway, the one thing I came away with that was positive this time was viewing the extrusion of ectoplasm from the medium.  I sat to his left, next to one of his controls...maybe 3 feet from his mouth...actually he stepped on my foot a number of times...that's how close he was.  So...I actually saw him pull the ectoplasm from his mouth & pile it on the floor in front of him.  It had a musky smell of something that came from inside someones body(to be nice about it)...I'd say about 10 feet of it.  It was moving & undulating in front of me like it was alive, which, of course, it is...(this was done in pretty decent red light...I could see well, no problem.)  He pulled it up in a column at one point (sort of like pulling Turkish taffy) & it slowly solidified enough to hold it's form like that.  He also touched the woman to my right's head with it...it was cold & wet.  I felt her head right after he did this. Besides this...there was an apport dropped into a girls hand from Kai/Hans' hand...also right in front of my face...I was right there...it definitely happened.  It fell from his outstretched flat hand into hers, about 2 feet from my face.  Also spirit lights...green shooting around the room.  Also white contained balls of flashing light..verrrrrry verrrry bright!  Taps on the ceiling & walls..."touches" on the heads/shoulders/bodies of people in the circle.  A glowing snakelike thing that crawled in front of me & into the circle very slowly, then shot up & out of sight...that's about all I remember...Afterwards & before we all met & spoke to Kai.  He's a sweetheart!  You couldn't help but love him.  Just a nice person.  I definitely didn't agree with him when discussing what is expected from PM.  He sort of mocked (in a laughing manner) that his (The German Method)...was THE way & he even said "how much can you here of ? saying 'hello, things are great over here, Uncle ? says hello'' etc....Anyway, the ectoplasm demonstration alone, was well worth it!  In conclusion, I'd say...he is genuine (I searched him before along with his clothes & led him into the room...& he was "controlled" on either side...we all held hands through the whole thing...no one could have caused any of the phenomena, but spirit...) Forgot to mention, spirit hands on a glowing square in the middle of the room along with glowing ping pong balls moving around...(in total blackout...only thing in red light was the apport & the ecto)
Any & all comments are welcome...you guys (here & in the SCR) gave me my "roots" in what to strive for!!!
Regards,
Steve
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Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by carrsam on Sat Sep 13, 2014 12:25 pm

Hi steve
Did you have to leave the room at the end on seance with the ectoplasm still on the floor ?

Also have you seen the photos from is site ? Regarding the difference in his teeth ?

carrsam


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Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by mac on Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:13 pm

interesting account Steve - thanks

mac


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Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by baumer7 on Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:19 pm

Hi Mac...how goes it:-)?
Hi Carrsam...Ecto still on floor when walking out.  He has no gap in his teeth that I recall.  When are the pics from that you see a gap?  Actually...I just went to Facebook to see if I could see a recent pic...& I did...no gap...maybe I'll post it for you.


Last edited by baumer7 on Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by baumer7 on Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:28 pm

If you go here there's a pic from 4-6-14...no gap.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10201839474135663&set=t.100001929019291&type=3&theater
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Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by mac on Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:36 pm

baumer7 wrote:Hi Mac...how goes it:-)?
Hi Carrsam...Ecto still on floor when walking out.  He has no gap in his teeth that I recall.  When are the pics from that you see a gap?  Actually...I just went to Facebook to see if I could see a recent pic...& I did...no gap...maybe I'll post it for you.

I'm OK thanks and just filling time nowadays. The link's here mouth and the last two photos show a small gap between the two front teeth - I hadn't seen it until it was pointed out.

mac


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Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by mac on Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:37 pm

baumer7 wrote:If you go here there's a pic from 4-6-14...no gap.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10201839474135663&set=t.100001929019291&type=3&theater

I don't 'do' Facebook so I can't get to the page... Crying or Very sad

mac


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Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by carrsam on Sat Sep 13, 2014 10:27 pm

The link show gaps in teeth and the close up shows no gap and look to be a females mouth .the photos are suppose to be taken one after the other .
So it's fake

carrsam


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Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by Petco on Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:07 am

Here’s more about Muegge.

Those who read the Nahm paper

http://www.anomalistik.de/images/stories/pdf/sdm/sdm-2014-08-nahm.pdf

know that Muegge not only removed the posting about ectoplasm in white light from his blog after he was confronted with the cobweb. See my recent postings. Muegge also removed two postings from his blog that seemed to show how he used a prop called D’Lite Flight after Nahm has asked him if he had ever used it.

Nahm provided an active link on web.archive.org to one of these removed postings. To view this posting scroll down at

http://web.archive.org/web/20130414135033/http://felixcircle.blogspot.de


Checking the net I found that the second of the removed Muegge postings was conserved by a web.archive snapshot as well. See

http://web.archive.org/web/20110811133923/http://felixcircle.blogspot.com/


Six photos show a red light.
The first one shows this pulsating light moving in an arc around the area of Muegge’s right thumb similar to Fig. 3 in the Nahm paper. Click on the photo in this posting for an enlarged view and you’ll see Muegge’s right hand and thumb.
Photos 4 and 5 show how this light rises from Muegge’s left hand.

Now compare all these photos to youtube clips that feature the D’Lite Flight, e.g.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84B2QWIqD0U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30Le62OMR6c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VQZI_DOfrw


See any difference?
I don’t.

Petco


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