Have you seen this?

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Re: Have you seen this?

Post by LeroyC on Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:40 am

Hi everyone,

Again, on my high horse I think. Interesting stuff in the Felix circle, BUT phenomena without the evidence is a waste of time. I have had this out with Kai, and again, where is the QUALITY of the evidence???. That is what Braude ought to be concentrating on.

I am not too concerned about the darkness. Some physical mediums just cannot function in white light, where as others are happy in red light and on occasion in the light.

LeroyC

LeroyC


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Re: Have you seen this?

Post by MU!! on Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:54 pm

LeroyC wrote:Hi everyone,

Again, on my high horse I think. Interesting stuff in the Felix circle, BUT phenomena without the evidence is a waste of time.

I cannot count in my lifetime the number of people who have come to the realization of the power and potential evidentiality of physical mediumship that were initially attracted to the phenomena.

MU!!


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Re: Have you seen this?

Post by obiwan on Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:16 am

I think it depends what one means by evidence. Phenomena alone might demonstrate a controlling intelligence separate from the medium and also control of matter and other abilities beyond the norm of the physical world we perceive. As such they would certainly not be worthless if observed in a controlled environment.

They wouldn't of course, even if genuine, provide evidence of survival per se. I think perhaps also people look for different things, clearly such phenomena are of interest to many who may subsequently decide they need to see more evidential phenomena having had their appetites whet, so to speak.

obiwan


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Re: Have you seen this?

Post by Admin on Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:30 am

I can understand why people get excited by the phenomena. My six monthly spoon bending session always causes a lot of fun, especially as over 25% of attendees always get the spoons to bend (Indeed I have to go to the Op Shop and buy some more). Table tipping seems almost to a have a cult following and people get so engrossed they fail to realise it is not proving survival.

I actually think its the theatre that draws people to these modern physical mediums even though they fail to produce evidence at all or limited evidence often less good than a decent mental medium. Certainly table tipping is a mind numbingly slow form of communication and over half the "communicators" at physical sťances are hard to take seriously.

It may draw some people into taking an interest in real mediumship, however, it is as likely to increase the ranks of people who think its all just rubbish. I prefer the work of those who just quietly go about their work without the show of the, now professional, physical mediums.
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Re: Have you seen this?

Post by Jane Lyzell on Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:30 am

I have a problem with the physical mediumship being showed in public- why do the mediums need to have it in the spotlight ?. it is a shame and just Ego.. yeti
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Re: Have you seen this?

Post by bravo321uk on Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:49 am

I am sorry Jane,, But I disagree with you.
In Fact.. I think you are missing the purpose of mediumship by saying that.
I have demonstrated Transfiguration twice.. Both times with permission and under direction from spirit.
The 1st time we were allowed 15 people there, the 2nd we were allowed 20. Including our circle 40 people have seen Transfiguration.. out of that 40,, 20 have sat and been reunited face to face with there loved ones... out of the 40 every1 seen the faces and every1 shared in the emotion of those that were reunited.
Both of these occasions were at the end of last year in spiritualist churches..
I took from both only £10 to cover my fuel and a cup of coffee and piece of cake after, any moneys that were raised from entrance went to the church.
Now what you are saying is that these people that attended did not deserve to have this... that we should keep it hidden away from them. that the small grains of truth that was shown in these demonstrations should never of been shown and that we should have kept it hidden in our home circle.
Well I am sorry you are entitled to your opinion.. but in my mind it is wrong.
Also to say that I am driven by ego cos i do this.... well that is your opinion also... and again not one that I agree with.. within mediumship I am driven by joy and love..
I have watched you the last few days be very opinionated and very loud about it.... and that is fine... But where is the Joy and the love?
I have sat here a bit apprehensive about answering these posts as I dont want to be drawn into it.... But it saddens me when I see this type of stuff.
We can all talk about quality within all forms of mediumship for sure... But surely the way we improve quality within any thing... is to nuture and develop thoughts and minds... not to attack and force people away into the background..




bravo321uk


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Re: Have you seen this?

Post by Jane Lyzell on Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:44 pm

bravo321uk wrote:I am sorry Jane,, But I disagree with you.
In Fact.. I think you are missing the purpose of mediumship by saying that.
I have demonstrated Transfiguration twice.. Both times with permission and under direction from spirit.
The 1st time we were allowed 15 people there, the 2nd we were allowed 20. Including our circle 40 people have seen Transfiguration.. out of that 40,, 20 have sat and been reunited face to face with there loved ones... out of the 40 every1 seen the faces and every1 shared in the emotion of those that were reunited.
Both of these occasions were at the end of last year in spiritualist churches..
I took from both only £10 to cover my fuel and a cup of coffee and piece of cake after, any moneys that were raised from entrance went to the church.
Now what you are saying is that these people that attended did not deserve to have this... that we should keep it hidden away from them. that the small grains of truth that was shown in these demonstrations should never of been shown and that we should have kept it hidden in our home circle.
Well I am sorry you are entitled to your opinion.. but in my mind it is wrong.
Also to say that I am driven by ego cos i do this.... well that is your opinion also... and again not one that I agree with.. within mediumship I am driven by joy and love..
I have watched you the last few days be very opinionated and very loud about it.... and that is fine... But where is the Joy and the love?
I have sat here a bit apprehensive about answering these posts as I dont want to be drawn into it.... But it saddens me when I see this type of stuff.
We can all talk about quality within all forms of mediumship for sure... But surely the way we improve quality within any thing... is to nuture and develop thoughts and minds... not to attack and force people away into the background..




It is ok to dissageree
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Re: Have you seen this?

Post by Jane Lyzell on Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:47 pm

bravo321uk
Twice isent public spotlight , its the way it shuld bee - but I hope you dont build a hole hompage whit youre succes in demonstrating - thats ego!.

Offcource we shuld demonstrait but not as it has become....
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Re: Have you seen this?

Post by MU!! on Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:47 pm

Admin wrote:I can understand why people get excited by the phenomena. My six monthly spoon bending session always causes a lot of fun, especially as over 25% of attendees always get the spoons to bend (Indeed I have to go to the Op Shop and buy some more). Table tipping seems almost to a have a cult following and people get so engrossed they fail to realise it is not proving survival.

Jim, this is indeed the flip side of the phenomena argument that it blocks or distracts from the spirit's primary purposes of providing evidentiality of the continuity of life.

I actually think its the theatre that draws people to these modern physical mediums even though they fail to produce evidence at all or limited evidence often less good than a decent mental medium. Certainly table tipping is a mind numbingly slow form of communication and over half the "communicators" at physical sťances are hard to take seriously.

It may draw some people into taking an interest in real mediumship, however, it is as likely to increase the ranks of people who think its all just rubbish. I prefer the work of those who just quietly go about their work without the show of the, now professional, physical mediums.

I can only say that first you must have water then you draw the horse to the trough. The horse then decides what to make of it, what to do with the water and the trough. Better to have some good and some bad decisions and a watery trough than no decisions and no trough invho.

MU!!


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Re: Have you seen this?

Post by MU!! on Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:49 pm

Jane Lyzell wrote:I have a problem with the physical mediumship being showed in public- why do the mediums need to have it in the spotlight ?. it is a shame and just Ego.. yeti
What if Christ had chosen a private, elite demonstration of his service?

MU!!


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Re: Have you seen this?

Post by Mark74 on Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:57 pm

MU!! wrote:
Jane Lyzell wrote:I have a problem with the physical mediumship being showed in public- why do the mediums need to have it in the spotlight ?. it is a shame and just Ego.. yeti
What if Christ had chosen a private, elite demonstration of his service?

Very good Very Happy

Mark74


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Re: Have you seen this?

Post by Jane Lyzell on Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:25 pm

MU!! wrote:
Jane Lyzell wrote:I have a problem with the physical mediumship being showed in public- why do the mediums need to have it in the spotlight ?. it is a shame and just Ego.. yeti
What if Christ had chosen a private, elite demonstration of his service?
Then Christ vill shosen the ones invitet to Basketball
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Re: Have you seen this?

Post by MU!! on Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:14 pm

"Then Christ vill shosen the ones invitet to Basketball

That's MU!!'s point, Jane, Christ chose public demonstrations including a public crucifixion and if you want to believe in the literacy of the New Testament, a public reincarnation (or resurrection or nonectoplasmic materialization - I have no idea which it was No ).

I don't see this as "ego" or glory-seeking, I see this as necessary just as necessary that some, not all, physical mediums, should display to as many as they possibly and safely can. Especially in this day and time of Britten's Third (Final?) Phase of Spiritualism, the age of understanding, where there is so little {evidential} PM. Sad









Last edited by MU!! on Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

MU!!


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Re: Have you seen this?

Post by Jane Lyzell on Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:46 pm

MU!! wrote:[quote="Jane Lyzell]"Then Christ vill shosen the ones invitet to Basketball
That's MU!!'s point, Jane, Christ chose public demonstrations including a public crucifixion and if you want to believe in the literacy of the New Testament, a public reincarnation (or resurrection or nonectoplasmic materialization - I have no idea which it was No ).

I don't see this as "ego" or glory-seeking, I see this as necessary just as necessary that some, not all, physical mediums, should display to as many as they possibly and safely can. Especially in this day and time of Britten's Third (Final?) Phase of Spiritualism, the age of understanding, where there is so little {evidential} PM. Sad


[/quote]

No Christ was chosen how to shosent to se him - not publick- there vere invited to see his demonstarion - the crucifixion wasent his that was they ho dident understand hees cal.....


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Jane Lyzell


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Re: Have you seen this?

Post by obiwan on Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:39 pm

Jane Lyzell wrote:
MU!! wrote:[quote="Jane Lyzell]"Then Christ vill shosen the ones invitet to Basketball
That's MU!!'s point, Jane, Christ chose public demonstrations including a public crucifixion and if you want to believe in the literacy of the New Testament, a public reincarnation (or resurrection or nonectoplasmic materialization - I have no idea which it was No ).

I don't see this as "ego" or glory-seeking, I see this as necessary just as necessary that some, not all, physical mediums, should display to as many as they possibly and safely can. Especially in this day and time of Britten's Third (Final?) Phase of Spiritualism, the age of understanding, where there is so little {evidential} PM. Sad



No Christ was chosen how to shosent to se him - not publick- there vere invited to see his demonstarion - the crucifixion wasent his that was they ho dident understand hees cal.....



What the hell has Jesus got to do with this? Very Happy

obiwan


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Seen this?

Post by MrFree on Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:39 pm

http://felixcircle.blogspot.de/2012/09/feg-survival-evidence-and-chains-of.html

(yes, its me!)

Smile

MrFree


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Re: Have you seen this?

Post by MrFree on Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:42 pm

Don t forget, we re coming from another tradition than the spiritualistic!

And Yes, we are developing!

And MU, you are disrespectful in your frequent comments in regards to my capability to write in english! (Foy, Prescott, Spiritualismlink)

It would be nice to see you answer this time in GERMAN!

Peace!

MrFree


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Re: Have you seen this?

Post by MrFree on Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:47 pm

See for example the mediumship of Rudi Schneider, which is our tradition!
We have another cosmology like the regular spirutalist.
Survival is a topic but also many others!

The Seances are extremely rich in phenomenolgy down to communication and evidence, not always striking, but more and more often!


MrFree


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Re: Have you seen this?

Post by MU!! on Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:19 pm

Jane Lyzell wrote:No Christ was chosen how to shosent to se him - not publick- there vere invited to see his demonstarion - the crucifixion wasent his that was they ho dident understand hees cal.....
Jane, I don't know which of the 2,500+ versions of the New Testament you are reading but none I have would support your claims.

MU!!


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Re: Have you seen this?

Post by MU!! on Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:24 pm

MrFree wrote:Don t forget, we re coming from another tradition than the spiritualistic! And Yes, we are developing!


What tradition might that be? Foyism?

And MU, you are disrespectful in your frequent comments in regards to my capability to write in english! (Foy, Prescott, Spiritualismlink)

It would be nice to see you answer this time in GERMAN!

Peace!
Mr.Free, whomever you might be, you pay too MUch attention to the pseudoskeptikal and purposefully malintentioned comments over at Skeptiko and not enough attention to the real MU!!.

Piece!

MU!!


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Re: Have you seen this?

Post by MU!! on Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:45 pm

MrFree wrote:See for example the mediumship of Rudi Schneider, which is our tradition!
We have another cosmology like the regular spirutalist.
Survival is a topic but also many others!

When considering the validity of a physical medium, survival evidences are the only topic. The rest is theater. Of course, this is the argument put forward by every non-evidential physical medium I have run across.

The Seances are extremely rich in phenomenolgy down to communication and evidence, not always striking, but more and more often!
You may well be evidential and I have read testimony from a few who agree (assuming this is Muegge). Good for them.

Braude will clear you of fraud. Braude however will not assure that you are evidential to the cause of survival proofs. Ultimately, you will need to have much more public sittings, many more public testimonies and, in this day and time, perhaps examination using new technologies. A few on this forum will require that you materialize spirit in full light. I'm not one of those but considering it has been accomplished many times before, I can understand their point of view.

Until then, you may claim whatever you wish and you may do as you wish. Don't be continually surprised, though, when there exists such an incredible number { docuemneted and historied} of fully developed evidential materializing mediums; these mediums who had been exhaustingly investigated. People who are familiar with these mediums, including having sat with them, and those who understand physical mediumship, continue to be less than impressed.

I wish you the best of luck most sincerely and if there ever was anyone -recently- who stood strongly and publicly for proper and evidential physical mediumship than MU!! I do not know who that might be.

Approcahing 225,000 Views PM and Survival Threads 11Mar2013

MU!!


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Re: Have you seen this?

Post by MrFree on Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:44 am

No, dear Mu! Robin Foy I only know personally for 5 years or so! I sit for development since I am 15! For 20 years! So its not Foyism!

The tradition I am talking about is the German Spiritism!
And the German Spiritsm has other guidelines, is more phenomenologically oriented, more pragmatic, is not searching in every mediumship attempt for Survival evidence, has other modi operandi, asf!
Survivalism plays an important role, but there s simply no institutionalized religion behind the purpose of mediumistical production!

Moreover myself, and the ego is always a kind of mirror of the spirit team, is raised far off any spiritualistic background.
The shamanistical is one of my main bases - and the cosmology attached!
the cosmological human being of the third millenium, entangled in a rich creational and multidimensional universe!

Thats why we re different to the english mediums.

Alone the fact, that the medium in our case is permanently hold during the phenomena is a result of the German experiences with Physical Mediumship.

So maybe some will be surprised here, but there is Physical Mediumship OUTSIDE of english spiritualism.
And the Germans were once one of the leading countries in the scientific investigation of physical mediumship! And materialization mediumship! For example we do differ between Full and Partial Materialisation - both controlled by spirit teams...! this differentiation is not very common in english physical mediumship. Either you are producing Full Forms or you are more or less worthless in the eyes of many.
I mean we accept that.

But nevertheless, in regards to Survival evidence the FEG has achieved some interesting results! I linked the article above that lists some of our more striking Survival Evidence Cases.

I only always ask myself, why do people not use our different approach to learn more about the phenomenology, the personality of guides, the modus operandi of the trance and the exciting phenomena, that bend and stretch our physics quite a bit!

The people that say, its too early for the FEG Spirit Team to demonstrate in public, do they only go to seances where Full Materialisations in Red Light are wandering around?
What? There are none of such kind?
That must be the reason why so many judge from in front of their screens - about things they have never seen (incl. the value of FEG sessions)!

How many people here are talking about the FEG and neither do know me nor have ever sat with the FEG?
But that s okay, I also would talk about something like the FEG's productions, but I myself would be very careful with my public judgements, as long as I talk about things I haven t experienced yet!

I hope i could express myself in my mish-mash broken english (yes I am mortally offended) Smile)

We send Love Vibes from Germany

MrFree


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Re: Have you seen this?

Post by Jane Lyzell on Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:14 am

MU!! wrote:
Jane Lyzell wrote:No Christ was chosen how to shosent to se him - not publick- there vere invited to see his demonstarion - the crucifixion wasent his that was they ho dident understand hees cal.....
Jane, I don't know which of the 2,500+ versions of the New Testament you are reading but none I have would support your claims.
it thepend on how you see things
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Re: Have you seen this?

Post by MrFree on Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:19 am

MU!! wrote:

When considering the validity of a physical medium, survival evidences are the only topic. The rest is theater.

But dear Mu!, when an organism extrudes masses of an unknown substance that moves and breaths and builds forms of human character, hands, feet, ears, heads - or when from a slight mist at the ceiling suddenly a glowing object falls from and flys erratically through the room, meanwhile the spirit control explains the patterns behind - how can you say this is theater!?

These are the most rarest mediumsitical phenomena!
You need to remind please, that Spiritualism is in Europe a english specialty.

So there is mediumship besides the search for Survival! Maybe not for the english Survivalist, but for the German Spiritist in every case!

Imagine, in Germany is no institutionalized or public interest in that survival question, and thats the way people are raised here!
Only those who are interested in Parapsychology or are looking for the mysteries of Altered Consciousness States, MEdiumship, Trance Rituals, History of esoteric waves in Europe, Near Death Phenomena asf. come in contact here with these questions!

Can you see the differnece with German Mediums!?
Nevertheless I naturally consider our work at least enriching the mediumistical scene and hope those who sat with us are of the same opinion! Evil or Very Mad

Peace


MrFree


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Re: Have you seen this?

Post by Jane Lyzell on Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:49 pm

Mrfree
Hawe seen youre blogg ant the photos on it - what is the purpus for you to put them oute like that ?

//Jane
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