Re: Is Spiritualism really evolving?

by Left Behind Sun May 13, 2012 5:36 pm

petal34 wrote:I think one of the most interesting messages I received was a description of my living room.
The reading focused on three pictures that were hanging on the wall.
One of hubby in uniform,one of the two of us taken together and one of his army badge.
Now that was a very evidential reading. Perfect.

Indeed!

by zerdini Sun May 13, 2012 6:11 pm

Left Behind wrote:
petal34 wrote:I think one of the most interesting messages I received was a description of my living room.
The reading focused on three pictures that were hanging on the wall.
One of hubby in uniform,one of the two of us taken together and one of his army badge.
Now that was a very evidential reading. Perfect.

Indeed!

A good psychic can pick that up. Rolling Eyes

Nothing to do with mediumship which is cncerned with evidence of survival.

by mac Sun May 13, 2012 7:56 pm

I hesitated before I put cyber pen to paper. I won't get involved in the obvious personality clash but I feel my own perspective has relevance....

As KK's posting directly followed my own, and appeared to relate in part to issues I had raised, I'm assuming that in part it was a response to what I'd written. It also went on at undue length about issues which I didn't find relevant but that's an observation and not a criticism - other contributors can be equally verbose and go off at tangents from the subject of a thread. Then followed 15 lines about Gordon Higginson - a long and detailed paragraph. The following is based on what I experienced.

I'm not a churchgoer but I made a point of going to experience Gordon Higginson's mediumship in Mansfield's Spiritualist Centre; it was quite a few years ago now but I was experienced enough by then to judge what I saw. Perhaps I should not have gone with preconceived ideas but I'm only human and I expected something better. I saw only that one demonstration so I will not claim it was in any way representative but there were distinct similarities to KK's claim for what he regularly saw.

Mr Higginson's mediumship left me deflated and disappointed. Not because of his mediumship but because of the nature of the communications and who they were for. KK says: "....many of his messages were simply chats to old chms about mutual aquaintances." and that's exactly what I witnessed in my church. I was terribly disappointed that the majority of the time he gave to mediumship was given over to members of the congregation who clearly knew Mr Higginson well. For much of the demonstration his attention was focussed on these individuals at the back of the hall. It was obvious (even to me) that they were accustomed to that situation. The messages were delivered slowly even though their content was simple and it left the remainder of the congregation - and me - sitting waiting for them to end and for other members 'getting a look in'. That's how it felt and looked....

The actual details of these messages was plainly in line with what had been received at other times, messages of simple encouragement which were obviously follow-on messages for members who were anyway well aware of the message of survival et al. That might have been fine in a small circle situation but at such a special demonstration by such a special medium it seemed (to me) altogether inappropriate. In that congregation there almost certainly would have been many who might benefit far more - especially so from the attention of such an unusually accomplished medium - than the 'regulars' at the back of the hall. I was intensely disappointed that so few of the main audience received messages....

KK says: "...to some extent is a cliquey us and them ness about it with the us who are known insiders getting the vast majority of messages. Yes, KK, that's what I concluded all that time ago although I stress it was my only time. I vowed at the time that I would not go to another similarly organised event.

by petal34 Sun May 13, 2012 8:21 pm

zerdini wrote:
Left Behind wrote:
petal34 wrote:I think one of the most interesting messages I received was a description of my living room.
The reading focused on three pictures that were hanging on the wall.
One of hubby in uniform,one of the two of us taken together and one of his army badge.
Now that was a very evidential reading. Perfect.

Indeed!

A good psychic can pick that up.

Nothing to do with mediumship which is cncerned with evidence of survival.

You missed an 'o' out of concerned..... Rolling Eyes

by KatyKing Sun May 13, 2012 8:38 pm

Don't shoot the messenger George. GH was a good man who lived for the SNU it was his life from what I heard and saw and he managed its decline as well as any since.. He just wasn't the wonder worker that he is being mythologised into. He was a good working medium as we all try to be and that's never perfect..
The personal stuff I'll leave to your conscience.

by KatyKing Sun May 13, 2012 8:47 pm

Well better a good psychic than a useless medium to quote Colin Fry in a recent PN article.
If I got all three pics Joan it certanly wouldn't have been psychic [having the psychic ability of a plank].
:-)

by zerdini Sun May 13, 2012 10:18 pm

KatyKing wrote:Well better a good psychic than a useless medium to quote Colin Fry in a recent PN article.
If I got all three pics Joan it certanly wouldn't have been psychic [having the psychic ability of a plank].
:-)

If that's your view then you don't know what evidence of survival is.

by zerdini Sun May 13, 2012 10:20 pm

petal34 wrote:
zerdini wrote:
Left Behind wrote:
petal34 wrote:I think one of the most interesting messages I received was a description of my living room.
The reading focused on three pictures that were hanging on the wall.
One of hubby in uniform,one of the two of us taken together and one of his army badge.
Now that was a very evidential reading. Perfect.

Indeed!

A good psychic can pick that up.

Nothing to do with mediumship which is cncerned with evidence of survival.

You missed an 'o' out of concerned.....

Would you like me to point all the errors in your posts? - that was a typing error!

by zerdini Sun May 13, 2012 10:24 pm

KatyKing wrote:Don't shoot the messenger George. GH was a good man who lived for the SNU it was his life from what I heard and saw and he managed its decline as well as any since.. He just wasn't the wonder worker that he is being mythologised into. He was a good working medium as we all try to be and that's never perfect..
The personal stuff I'll leave to your conscience.

I don't know who is doing the mythologising - all I know from personal experience is that his mediumship was exceptional unlike most we see today.

My conscience is clear, Peter.

by KatyKing Sun May 13, 2012 10:27 pm

Thank you George. As ever, I bow to your experience.

by KatyKing Sun May 13, 2012 11:19 pm

Far too many years ago as a young, idealistic and consequently exhausted lecturer I was once taken aside by a wise old Prof who shared the following...
"People who believe that they know everything can't learn anything, so don't knock yourself out trying to teach them".

by Admin Mon May 14, 2012 3:15 am

Of course Gordon's mediumship was teh subject of debate too and I understand there was a period when Maurice Barbanell would not allow mention of him in PN as I understand although as then assistant editor of PN I suspect only Roy Stemman could confirm or deny that. Psypioneer ran some very interesting pieces concerning that issue.

Of course I only saw him work once, at Ilford Spiritualst Church and he gave Lis ana excellent message. Gordon did know Lis but not well however Lis is sure that he did not know the specific information that came in that message. He did an amazing amount for Spiritualism but I sometimes wonder why the SNU became so disfunctional after him.

I think it is fair to discuss such issues, especially where others may have seen Gordon work and formed a different view to Z who was, as he says, a good friend of Gordon's

We have a very real risk of creating Saints in Spiritualism if we are not careful, whereas I prefer to regard them all as Torchbearers. Some contributing more than others, all of them human and fallible in some ways.

by hiorta Mon May 14, 2012 6:24 am

Spiritualism is healthier without 'saints' who are, without exception, home made.

I've had some linkage with G.H. over the years and was instrumental in staging big propaganda meetings in Glasgow in the 1980s, working with Derek Robinson of LAD, featuring Gordon and an other.
Gordon was always an electrifying presence on a Spiritualist platform and on the admittedly not too many occasions I saw him, he did all that was asked of him. His evidence was superb, even towards the end of a long tour when he was physically tired.
He often served Ayr SNU Church, with the late Margaret Nicholson.

Indeed, I received his very last public message in Scotland on the Monday evening. I believe he died either next day or the one following. His evidence was again superb, giving information from Vi Whyte a grand old Healer at Somerset Place, Glasgow who had passed in her 80s a few years earlier. This was correct in every detail including a matter unknown to anyone else that I was privileged to have helped her with.

by Admin Mon May 14, 2012 6:27 am

Thank you Hiorta, its good to hear that, ties in with Lis's message. It also expresses the same type of thoughts Z had conveyed without the rather unnecessary added venom that went with it.

by KatyKing Mon May 14, 2012 11:03 am

GH is on record as bringing trough the details plus service number of a post war RAF pilot killed in a flying accident. He could not have knownthat infoormation because the recipient was not sure what the number was until it was later confirmed by the MoD. Now that IS evidence of the highest order. The downside of hagiography is - that by claiming that the good and the great of yesteryear were better than they were AND so much better than what is around today - that we denigrate the current movement and our hard working mediums who continue to bring evidence, sometimes more successfully than others, as did our forebears. Continuation not compartmentalisation is the more open way forward. It's all gift and that from Spirit and without Spirit it is nothing.

by mac Mon May 14, 2012 11:33 am

"We have a very real risk of creating Saints in Spiritualism if we are not careful, whereas I prefer to regard them all as Torchbearers. Some contributing more than others, all of them human and fallible in some ways. "

nicely put, Jim Smile

by mac Mon May 14, 2012 11:34 am

KatyKing wrote:GH is on record as bringing trough the details plus service number of a post war RAF pilot killed in a flying accident. He could not have knownthat infoormation because the recipient was not sure what the number was until it was later confirmed by the MoD. Now that IS evidence of the highest order. The downside of hagiography is - that by claiming that the good and the great of yesteryear were better than they were AND so much better than what is around today - that we denigrate the current movement and our hard working mediums who continue to bring evidence, sometimes more successfully than others, as did our forebears. Continuation not compartmentalisation is the more open way forward. It's all gift and that from Spirit and without Spirit it is nothing.

well said, KK

by mac Mon May 14, 2012 11:42 am

As with many situations in life, we'll reach our own views on them and sometimes they'll be very different from those of others....

What I saw left me disappointed whereas the experiences of another were altogether positive. Doesn't mean either individual is right and the other wrong, only that they saw things differently.

by Admin Tue May 15, 2012 1:03 am

I think there are always many questions with mediumship Mac, some days a medium can be hot some days they can be cold. Atmosphere, weather conditions, health, energy levels. Sometimes for me the issues of all the things I am trying to do get in the way especially those days where I am chairing the meeting, doing the prayers, healing meditation, notices address and then teh mediumship.

I do suspect that sometimes some mediums are really good but if its not working rather than say, like the famous demo Albert Best cancelled, sorry folks I have nothing tonight, a get out of jail card gets used instead.

by petal34 Tue May 15, 2012 5:30 am

I'm in full agreement with that,Admin.

by KatyKing Thu May 17, 2012 12:04 am

That's hard work Jim. We have someone chairing who picks the hymns [two as a rule] does the welcome,domestics,reading if there is one and notices plus sorts out the raffle at the end. All we do is opening prayer,philosophy if it is a formal meeting then dem and closing prayer. No philosophy usually on mid weeks or Friday sessions just a dem. I don't think I'd be on top form having to chair and dem but can see where in a missionary situation you'd have to do that sometimes. I take my hat off to you.
Is there much published from when EHB was doing missionary work in Oz Jim?
I'd be interested in seeing it. Missionary work here seemed to be along the lines of satllite circles from one established group meeting in a home in another village and a society slowly growin from that. Or by someone opening a Lyceum for kids and then involving parents and family. That seems to have been a northern workng class pattern for growth. The London causes seemed to grow entirely seperately and in the beginning at least were more upper middle class in membership than those early Yorkshire & Lancashire groups.

by Left Behind Thu May 17, 2012 4:22 pm

Here in the USA the NSAC has a Missionary department. I'm not sure what they do, but they're supposed to get in touch with me.

by KatyKing Thu May 17, 2012 7:45 pm

Pointless comment deleted

by KatyKing Fri May 18, 2012 9:45 pm

Mine too Joan.
Been thinking in between dozing off. Spiritualism has been constantly changing not sure about evolving just changing. The pioneers wouldn't recognize a modern stage dem and we'd not want to go back to calling over the alphabet until table tilted to indicate the right letter. No great demand for trance lecturers now either.

by petal34 Sat May 19, 2012 6:22 am

KatyKing wrote:
Mine too Joan.
Been thinking in between dozing off. Spiritualism has been constantly changing not sure about evolving just changing. The pioneers wouldn't recognize a modern stage dem and we'd not want to go back to calling over the alphabet until table tilted to indicate the right letter. No great demand for trance lecturers now either.

Like life today,up one minute and down the next.
I would love to see Spiritualism come back as in the old days.
Hopefully in the future.
Smile

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