Question from the Teachings of Silver Birch

Hi everyone

Happy New Year to you all.

I was given The Teachings of Silver Birch book as a Christmas present. I have found the book to be very inspiring and I feel it is very appropriate for me at this moment in time. I needed to re-aquaint myself with the guides wise words. However, there are a couple of things that I can't quite get my head around. In the book it states that Silver Birch was asked a question regarding capital punishment (such as hanging). He was asked if the hangman would receive punishment for the acts which he had carried out. Silver Birch was alleged to have said that if the hangman knew what he was doing was wrong then he would be punished...if he wasn't aware that what he was doing was wrong then he wouldn't be punished. I was under the impression that we punished ourselves and that there was no punishment awaiting us when we pass over apart from the way we judge ourselves? I understand that we will vibrate on the frequency that matches our evolution but I wouldn't have classed this as a punishment. Is punishment the correct term to be used? Did Silver Birch state this?

Also another thing that has confused me is when Silver Birch was asked about what determines when a person dies he allegedly answered a person leaves the physical body when a natural law has been broken. I can accept that with regards to some passings but not all. Especially not that in a new born baby. What natural law have they broken? Their parents may have broken a natural law but surely not the baby...is this what he means? Also with regards to an elderly person does that mean that if we never break a natural law then we won't pass over to the world of spirit? Unlikely I know but is that what it means?

I also understand that Silver Birch has said that we are to dismiss anything that doesn't sit right with us and I will do this but I needed to discuss these issues. I am also aware that Silver Birch stated that learning is eternal and nobody reaches perfection. I can understand this also but I just find the words that I am reading to contradict what I have read previously...especially with regards to punishment. Also Silver Birch discusses re-incarnation and how our current earthly life is connected to our last incarnation? He discusses how people who have found themselves being killed through say an earthquake had their fate determined because of what happened in their previous life? My mum always joked saying I must have killed a saint in my former life but is she right? Is this how our lives are mapped out for us?

I am still pondering on the issue regarding how a broken natural law determines when we die. Does this mean that our death is predetermined before we even come into this life. Does Silver Birch mean that the broken law may not result from this incarnation but from your last one? mmmmm
Regards

Mandy xx

Hi Mandy

Here's my two pennorth.

As far as punishment is concerned I don't think SB mentions who, if anyone, carries out any punishment. If it is the case that no 'person' visits punishment upon us then it seems to me that even now if I do something that is wrong I may feel the shame (internal punishment?) and suffer the consequences for it (external punishment?). If I don't realise what I am doing is wrong I may not suffer the shame (no internal punishment?) but may suffer the consequences anyway, perhaps without understanding why or maybe I can chalk it down to experience but don't feel ashamed of it.

On breaking Natural Law. The comment you mention from SB doesn't say the baby broke the law, simply that the law has been broken. Perhaps it has been broken by someone else or in some other way?

Anyhow, just my thoughts. Happy New Year.

obiwan wrote:Hi Mandy

Here's my two pennorth.

As far as punishment is concerned I don't think SB mentions who, if anyone, carries out any punishment. If it is the case that no 'person' visits punishment upon us then it seems to me that even now if I do something that is wrong I may feel the shame (internal punishment?) and suffer the consequences for it (external punishment?). If I don't realise what I am doing is wrong I may not suffer the shame (no internal punishment?) but may suffer the consequences anyway, perhaps without understanding why or maybe I can chalk it down to experience but don't feel ashamed of it.

On breaking Natural Law. The comment you mention from SB doesn't say the baby broke the law, simply that the law has been broken. Perhaps it has been broken by someone else or in some other way?

Anyhow, just my thoughts. Happy New Year.

Hi Paul

You are correct SB doesn't mention who will carry out the punishment or in what form the punishment will come in. The way you have put it makes sense to me and I would like to think that is what SB meant.

With regards to babies it has left me pondering. I have looked at it from the same view point as yourself in that the natural law may have been broken in some other way but then I start thinking about previous discussions on this subject whereby others have stated that a child may only have a short earthly life because it has learned the lesson which it needed to learn in this incarnation just by being born or the loss of the child has given the parents the experience of losing a child which is something that they needed to learn to enable their soul development. I am not saying that any of these scenarios is correct but it is one of them situations where I end up going round in circles...I thought I had my personal answers but they have gone out the window again lol.

I think we need to focus on an important fact here.

No two Spirit Guides tell us the same thing, one will not believe in reincarnation when another will not. One will tell you of self atonement while another may hint on a punishment from upstairs. You are right about one thing, and the one thing that they all say, Accept what fits with you and reject what doesn't.

I'm afraid I don't put any of them on a pedastle, but I take their teachings on board. But also consider that these teachings were brought about/given at a time when the enlightenment of the human race, spiritually, was not what it is to-day. We have moved on and forward and (Got no-where ) no, we challenge more and ask questions more, so the old answers are no longer appropriate or don't give us enough.

So you will find contradiction even within the same teaching from the same guide, sad and disalusional, but sadly a fact.

Does this make sence?

Taken From Michael Tymn's Blog.

After his Death FW Myers, said, through the Mediumship of Geraldine Cummings, and referring to the period immediately after his death as 'Hades', that this period varies from individual to individual, but generally after the soul is greeted by deceased loved ones it experiences a state of semi-suspended consciousness and sees fragmentary happenings from the life just lived. Myers explained that he is detached and apart, judging the individual who participates in these experiences, judging his own self with the aid of the light from above.

He further explained that while this self judgng is taking place, the etheric body is loosening itself from the "Husk" and when the judgement is completed, generally after three or four days, the soul takes flight, passes into a world of illusion and resumes full consciousness.

Imperator, guide to The Rev. William Stainton Moses, was asked "was there a general judgement"? The answer was "NO", but then went on to to say; "The judgement is complete when the spirit gravitaes to the home it has made for its self". Hecontinued, "That the sentance it imposes upon itself is based on the character it has built up by its earthly acts".

Just different ideas from different spirits or guides to ponder

I have read a good deal of SB and whether or not one accepts that he is who he claims to be, I haven't seen any internal contradictions. Perhaps you could tell me what they are Zandorf? I agree that other 'guides' differ in detail. As far as I can see, SB specifically didn't want to be put on any kind of pedestal as you quite rightly observe. I am not sure what you mean in saying that no two guides say the same thing - either there is some form of reincarnation or there isn't - what other positions are taken?

mandy wrote:I start thinking about previous discussions on this subject whereby others have stated that a child may only have a short earthly life because it has learned the lesson which it needed to learn in this incarnation just by being born or the loss of the child has given the parents the experience of losing a child which is something that they needed to learn to enable their soul development. I am not saying that any of these scenarios is correct but it is one of them situations where I end up going round in circles...I thought I had my personal answers but they have gone out the window again lol.

Hi Mandy
I guess one can take a lesson from even the most painful experience, it doesn't mean that is why the event happened though.

[quote="obiwan I guess one can take a lesson from even the most painful experience, it doesn't mean that is why the event happened though.[/quote]

Hi Paul

No it doesn't mean that is why the event happened...I am just trying to get my head around what I am currently reading in relation to what I have previously discussed...I am trying to understand why things happen but it seems that the more I look for answers the more I go round in circles.

Regards

Mandy xx

Zandorf wrote:Taken From Michael Tymn's Blog.

After his Death FW Myers, said, through the Mediumship of Geraldine Cummings, and referring to the period immediately after his death as 'Hades', that this period varies from individual to individual, but generally after the soul is greeted by deceased loved ones it experiences a state of semi-suspended consciousness and sees fragmentary happenings from the life just lived. Myers explained that he is detached and apart, judging the individual who participates in these experiences, judging his own self with the aid of the light from above.

He further explained that while this self judgng is taking place, the etheric body is loosening itself from the "Husk" and when the judgement is completed, generally after three or four days, the soul takes flight, passes into a world of illusion and resumes full consciousness.

Imperator, guide to The Rev. William Stainton Moses, was asked "was there a general judgement"? The answer was "NO", but then went on to to say; "The judgement is complete when the spirit gravitaes to the home it has made for its self". Hecontinued, "That the sentance it imposes upon itself is based on the character it has built up by its earthly acts".

Just different ideas from different spirits or guides to ponder

Hi Frank

Thanks for your views. I previously understood that both these situations were correct in that we are shown what wrongs we have done in our previous incarnation and then we will move on to the place which fits our vibration...I suppose I just didn't want to accept the term punishment.

In this book that I am reading SB was asked about his opinions on war and the loss of lives through war and in the book it states that SB said

" They must not shortern life. That is against the Law. And, if they do that, they must pay the price."

What is this price? Is it the internal punishment of the soul or is it determined by where we arrive at? Previously SB said that if the person who takes anothers life (such as in a war) and they carried out the act not knowing that what they were doing was wrong then there wouldn't be any punishment. It has given me a lot to think about.

Regards

Mandy xx

mandy wrote:Hi everyone


Also another thing that has confused me is when Silver Birch was asked about what determines when a person dies he allegedly answered a person leaves the physical body when a natural law has been broken. I can accept that with regards to some passings but not all. Especially not that in a new born baby. What natural law have they broken? Their parents may have broken a natural law but surely not the baby...is this what he means? Also with regards to an elderly person does that mean that if we never break a natural law then we won't pass over to the world of spirit? Unlikely I know but is that what it means?

SB goes on to discuss how no person has the right to take anothers life and that there have been too many souls who have returned to the spirit world needing help because their lives have been ended too soon...SB states

"how dare the children of the earth interfere with the divine law that the spirit should drop from the body when it is ripe"

How does this comment relate to his earlier words of people pass over to the world of spirit when a natural law has been broken? A natural law has been broken because mankind has broken it by killing. Does SB mean that there are other factors that decide when and how we pass over...I am struggling to get my head around this one.

Regards

Mandy xx

oops sorry deleted because duplicated post.

Hi Mandy
Perhaps it's the definition of Natural Law that causes a problem. For example, and I am only musing here, suppose a baby dies, what could be the cause:

a) it was killed by another person (natural law broken by killer);

b) it was born with a disease acquired from the mother by infection (this is trickier, presumably viruses and bacteria are a normal part of creation, if this is so, then maybe the baby's inability to counter the disease indicates that its immune system is compromised - it dies because in some way it was not viable physically perhaps - this would be natural law in its normal practical effect perhaps, or it may be because the mother could not or did not take sufficient care - Mum breaks Natural Law, or someone else who could have offered help but didn't breaks Natural Law)

c) it was born with a congenital problem due to some difficulty encountered during pregnancy (this may either be due to lack of care by mum (breaking Natural Law) or some outside contamination (someone else breaks Natural Law) or pure back luck that some genetic abnormality was passed on (this in itself may be a result of Natural Law broken in the past by someone else or simply due to the fact that we are not perfect and Natural Law in its operation removes physical bodies which are not viable).

Just a few thoughts.

Hi Mandy, Paul and Frank,

Good discussion on a subject that always worries me. I think my view is like Frank's accept what seems right and reject what you cannot relate to. In terms of SB I have my own problem which relates to the recording Silver Birch Speaks which I have linked from You Tube to the forum. In this SB is against organ transplants and cites their failure to be effective in support. It is also my understanding that he was against blood transfusions in an earlier record.

When I found this discrepancy I suspended plans to use the recordings until I had worked through this issue. To me I cannot accept either of these two points or the issues which you are discussing here.

We should also, however, be aware that even in the deepest trance control can, at times, slip and the mediums subconscious mind and knowledge interfere. I am aware that raising this issue in relation to SB and Maurice Barbanell may almost seem heretical to some. However, in honesty it may be a better explanation than others about why discrepancies occur.

Even deep trance material needs to be vetted by your mind in a discerning way to ensure that the thoughts are not blindly accepted.

As to the young children it is a difficult area but one idea I have been given is that some Spirit's wish to explore the experience contained in such a short and physically distressing life. For the parents if we accept the concept of a journey to develop the Spirit the awful experience is one which may be a major growth for them, sadly the emotional trauma and lack of understanding of a Spiritual Purpose will mean it is too often something that blights their life.

Concerning a return to Spirit because a Natural Law has been broken there are many alive who breach almost every Natural Law and live to a very ripe old age.

It is a very difficult situation and too often I find that the purported wisdom from trance requires a lot of thinking about. With Imperator and SB we definitely have a higher level of material from dedicated ethical Mediums so a greater amount appears acceptable to me.

Best wishes in 2010

Jim

Hi Jim

Best wishes to you too.

I recall reading SB's comments on Blood Transfusions. Interestingly Blood Transfusions and Organ Transplants are not risk-free by any means as any surgeon will tell you - there is a risk involved and much research into replacing both as a treatment, so there is certainly some validity in SB's (or whoever it was talking) opposition to it. Many choose not to accept this advice (I don't think would give it a second thought myself depending on the situation or where in the World I was) which is their choice, as it is with eating meat which SB also isn't in favour of. This doesn't make what SB said wrong and as you rightly point out SB doesn't make a big deal about it or suggest that it will be a massive problem if we do it as far as I can see.

I cannot see how raising questions about the teachings of a being such as SB whose identity was never determined and who cannot now be questioned could be considered heretical or unacceptable by any thinking person.

Your last comment regard breaking of spiritual law confused me. I don't recall SB saying that because a Natural Law was broken death would always result directly or in any time frame, but rather that premature death was as a result of Natural Law being broken. It surely does not logically follow from SB's statement that if a Natural Law was broken death will follow. SB did point out that we look at these things from a very restricted perspective.

I read quite a bit about purported contradictions in SB's sayings and would be very interested to see what people have found to be contradictory as I have read many of the books and have so far not noticed any contradiction (I am not saying I think he is correct in all things or even that he is/was what others and himself claim either).

Fence Sitter

SB did not purport to 'teach' us on how best to live, but related his findings, experiences and the understanding taken from them, which was then vetted by the larger group of which he 'was only the mouthpiece'. The 'carrot and stick' approach was conspicuously absent.

Being a Spirit Guide must be an impossibly difficult task, always needing to avoid giving premature information to those who are not yet ready for it and so being an unwitting cause for confusion, our minds seemly geared naturally to mainly material matters. When this was done in a closed group, the 'status' of the sitters would be well known, but think of the huge range of thought once it went into print.

Unlike Religion, which claims to be from 'on high', the SB group gently leads the mind to realise what it can take from the discussion.
SB did say that we can only view a small corner of the Great Spirit's unbounded tapestry from our earthly perspective and advises that we reserve judgement until we ourselves view it from Spirit. I think he went on to say that we would be overjoyed, beyond imagining, by the absolute perfection of the vista.

As I understand it, Natural Law constantly and automatically kicks in as we go through Life, gaining or losing a little, literally by the minute. I wouldn't bother about it - just live!

hiorta wrote:Natural Law constantly and automatically kicks in as we go through Life, gaining or losing a little, literally by the minute. I wouldn't bother about it - just live!

That sounds very sensible advice to me.

Hi everyone

I am leaving for work in a minute. I will respond to your posts later this evening when I return...Paul I am not knocking the teachings of SB in any way because I have learned alot from his teachings. I have noted a few contradictions in the book which I am currently reading and I will post them for you later...maybe it is my understanding of them that is wrong and I would be grateful if someone could explain any misunderstandings on my part. That is why I made this post because if I can't get my head around something I need to ask questions before I disregard something the same as I need to ask questions before I take something on board.

Thanks for all your input.

Mandy xx

Hi Mandy
I wouldn't mind if you were knocking SBs teachings - I have no vested interest in them other than that they appear to make sense to me. That doesn't mean they are right. I would not be surprised to find contradictions, I just haven't seen them so feel free to let me know what they are

You don't need to explain your motivation for asking questions - I think it is perfectly clear
Kind regards
Paul

Phew I am shattered so please forgive me if this doesn't make sense lol.

After re-reading the text when SB states

"They leave your world because a law has been broken. It is only through the bitter crucible of experience that the children of earth will learn, in time, the lessons of the Great Spirit".

This really had me thinking because it didn't make sense at all to me but after re-reading it was clear that SB was answering a question about why do they go so soon sometimes? So according to SB the natural law is that the children of the earth are only to pass over when they have learned their lessons BUT their lives can be taken sooner because of the breaking of a natural law...do you think this applies to illness also? Does this mean that a person who dies of cancer say may pass over without having the experiences which they should have had because a natural law has been broken which has made them ill. Sorry slightly off topic but I feel I need to sort out these things in my mind before I can move forward. This changes my whole thought process regarding our time span on earth. I used to believe that if you were murdered like my nan was it was for a reason (I don't know what reason) but I believed it was meant to happen for differing reasons such as my nans spiritual progression or lessons that the attacker needed to learn but according to the teachings of SB it is a case of my nans time wasn't ready and she died because the man broke a natural law by attacking her. It wasn't meant to happen it just did. I sort of have my head around this now and I am glad I have asked the questions.

I haven't got time to go through my book again because I am up early in the morning but another question that I had ( it isn't a contradiction like I said earlier so sorry SB for that) but a query. What is the difference in spirit possession/obsession and trance? I thought all mediumship was done via the mind. A sitter asked SB whether it is necessary for a spirit to enter the sitters body when doing trance work and he answered not all the time. I didn't think it was possible for a spirit to enter a persons body? SB later on in the book discusses how the soul is not physically inside the body...not situated between the heart and the lungs. I just wandered how can a spirit enter a persons body? Can it?

Regards

Mandy xx

Thanks everyone for your responses and thanks for baring with me. I get there in the end but it just takes a little while lol. Paul in short I think my last post just repeated what you had said about natural laws and it makes sense now.

Hi Mandy
Thanks for your comments . We are discussing subjects which are of interest to all of us and to be honest I doubt anyone here would claim to have the full picture so your questions raise interesting points.

I am pretty sure the possession, obsession, trance thing has been answered in another thread but I can't find it - it might have been on the SCR.

As far as question relating to where the soul is and how it works; I suspect that often the answers given are limited by the fact that our own experience is 3-dimensional (ok 4 if you include 'time') and it is therefore perhaps difficult for those 'on the other side' to explain in a way that makes sense in our physical world. I don't think the soul (assuming it exists at all) would necessarily be physically anywhere in our 3-dimensional terms as it would not be a physical thing in the same way that either we or objects in our world exist. From my own limited understanding, the soul or spirit or whatever one calls it isn't the type of thing that could be contained in a physical structure such as our body although I presume it must be associated with it in some way to facilitate control of the body.

Thanks Paul

It was my understanding that the soul couldn't be contained in a physical structure and I discussed this with a young man who is in need of some direction with his mediumship. After reading the words from SB I needed to reassure myself that I had given the young man the right information. Sometimes I just need to go over old ground especially when I read words that question my understanding of things. Right off to work now.

Speak later.

Thanks again

Mandy xx

Hello Many and all of the other people that have joined in this topic. I was so please to find this forum. I am a Spiritual Healer in my second year of studies and just before xmas 2012 I had a reading from a trusted Medium. She was asked by Silver Birch (or possibly one of his soul group members) if he could speak through her. She declined at the time but has agreed that during the next few weeks she will allow him to use her to speak to me. Apparantly they are working with me and this does not surprise me at all as I am being pushed so very hard with my work. I look forward to coming back to report what happens xx

amhealing wrote:Hello Many and all of the other people that have joined in this topic. I was so please to find this forum. I am a Spiritual Healer in my second year of studies and just before xmas 2012 I had a reading from a trusted Medium. She was asked by Silver Birch (or possibly one of his soul group members) if he could speak through her. She declined at the time but has agreed that during the next few weeks she will allow him to use her to speak to me. Apparantly they are working with me and this does not surprise me at all as I am being pushed so very hard with my work. I look forward to coming back to report what happens xx

I don't think this is likely to be Silver Birch. When Maurice Barbanel passed away, he was SB's medium, I am pretty sure he indicated that he would move on and would not be doing this work.