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Post by mac Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:25 pm

You're way more knowledgeable about Spiritualism's philosophy and guides' teachings, Jim, so may I ask you your thoughts?

I often find myself discussing 'exit points' from life without really being fully persuaded by the notion. Exit points are said to be times planned before incarnation at which one's animating spirit may decide to withdraw and bring to an end one's incarnate life. They are said to be parts of any individual's 'life plan'.

It's an attractive thought but I am left wondering where/when these twin notions of 'life plans' and 'exit points' originated and whether anything similar was ever taught by the guides of old. Might they simply be New Age ideas that came from incarnate sources in recent decades?


mac


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Post by Admin Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:17 am

Attractive I agree but like the "life plan" unproveable. There are many of the ideas shunted out that we are unable to prove. I have become very disenchanted with the "life plan" concept. I may have been involved for 37 going on 38 years now and been convinced about it once but not now (I may also have accepted reincarnation but experience and logic has suggested this is overrated as well, not forced but by choice). If you think on the way life unfolds how could you be expected to fulfil some pre destined plan for your future life; I believe now that this life is just an experience from which we take what we can. Think of it it means that for the plan to work you chose your parents, you chose knowing the birth parent would give you up at birth and the adopted parents would be awful, that there was going to be a Pandemic which would affect your choices, a war, a car crash a plane falling from the sky. Everything that happened in the world would have to fit the life plan for everyone so everything is predetermined; across all the planets and stars of the universe.

I think we have just hit one of humankinds egotistical areas. After all we see humanity as of prime importance across all of Gods creations, the centre of that universe (until well into the middle ages in maps). If you roll it back and say that the universe is, if anything is, the key part of the attention of that Creative Intelligence, the Great Spirit, which created it, then I believe that we, who appeared as an accidental by product of chemical activity which created evolution, probably remain well away from the centre of that beings attention.

Its a point I have been pondering on and indeed my Guide is pushing me to think about. Almost heretically I have come to the conclusion that a part of that evolutionary process has enabled us, through the overall energy of the Spirit which created our universe, imbuing all of it with a Spiritual essence, to continue life beyond death as the individual we were. It leaves lots of other questions hanging around unanswered. Additionally it, like all the other hypothesis is incapable of proof. However, my guide pointed out that even as a spirit, for over a thousand years, they could not comprehend God let alone try to explain.

There is one positive to this, or negative if you want to be told God's plan is peace and harmony, humanity is in charge of what happens here, whatever we do and its consequences, are ours to shape and to benefit from or to suffer the consequences of. We should never blame God for our misfortunes, some are the natural impact of the chaos that is created by natural forces ( I would include pandemics in that) however, far to many of our problems are caused by the actions or inactions of mankind on a personal, national, religious and world wide basis.

It also explains why God just allows these things to happen, why there is no intervention. We have free will to act as we wish, my only question is, if we were to reach the point where we could and were about to destroy the planet would God act against us to protect his creation.

Probably no surprise that those who have lived a physical life and watch from the other side now try to help us be better humans. Maybe in the years of emptiness God did create Angels to monitor the universe, possibly working in some way alongside the Spirits of our ancestors but once again proof is lacking. The only proof I have is in the continued existence of those loved once who have passed over through the evidence I give via my mediumship.

One point my Guide has made is that at some stage mankind needs to revise their view of God just as they have realised the reality of planets, a round earth and evolution. In the nineteenth century the ties of traditional religion would have prevented this but now they have loosened its time to start because the reality may benefit mankind.

I said I am truly turning into a heretical infidel Mac.
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Post by mac Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:17 pm

Admin wrote:Attractive I agree but like the "life plan" unproveable. There are many of the ideas shunted out that we are unable to prove. I have become very disenchanted with the "life plan" concept. I may have been involved for 37 going on 38 years now and been convinced about it once but not now (I may also have accepted reincarnation but experience and logic has suggested this is overrated as well, not forced but by choice). If you think on the way life unfolds how could you be expected to fulfil some pre destined plan for your future life; I believe now that this life is just an experience from which we take what we can. Think of it it means that for the plan to work you chose your parents, you chose knowing the birth parent would give you up at birth and the adopted parents would be awful, that there was going to be a Pandemic which would affect your choices, a war, a car crash a plane falling from the sky. Everything that happened in the world would have to fit the life plan for everyone so everything is predetermined; across all the planets and stars of the universe.

Many interesting points throughout your response here, Jim - thank you.  It seems we think similarly about many issues.  Perhaps the twin notions of life-plans and reincarnation are rather like the curate's egg - good in parts?  You don't appear to have been exposed to these notions via Spiritualism and that's what I'd been wondering about.  I'm loath to trust my memory but couldn't recall the like of Silver Birch, whose influence is often seen in Modern Spiritualism, speaking about such issues.  I can see some logic in our having planned some experiences before we incarnated but I've found it hard to make sense of anything much more specific than that for most of us.  

I think we have just hit one of humankinds egotistical areas. After all we see humanity as of prime importance across all of Gods creations, the centre of that universe (until well into the middle ages in maps). If you roll it back and say that the universe is, if anything is, the key part of the attention of that Creative Intelligence, the Great Spirit, which created it, then I believe that we, who appeared as an accidental by product of chemical activity which created evolution, probably remain well away from the centre of that beings attention.

I have my own ideas about 'source' - a word I've adopted to avoid the baggage of the words 'God' 'spirit' 'Great Spirit' etc. - but it's vague.

Its a point I have been pondering on and indeed my Guide is pushing me to think about. Almost heretically I have come to the conclusion that a part of that evolutionary process has enabled us, through the overall energy of the Spirit which created our universe, imbuing all of it with a Spiritual essence, to continue life beyond death as the individual we were. It leaves lots of other questions hanging around unanswered. Additionally it, like all the other hypothesis is incapable of proof. However, my guide pointed out that even as a spirit, for over a thousand years, they could not comprehend God let alone try to explain.

You're fortunate to have an identifiable relationship with your guide and it's reassuring that after all that earth time he/she isn't able to figure God any better than us.  I'm unable to figure whether my ideas are indeed my own or those from someone guiding me.  I hope it's the latter but if it's the former I'll take comfort that I'm analytical enough to regularly scrutinise my thoughts and ideas!

There is one positive to this, or negative if you want to be told God's plan is peace and harmony, humanity is in charge of what happens here, whatever we do and its consequences, are ours to shape and to benefit from or to suffer the consequences of. We should never blame God for our misfortunes, some are the natural impact of the chaos that is created by natural forces ( I would include pandemics in that) however, far to many of our problems are caused by the actions or inactions of mankind on a personal, national, religious and world wide basis.

It also explains why God just allows these things to happen, why there is no intervention. We have free will to act as we wish, my only question is, if we were to reach the point where we could and were about to destroy the planet would God act against us to protect his creation.
On that last point, Jim, I and others have asked that very question via a particular medium I know, each time without a definitive answer.  For my own guidance I hold in my psyche the concepts 'channeled' by author Julie Gale. (for me a medium more than a channeler although she said she didn't mind which way her words were seen to have come.)  Maybe thinkers all develop personal version of things they can't nail down.....?

Probably no surprise that those who have lived a physical life and watch from the other side now try to help us be better humans. Maybe in the years of emptiness God did create Angels to monitor the universe, possibly working in some way alongside the Spirits of our ancestors but once again proof is lacking. The only proof I have is in the continued existence of those loved once who have passed over through the evidence I give via my mediumship.

Mostly I stick to the fundamentals in your last sentence - survival and evidence of it via mediumship.

One point my Guide has made is that at some stage mankind needs to revise their view of God just as they have realised the reality of planets, a round earth and evolution. In the nineteenth century the ties of traditional religion would have prevented this but now they have loosened its time to start because the reality may benefit mankind.

I said I am truly turning into a heretical infidel Mac.

Then you can brand me similarly, Jim.  I'm a little older than you and of late my view is turning towards the inevitable and maybe fast-approaching end to my present incarnation.  Whether it's my first or one of many I have no idea but I continue to scan this world's situation and the likely outcomes if humankind continues along its present path.  

In my mind I've nailed survival sufficiently well for my personal needs and I continue to look outwards to what will be happening for the generations who will follow.  It's not a rosy picture but I've seen how resourceful humankind can be at times and humankind will need to be more resourceful in the immediate decades to follow than it has ever been before.  

I fear that religion will continue to divide rather than unify and perhaps always will.  If humankind is to accept a version of God different from the ones it's had over the centuries a sea-change will be needed and I'm not confident it can happen for several generations - religious traditions can be persistent.

But all the above is less important than unity of approach to the immediate problems of climate alteration and global population explosion.  God through religion must take a back seat while humankind tries to secure an acceptable future.

mac


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