The Scole Experiment

I wondered if there has been a debate on here about the Scole Experiment. Having read years ago the Grant Solomon book, the SPR Report, and Foy's Witnessing the Impossible, I wondered if there is anything of value to be learned. My own analysis of what was happening differed from Robin Foy's, but I haven't seen any discussions on the forums except ignore it as in the dark and weird, or as Robin interprets the events, a middle way of interpreatation seems of no interest?

If you type "scole experiment" in the little search box in the top right corner of the screen, you'll get your answer Normy

Oh right Wes, will do.

I've spent quite a time on discussion boards but have yet to meet anyone who (like myself) was a subscriber to the NSSF during even part of, let alone the whole time the Scole Experiment was running. I find that very curious as the 'spooks' fraternity is a pretty small one. One of our previous member was around during that time but not a Foundation 'member'. Hence I've been unable even to discuss what happened let alone compare outcomes and reactions....

I do think there are things to be learned from the time of the group's activities but how valuable they may be I'm in no position to judge.

I was a subscriber to the NSSF in it's early years, also the Noah's Ark Society at the same time. It seemed then that the interesting phenomena at Scole could be believed in or not, but with no survival evidence that I can remember.
When I read the books in later years, what puzzled me was that although none of the group claimed to be a physical medium, there was apparently physical phenomena. I had the traditional view about ectoplasm and phenomena. What I had read about at Scole had been carried out in past physical circles, from my research. I didn't buy the energy theories, so I thought that, unknowingly, a physical medium was within that group. I still believe that makes most sense.
There were a few messages given in trance by the mediums, apparently accepted as mental messages as survival evidence.
I suggest that the mediums were clairvoyant/clairaudient, and someone in the group had physical mediumship ability, which together could account for all that happened at Scole, except the weird alien thing which could have been conjured up from the subconscious mind.

Just to back that up, on P. 50 of 'Witnessing the Impossible' , Emily Bradshaw, through medium Diana, was said to bring excellent survival evidence for the group. Personal facts were given about relatives of the Foys and some of their correct names, altogether sounding like a very good evidential message from a mental medium. The mediums were said to know none of this information.

normy wrote:I was a subscriber to the NSSF in it's early years, also the Noah's Ark Society at the same time. It seemed then that the interesting phenomena at Scole could be believed in or not, but with no survival evidence that I can remember.
When I read the books in later years, what puzzled me was that although none of the group claimed to be a physical medium, there was apparently physical phenomena. I had the traditional view about ectoplasm and phenomena. What I had read about at Scole had been carried out in past physical circles, from my research. I didn't buy the energy theories, so I thought that, unknowingly, a physical medium was within that group. I still believe that makes most sense.
There were a few messages given in trance by the mediums, apparently accepted as mental messages as survival evidence.
I suggest that the mediums were clairvoyant/clairaudient, and someone in the group had physical mediumship ability, which together could account for all that happened at Scole, except the weird alien thing which could have been conjured up from the subconscious mind.

sorry, normy Either I didn't know, or I've forgotten, that you'd been a subscriber. I don't remember you speaking much about things. I dipped in and out of NAS membership over those years it was the official mouthpiece for physical mediumship and I was in the early stages of creating a mini-database of the Ark Reviews just before the Society began to run out of steam.

It's interesting how you word your second sentence. Were you not minded to believe what was being reported? I agree that survival evidence wasn't high on the list of priorities but from what I recall of the events (many years ago now) the intention was to improve physical phenomena (be that 'new energy' or not and I remember George being very scathing about that claim) to the point that they were so predictable and reliable that they would effectively demonstrate survival when all other explanations did not stack up. An eventually different approach to 'proving' survival.

From the outset Robin Foy had said that the traditional approach of ectoplasm and the production of phenomena would not apply in the group's work and that's one of the reasons I became interested. There were others too and the (then) new venture looked to be the kind I could support - I found the NAS approach old-fashioned and stuffy, not suited to the approaching new millennium.

From the little I recall about the Bennets/Bylets they were mental mediums who were the link for communication with the 'spirit-side' team. Whether either of them or Sandra was a physical medium I don't know but no play was made of that possibility. As the experiment was brought to a premature halt I consider it a failure as the sometimes-spectacular phenomena were not intended (to the best of my recall) to be the final outcome and the reliability and predictability that should have been able to withstand all manner of scientific scrutiny were never achieved. The interference by low-level entities in the fundamental communication between teams, leading to the cessation of activities, left me shattered and disillusioned at how it could have been allowed to happen.

I do not agree with claims that the experiment was a success - had it become what was intended then we'd be seeing the outcome still.

normy wrote:Just to back that up, on P. 50 of 'Witnessing the Impossible' , Emily Bradshaw, through medium Diana, was said to bring excellent survival evidence for the group. Personal facts were given about relatives of the Foys and some of their correct names, altogether sounding like a very good evidential message from a mental medium. The mediums were said to know none of this information.

In light of what was initially being proposed for the Scole Experiment I saw evidential mediumship as unimportant. I understood all the participants had the same high aspirations and the level of competency of the mediums was taken as read.

It was, for me, a special undertaking where survival evidence would eventually be demonstrated but (to the best of my recall) simple mental evidential mediumship was never the aim.

I'm sure you're correct in all you said mac. From what I remember, I did not personally see how survival evidence could be demonstrated without direct voice or materialisation or perhaps transfiguration. I hold the same view today. I could not see how physical phenomena, no matter how reliable and predictable, could demonstrate survival, as there are other theories to possibly account for it.
Unfortunately, as I did not know the Foys,and whether they were trustworthy and accurate in their reporting, I did not believe or disbelieve, but there seemed to be no real breakthrough and I stopped subscribing. George was an influence, as he helped guide me towards the prior history where it had all been done before.

An interesting coincidence, some say there aren't any. I looked on PM4U today and an analysis of 'Witnessing the Impossible' has just been posted, unknown to me when I started this thread. http://physicalmediumship4u.ning.com/profiles/blogs/analysis-of-witnessing-the-impossible?xg_source=activity

I was qwesiun The Scole Experiment in foy´s forum - and he abanded me from his forum!!
I dont beliv it is genuine - you cant putt new mediums as trans mediums - developp trans takes a lot mor time then wath the experiment was hoold!

sorry my swenglish - offcource it is trance(trans)

Lovely to see that Swenglish again Jane welcome back

Thanks Admin

Jane Lyzell wrote:I was qwesiun The Scole Experiment in foy´s forum - and he abanded me from his forum!!
I dont beliv it is genuine - you cant putt new mediums as trans mediums - developp trans takes a lot mor time then wath the experiment was hoold!

Jane, they were trance mediums long before the Scole experiments took place.

It dident say int the book

yes its the events that created the concerns, I believe retrospectively the SPR team believe thay could have used better controls. To me it just dissappeared into its own Stargate type Alien Wormhole which removed any credibility it may have appeared to have.

agree Admin:-)

As I've mentioned before, and folks must be sick of hearing this, the so-called experiment failed because it didn't achieve what was intended.

Paranormal phenomena aren't evidential mediumship and hence don't show evidence of survival.

agree

Jane Lyzell wrote:It dident say int the book

I know Alan and Diane Bennett personally and sat with them on a number of occasions but this was sometime before the work in Scole.

Jane Lyzell wrote:I was qwesiun The Scole Experiment in foy´s forum - and he abanded me from his forum!!
I dont beliv it is genuine - you cant putt new mediums as trans mediums - developp trans takes a lot mor time then wath the experiment was hoold!

With respect Jane, I'm not sure this is necessarily true. I remember reading that Leslie Flint went into trance with very (if any) little training in the early. I think the same thing happened to Maurice Barbanell too. (allegedly, and all the other usual caveats )

Its also true Obi that Trance is a form of mental mediumship not physical mediumship. Some people drop straight into it but the crucial part is to ensure the structure of the circle is right.

I keep coming close now but unless I was in a circle which was closed, where there was an experienced trance circle leader, I will not take that step. Of course the Home Circle Maurice Barbanell went into was experienced because Estelle Roberts had worked there. Not sure what circle Leslie Flint started in maybe someone on here knows.

My guides and I know this rule of mine in the open circle I run where I also make it clear trance is not allowed. To many risks and the strong possibility someone will channel their own sub conscious thoughts.

Admin wrote:Its also true Obi that Trance is a form of mental mediumship not physical mediumship. Some people drop straight into it but the crucial part is to ensure the structure of the circle is right.

Of course the Home Circle Maurice Barbanell went into was experienced because Estelle Roberts had worked there. Not sure what circle Leslie Flint started in maybe someone on here knows.

All true as far as my research goes Jim, beyond that I defer to your knowledge. I am not sure which circle Leslie Flint was in but I got it from his autobiography. The point I was making really was simply that some folks appear to be able to demonstrate trance mediumship with little or no training - not that I am recommending this approach of course

You are absolutely right in your thoughts, some are naturals, something in the wiring of the mind I would guess, you can also pick those who may be suited to Physical Mediumship.

Of course Barbanell, if the story is true, went to debunk not do trance.