still struggling with Spiritualism

I started this thread to follow on from the 'Red Cloud' topic running elsewhere....

Some of what Jim said:

"Interesting point Mac, I think Red Cloud and Silver Birch are the only channelled material which shows cohesion without going off in directions I am not happy with.


I am especially interested that you used the term "channelled" in connection with the work from these communicators. Over this past summer I've had a long-running, but uneven, dialogue in forums elsewhere trying to 'get a handle' on what folks see as mediums and mediumship.

I had intended to broaden that discussion into channellers and channelling but the poor responses on the opening subject led me to think it was probably pointless trying to go further....

What I found astonishing was that after opening the discussion with a very simple definition of 'medium', few responded by giving their own definition or outlining how 'their' mediumship was different. One might conclude that this was because there were no perceived differences yet it was plain from many postings that this was not the case.

On one website, where I've posted for nearly 7 years, a 'Spiritualism' forum was created in June at the request of members, but I'd missed the event as we were on the road. By the time I found the forum months later, there had not been a single posting.

I started a thread there which included this same discussion point. The thread has to date received 522 viewings and only 29 replies. Those 29 replies were from myself and: 3 contributors making serious points, 1 moderator asking me for help about Spiritualism, 1 member with a 'joke', 1 member with nothing to contribute.

Is this an accurate reflection, one might wonder, of the lack of interest in Spiritualism?

Hmm Mac I have replied on the other thread apologising for chanelling.

In reality Spiritualismis at the bottom end of where it can go without that which I believe you I and others on this site believe in without dissapearing.

So few out there even understand what we are taliking about it is scary. My understanding is the NSAC from having a membership in millions is one in thousands.

Maybe we are at the bottome and those of us with enthusiasm and ideas like yourself and others can pick it up and carry it forward.

Jim

For the majority of people Spiritualism is out of date, therefore it may not appeal to some for a variety of reasons. I often wonder if it's because the word 'Religion' crops up. Perhaps this has different conations in their minds and they choose to dismiss it, if indeed it was there in the first place.

Most are interested only in becoming a 'medium' without feeling the necessity to explore deeper into this field. Resulting in people wanting to emulate their preferred medium yet not wishing to learn even the basics.

Televised 'mediumship' may also have a lot to do with the changes we see. Such mediums are seen simply communicating to Spirit without any mention of religion. They don't see the hard work that the medium puts in for making Spiritual communications possible, neither are they concerned with how or where they developed.

The 7 Principles of Spiritualism are a way of life for some Spiritualists, with mediumship as an added bonus. Unfortunately some people are only interested in the well known 'Law Of Atrraction' and sadly this appears to be for their own benefit to increase their personal wealth. In reality it seems to me spiritual values have gone by the wayside which could account for the decline in not only Spiritualism, but in other religions.

I seem to have strayed of topic so i'll finish here.

Very good points in an elusive discussion - elusive in defining precisely what it is we are speaking of, yet out of reach to many who cannot as yet realise its depths.
Currently, 'mediumship' is an adornment of the ego, an extra wee dimension in the CV of the glamourous Life. I am only able to observe locally although this does seem generally accurate.
The view of self has changed. Being a 'somebody' has become its purpose and anything which might help to accomplish this state - no matter how phoney - is grabbed at with both hands. The notion of giving service as a way and purpose in Life of life is virtually obsolete, although there will be notable exceptions.
The 'me' rules.
Life is lived on the surface and 'spiritualism,' among other things, touches only the shadow of the intellect and has yet to penetrate the heart. Superficiality is an impenetrable barrier it seems.
There is also a feeling of this situation having been being contrived, engineered even, by the orthodox views that were almost swept away in the great rush to Spiritualist prominence of a few years ago. There seemed to be a calculated ploy to build 'em up in order to see them dash themselves down again, like so many empty vessels, as in give them enough rope and they'll soon reveal their psychic shallowness if you dont mind the mixed metaphor.
Seems if there was any such plan, it was both astute and accurate. A watered down Spiritualism would be contained and diffused at the psychic level as mildly amusing, but must never be allowed to be taken seriously as a way of life. It might even be acceptable as a stepping stone to real understanding.

Perhaps the climate for spiritual unfoldment by the many was not yet come - the
materialist view was gaining a greater hold on the minds of the young, encouraged and fostered by those who stood to gain by this.

If so, what to do?

It may be that the picture painted is badly skewed and our young have a spiritual depth their elders could only dream about, in which case patient teaching of our values will sow seeds of promise for the future.
It does seem though that this is a time of reflection and consolidation, a time to connect to those in the wider world beyond seeking understanding.

Brilliant post Hiorta. Duncan

Admin wrote:Hmm Mac I have replied on the other thread apologising for chanelling.

In reality Spiritualismis at the bottom end of where it can go without that which I believe you I and others on this site believe in without dissapearing.

So few out there even understand what we are taliking about it is scary. My understanding is the NSAC from having a membership in millions is one in thousands.

Maybe we are at the bottome and those of us with enthusiasm and ideas like yourself and others can pick it up and carry it forward.

Jim

Despite my self-appointed Jeremiah role I am still near-dumbfounded at just how bad things actually appear to be. I have mentioned mediumship and spending much time fighting, debating, arguing, discussing it over the summer months. That came as a big surprise for me as my mind had been firmly focussed on less cerebral pursuits...

But it seemed that I should be doing what I eventually did end up doing and over many hours I began to piece together the many different understandings held by contributors to various discussion forums. Of course this was a far from scientific evaluation of the situation but the more I looked around, the more I saw a similar picture emerging.

As we've agreed before, Jim, things can hardly get worse without the disappearance of our movement. I wouldn't mind that if it were replaced by something of importance - plainly Spiritualism is not important any longer.

Where we go now I have no idea. It would be great to find I'd been directed to this point and that further direction was coming my way. But I don't have any such confidence so, for now, I'll bash on doing what I can, to say what I can, wherever I can.

And that'll have to do as I don't have anything else to offer.

I seem to recall the words of Silver Birch saying: The power of the Spirit is in your world to stay. Which would imply that change is constant and constantly necessary. All feels well despite the apparent shallow offerings by those who really should know better. I suppose it is only very natural to hope the very best of our 'ism' is yet to come, but then, the people of this day must play their part in earning it. Silver Birch again: 'all things work wisely and well'.

Hi to All,

This is a very good discussion with some very telling points.

That was a very good post Hiorta and I love especially the last piece

It may be that the picture painted is badly skewed and our young have a spiritual depth their elders could only dream about, in which case patient teaching of our values will sow seeds of promise for the future.
It does seem though that this is a time of reflection and consolidation, a time to connect to those in the wider world beyond seeking understanding

With our son now 25 and the contact we have with all of his friends I would say many have depths which will suprise us. They all know our beliefs and respect them although they range accross many different religous views. Our son, most exposed to Spiritualism has never been pushed to accept it. He treats it as a sceptical observer and is one of the toughest critics of Lis and I's mediumshhip. He has, however, attended a number of times and seen all of our visitors but remains to have it proved to him.

Without parents having done a lot it seems the young are very aware that they will have to pick up the mess we have made of the world and pay debts off.

However, is the old version of the Spiritualist religion relevant to them, I am not sure. Not being in the Uk I have no clear picture of the structure of the churches there nowadays. However I suspect that with stronger central bodies they are better placed to present a more uniform version of Spiritualism but susceptible because they have to follow a prescribed form of service to ensure visitors a uniformity of experience accross churches (of course in essence an unachievable wish because of differences in the numbers, personalities and ages of attendees).

In Adelaide I feel, like most of Australia, your experience and what was presented to you would be very confusing. It would be really hard to learn what was Spiritualism from the mix of rational, Christian and new age elements you would meet. Reality said its probably the ones with a high Christain Content and les emphasis on detailed proof of survival messsages that are drawing the numbers. Flower reading is exceptionally popular as almost everyone gets a message of some type. Will you hear much about our philosophy, not a lot even in talking to people afterwards and what you may here could confuse you more in the apparent contradictions that may be heard. Yes two missions focus strongly on the rational SNU style Elizabeth Church which includes singing and ourselves where we only play music.

We have few young attendees, they mainly get their psychic hit from readers and fares whilst the attraction of the Charismatic Baptist churches are very strong. The Assemblies of God here in a Northern suburb, called aptly, or inaptly, Paradise, draws in excess of 5,000 on a Sunday, has restaurants live concerts services etc etc. A former Australian Idol Winner Guy Sebastian still goes there and sings at time. Hillsong in Sydney is even bigger, no boring hymns but lively music with a deep message, albeit Christian, I have posted a typical example of the type of thing that is drawing young folks in the Inspirational Poetry, Words and Art forum. Miracle of the Moment.

So juxtaposing these two experiences which are on offer gives an idea of the issues we face. An indistinct rather amorphous presentation of Spiritualism against some rather vibrant experiences for youth. Exactly the same problem traditional religion faces, although you probably have a better idea of what to expect in a Uniting Church albeit different congregations now have more freedom of expression in their services.

Seems if the younger people want psychic they get readings at fairs from crystal and metaphysical stores, phone/internet lines and from the myriad of readers freely available.

By the way it still does not meen we are irrelevant because there is always a time when people start to look for more or realise that the message they have been getting no longer resonates for them. When we have good speakers who are good mediums a different crowd appears and even younger attendees can get blown away. I remain an optimist despite some very unpleasant and disturbing events affecting us and our Mission in Adelaide.

Lets keep the talk about this going. My personal view is 4 elements are crucial, great talks, good mediumship, presenting the philosophy (plus teaching) and Spiritual Healing (especially clinics). Does this have to be in a Sunday "Service" with churchy overtones?

A major problem we have is that on the surface, this world favours material goals over spiritual ones, and that spiritual practices won't flourish until it becomes widespread knowledge that there are meaningful alternatives to a material existence.

And because spiritualism does not have a "one size fits all" approach to awareness, it is well nigh impossible for it to gain a media foothold where only the most watered down, faddy concepts that fit a seven second soundbite can get coverage.

So that leaves us fighting head down in the trenches, toiling away inch by inch, foot by foot, working on one soul at a time. If that's where spirit's work is best done then so be it, but it is frustrating to see so much misinformation and new age red herrings sending people off course who are searching for some meaning to their lives.

Silver Birch talks of a master plan that is in place to bridge the communication gap between his world and ours so people can allow their spirits to unfold and flourish while living an earthly existence, and I for one fervently hope that plan is on track and will one day make forum threads like this one redundant :-)

Well said Wes

isnt that what some people think the whole 2012 thing is going 2 be about? there being some kind of shift in spiritual awareness or something. im a 29yr old single mum & living here in dundee, scotland i think people seem 2 have a better understanding on the subject than they did say maybe 10yr ago, or at least have more of an open mind. i have 3 young children aged 12, 10 & 6, & each of them have a little knowledge on the subject. honestly i dont think we have anything 2 worry about. i have quite a funny story 2 how my eyes were opened up 2 spirituality/paranormal stuff.(i maybe shouldnt say funny story as i can assure u there was nothing funny about being addicted 2 herion) it was due 2 being an addict that my interest grew. it was coming off the herion & realising the hardest part was mind over matter, & at the exact time i thought that, that things started popping into my head, like paranormal things & words, like psychic & mediums & it dawned on me that if the mind was strong enough 2 make you well again just by thinking it then maybe there was more 2 psychics & mediums than i 1st thought, as i'd thought all that kind of thing was a load of old cobblers & thats when my interest started. now when i think about it the more i think it was my spirit guides putting them words in my head that made me have my awakening. one of the many ways they've helped me get on the right path. something else that helped me turn in2 a believer happend when i was still on herion & before my interest in this sort of thing had started, i had a couple of out of body experiences, ( though i didnt know what they were then ) i've experienced a few since ive been off the herion aswell but i willed myself 2 do them then, but the ones that happend while still on the herion happend on there own accord, i actually believe was my spirit trying 2 escape the hell i was putting it through. how funny is that it was thanks 2 being on herion that allowed me 2 have the most amazing experience, even though it scared the hell out of me at the time, & thanks 2 coming off the drugs that opened my eyes 2 this totally amazing new world. as you could imaging i dont regret a single moment of being an addict as if it werent for that then i might not be the person i am today, & i might not know what i know or believe what i believe in. how ironic, the worst part of my life opened up the best part of my life. also if anyone reading this knows anything about out of body experiences i wrote about mine, but by accident put it under spirit guides, could u please have a look & if u could answer any of the questions ive asked then that would be much appreciated xxx in love & light jackie xxx

Hi Jacki, welcome to a fine board with many very wise and experienced people on it. As you say, it usually takes great difficulties to assist the Soul to begin to awaken and grow. It is said that it is only in the storms of life that the conditions best for the Soul are ti be found - although that needn't be so.

Be glad that you have realised the Higher Life is available to you and please go for it.
Margaret O'Connor used to be associated with a Dundee Church - Progressive
SNU Church, if I remember correctly. This is a place to just 'be in the atmosphere' which is a great help, especially in the early days.

The folk here are usually willing to add a wee bit as they are impressed, but you do know it is a solitary journey at the beginning - there is a saying which I found to be true: 'When the pupil is ready the teacher will appear' - the teacher, of course can be anyone or anything.
Becoming aware as you seem to have done is the biggest hurdle and is now behind you. Good luck in your search.

At the basic Spirit initiated communication with the world wholesale as compared with just a few like the church. It took off like a rocket because the world was being overwhelmed by Science in the shape of Darwin and the origin of the species. Socieity nobviously thought that God and Spiritual aims would be curtalied. Spiritual communication was abreath of fresh air in the mix. It grew into a large movement. It seems when one group regard themselves as the only one then that is when it begins to fail. I entered Spiritualism with a great curiosity as I am sure others have. Iwas very naive at first as to how Spiritual people are in the organisation. I love Spirit and respect them but not so with some of the people in it. It was veyr like the original when I joined but gradually you would begin to hear of the failing in the churches. For genuine and dedicated spiritualists it is disillusioning to their ethos of Spirit being the whole raison detre (pardon to Trudeau). I hardly go to my particular church because of poor Mediumship which if the truth be told is not mediumship but psychicism.

It does seem that today's notion of Spiritualism is operating back-to-front, in that the focus is primarily on the ego-centric individual, next on the particular blinkered grouping of the gathering and finally upon the entire purpose, truth, and direction that is being pointed out.

As aways, it is the human element that has altered the perception of earlier times.
A reduction and dilution of the ism?
Time will tell, but all is change in any case.

hiorta wrote:It does seem that today's notion of Spiritualism is operating back-to-front, in that the focus is primarily on the ego-centric individual, next on the particular blinkered grouping of the gathering and finally upon the entire purpose, truth, and direction that is being pointed out.

As aways, it is the human element that has altered the perception of earlier times.
A reduction and dilution of the ism?
Time will tell, but all is change in any case.

"It does seem that today's notion of Spiritualism is operating back-to-front....." I'd question whether it is Spiritualism at all.

i think spiritualism has changed immensely since the old days of spooks and ghosties etc.
My impression is now folks take it more seriously and are willing to accept that there is more to life than death or simply 'nothing' at the end.
I also feel folks prepare more for that elusive 'life after death'.
Spiritualism is advertised more by the spiritualist churches,no more weird glances when we mention we are a spiritualist.
Yes,we are becoming more spiriual minded,in my opinion and less of the relgious overtones.
Petal

Now out of body experiences I can vouch for. ONe tomany epileptic fits and I was weary and I did se myself float away it was soo funny I had to grab myself or at least tried to and pull the vision of myself back. There my doppleganger was floating merrily on its way and I tried to grab a leg does this count as an outer body experience? well whatever it was it had me in creases laughing

julie wrote:Now out of body experiences I can vouch for. ONe tomany epileptic fits and I was weary and I did se myself float away it was soo funny I had to grab myself or at least tried to and pull the vision of myself back. There my doppleganger was floating merrily on its way and I tried to grab a leg does this count as an outer body experience? well whatever it was it had me in creases laughing

But obe's are not the meat or drink of Spiritualism, the principle focus of this website. They may have some personal meaning but of themselves have no great significance.

OH no I'm not suggesting they were. That would be very naive of me

Is it really that long since I visited this site?

I have never experienced an OBE and don't think I want to.
I am quite happy with the little I know of spiritualism.
Have you ever experienced Astral travel,Julie?