Dancing past the dark

Left Behind wrote:

zerdini wrote:

Left Behind wrote:Having said that, I'm still a believer in the validity of the near-death phenomenon. I think it's given us a lot of evidence about survival.

Also, with the academic credentials of many of its most avid proponents - MD's and PhD's galore - it strikes a responsive chord in many who wouldn't give mediums a second glance.

Near death experiences are exactly that 'near death' - they do not demonstrate survival. Only death experiences relayed from the Other Side can do that.

Many reported near-death experiences come from people who have been pronounced clinically dead. They tell similar stories of having gone to a place similar to earth, but more beautiful, and of meeting deceased friends and relatives, who have somehow aged up-to or down-to the prime of their lives. They tell of their lives being reviewed and evaluated, and of requesting or being ordered to return to their earthly life. They often should be suffering from brain damage when they rescuscitate, but aren't: in fact, are often inexplicably cured of whatever they died from in the first place.

Sounds evidentiary of a life beyond, to me.

Jim

I agree, but if they can be resuscitated they weren't dead in the first place despite the pronouncements of the medical profession.

Well, there's the flaw in the whole near-death phenomenon on the first place. All of these people who relate their experiences are alive when they're relating them.

Whether that means that they didn't truly die in the first place is debatable. But we know for sure that at least they didn't STAY dead.

Jim

Left Behind wrote:Well, there's the flaw in the whole near-death phenomenon on the first place. All of these people who relate their experiences are alive when they're relating them.

Whether that means that they didn't truly die in the first place is debatable. But we know for sure that at least they didn't STAY dead.

Jim

Come on Jim.

It's not debatable at all. They didn't die. When you die the silver cord is severed and when it's severed you cannot be resuscitated.

You can be a bit dead then come back. Not dead-dead but near enough to have passing awareness that folk on the other side are there for you if the silver cord is broken.
Hence NDE.

KatyKing wrote:You can be a bit dead then come back. Not dead-dead but near enough to have passing awareness that folk on the other side are there for you if the silver cord is broken.
Hence NDE.

As John McEnroe used to say: "You cannot be serious" - a bit dead?

Yep just a bit. Heart stopped,flat lined. Crash team on their way with magic paddles.
Deader than one was when last walking the dog or playing footer.
Classic NDE. Silver cord stretched but not broken [think bungee cord at full stretch] and soul in spirit body hovering around Summerland check in zone chatting to loved ones gone before. Then the bungee snaps you back in a trice.

KatyKing wrote:Yep just a bit. Heart stopped,flat lined. Crash team on their way with magic paddles.
Deader than one was when last walking the dog or playing footer.
Classic NDE. Silver cord stretched but not broken [think bungee cord at full stretch] and soul in spirit body hovering around Summerland check in zone chatting to loved ones gone before. Then the bungee snaps you back in a trice.

Then you weren't dead to start with!

By the way, I do know what a near death experience is.

That's good George. Well done you.

KatyKing wrote:That's good George. Well done you.

Indeed.

zerdini wrote:

KatyKing wrote:You can be a bit dead then come back. Not dead-dead but near enough to have passing awareness that folk on the other side are there for you if the silver cord is broken.
Hence NDE.

As John McEnroe used to say: "You cannot be serious" - a bit dead?

I don't say that medical science is infallible, since I have multiple personal experiences to the contrary. However, when physicians say that a person is registering no pulse, no respiration, no blood pressure, has a flat EKG, has a flat EEG, and these conditions remain for several minutes. . . I'm reluctant to say that person isn't dead.

Left Behind wrote:

zerdini wrote:

KatyKing wrote:You can be a bit dead then come back. Not dead-dead but near enough to have passing awareness that folk on the other side are there for you if the silver cord is broken.
Hence NDE.

As John McEnroe used to say: "You cannot be serious" - a bit dead?

I don't say that medical science is infallible, since I have multiple personal experiences to the contrary. However, when physicians say that a person is registering no pulse, no respiration, no blood pressure, has a flat EKG, has a flat EEG, and these conditions remain for several minutes. . . I'm reluctant to say that person isn't dead.

I repeat - until the silver cord is severed you are not dead no matter what physicians say. Have you read The Romeo Error by Lyall Watson?

Whilst this is beginning to sound a little like Monty Python's dead parrot sketch it is an interesting strand. Definitions need to be agreed for meaningful discourse. So here goes....

No not dead. A bit dead. Medically dead but not by the Spiritualist definition.
Who was it [AJD?] likened the silver cord to an umbilicus and its severing presaging our 'birth' into the world of spirit?
Admin may know. I read that years ago and it seems a fair description.

Long before AJD the Bible stated:

The term is derived from Ecclesiastes 12:6-12:7 in the Old Testament, from the KJV:
"Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."

Ta.

Found it
AJD in Beyond the Valley....Ch. Death Scenes in a NY Hospital. Thought I'd seen it recently. There are some commissioned silver cord pics....
"The analogy between natural parturition and spiritual birth is as perfect, in certain progressive particulars, as it is possible for two inherently dissimilar proceedings to imitate and represent one another."

KatyKing wrote:Whilst this is beginning to sound a little like Monty Python's dead parrot sketch it is an interesting strand.

I was thinking of the scene with the Munchkin coroner in The Wizard of Oz.

Jim

zerdini wrote:

Left Behind wrote:

zerdini wrote:

KatyKing wrote:You can be a bit dead then come back. Not dead-dead but near enough to have passing awareness that folk on the other side are there for you if the silver cord is broken.
Hence NDE.

As John McEnroe used to say: "You cannot be serious" - a bit dead?

I don't say that medical science is infallible, since I have multiple personal experiences to the contrary. However, when physicians say that a person is registering no pulse, no respiration, no blood pressure, has a flat EKG, has a flat EEG, and these conditions remain for several minutes. . . I'm reluctant to say that person isn't dead.

I repeat - until the silver cord is severed you are not dead no matter what physicians say. Have you read The Romeo Error by Lyall Watson?

I've not read same.

It's interesting that being told that you're not irrevocably dead is a part of so many NDE's. So many of them speak of seeing a wall, stream, fence, line, or whatever and sensing or being told that this is the final boundary between life and death: that if they cross same, they can NOT return to the earth.

The silver cord?

Jim

That brought to mind a dream I had shortly after my dad 'died'.
A perfectly common place dream.
Walking up a tree lined street,saw my dad standing at the front door of a house.
Big smile on his face. I walked up the front door,no words spoken. Just so pleased to see him but for some reason I knew I wasn't allowed to step into the house.
But! Looking towards the back interior of the house,through a hallway,saw mum standing at the sink washing dishes. She never turned around.
She was still here,alive and thriving so why was she allowed inside?
Strangely enough,she passed a few years after.

Left Behind wrote:

zerdini wrote:

Left Behind wrote:

zerdini wrote:

KatyKing wrote:You can be a bit dead then come back. Not dead-dead but near enough to have passing awareness that folk on the other side are there for you if the silver cord is broken.
Hence NDE.

As John McEnroe used to say: "You cannot be serious" - a bit dead?

I don't say that medical science is infallible, since I have multiple personal experiences to the contrary. However, when physicians say that a person is registering no pulse, no respiration, no blood pressure, has a flat EKG, has a flat EEG, and these conditions remain for several minutes. . . I'm reluctant to say that person isn't dead.

I repeat - until the silver cord is severed you are not dead no matter what physicians say. Have you read The Romeo Error by Lyall Watson?

I've not read same.

It's interesting that being told that you're not irrevocably dead is a part of so many NDE's. So many of them speak of seeing a wall, stream, fence, line, or whatever and sensing or being told that this is the final boundary between life and death: that if they cross same, they can NOT return to the earth.

The silver cord?

Jim

Once the silver cord is severed there's no going back.

Like birth once the umbilical cord is cut there's no going back.

petal34 wrote:That brought to mind a dream I had shortly after my dad 'died'.
A perfectly common place dream.
Walking up a tree lined street,saw my dad standing at the front door of a house.
Big smile on his face. I walked up the front door,no words spoken. Just so pleased to see him but for some reason I knew I wasn't allowed to step into the house.
But! Looking towards the back interior of the house,through a hallway,saw mum standing at the sink washing dishes. She never turned around.
She was still here,alive and thriving so why was she allowed inside?
Strangely enough,she passed a few years after.

Dreams are strange things, Petal, and controversial discussions can ensue about them. So let me get one rolling here!

Some contend that the soul or mind or psyche leaves the body and travels when we sleep. Others dispute this. Some say that some dreams are a result of this soul travel, but other dreams aren't.

If both you and your mother's souls were traveling to the spirit world / etheric plane at the time, that is indeed a mystery: why could she enter the place of no return (but come back), when you couldn't?

Persoanlly I'm more inclined to the view that dreams represent our subconscious minds at work, then our souls at travel. And anything is possible then.

Left Behind wrote:

petal34 wrote:That brought to mind a dream I had shortly after my dad 'died'.
A perfectly common place dream.
Walking up a tree lined street,saw my dad standing at the front door of a house.
Big smile on his face. I walked up the front door,no words spoken. Just so pleased to see him but for some reason I knew I wasn't allowed to step into the house.
But! Looking towards the back interior of the house,through a hallway,saw mum standing at the sink washing dishes. She never turned around.
She was still here,alive and thriving so why was she allowed inside?
Strangely enough,she passed a few years after.

Dreams are strange things, Petal, and controversial discussions can ensue about them. So let me get one rolling here!

Some contend that the soul or mind or psyche leaves the body and travels when we sleep. Others dispute this. Some say that some dreams are a result of this soul travel, but other dreams aren't.

If both you and your mother's souls were traveling to the spirit world / etheric plane at the time, that is indeed a mystery: why could she enter the place of no return (but come back), when you couldn't?

Persoanlly I'm more inclined to the view that dreams represent our subconscious minds at work, then our souls at travel. And anything is possible then.

Unless it was my own mind inserting her into my dream,dad there and so I wanted her with him.
Well,she is now,Jim.

No washing up to do either.
The RC help will take care of that after they've finished hoovering round.
;-).

petal34 wrote:

Left Behind wrote:

petal34 wrote:That brought to mind a dream I had shortly after my dad 'died'.
A perfectly common place dream.
Walking up a tree lined street,saw my dad standing at the front door of a house.
Big smile on his face. I walked up the front door,no words spoken. Just so pleased to see him but for some reason I knew I wasn't allowed to step into the house.
But! Looking towards the back interior of the house,through a hallway,saw mum standing at the sink washing dishes. She never turned around.
She was still here,alive and thriving so why was she allowed inside?
Strangely enough,she passed a few years after.

Dreams are strange things, Petal, and controversial discussions can ensue about them. So let me get one rolling here!

Some contend that the soul or mind or psyche leaves the body and travels when we sleep. Others dispute this. Some say that some dreams are a result of this soul travel, but other dreams aren't.

If both you and your mother's souls were traveling to the spirit world / etheric plane at the time, that is indeed a mystery: why could she enter the place of no return (but come back), when you couldn't?

Persoanlly I'm more inclined to the view that dreams represent our subconscious minds at work, then our souls at travel. And anything is possible then.

Unless it was my own mind inserting her into my dream,dad there and so I wanted her with him.
Well,she is now,Jim.

Did your mother die soon after this, Petal? Perhaps your mind was receiving a premonition of her death?

Jim

Left Behind wrote:

petal34 wrote:

Left Behind wrote:

petal34 wrote:That brought to mind a dream I had shortly after my dad 'died'.
A perfectly common place dream.
Walking up a tree lined street,saw my dad standing at the front door of a house.
Big smile on his face. I walked up the front door,no words spoken. Just so pleased to see him but for some reason I knew I wasn't allowed to step into the house.
But! Looking towards the back interior of the house,through a hallway,saw mum standing at the sink washing dishes. She never turned around.
She was still here,alive and thriving so why was she allowed inside?
Strangely enough,she passed a few years after.

Dreams are strange things, Petal, and controversial discussions can ensue about them. So let me get one rolling here!

Some contend that the soul or mind or psyche leaves the body and travels when we sleep. Others dispute this. Some say that some dreams are a result of this soul travel, but other dreams aren't.

If both you and your mother's souls were traveling to the spirit world / etheric plane at the time, that is indeed a mystery: why could she enter the place of no return (but come back), when you couldn't?

Persoanlly I'm more inclined to the view that dreams represent our subconscious minds at work, then our souls at travel. And anything is possible then.

Unless it was my own mind inserting her into my dream,dad there and so I wanted her with him.
Well,she is now,Jim.

Did your mother die soon after this, Petal? Perhaps your mind was receiving a premonition of her death?

Jim

A few years after,Jim. Personally I feel that mother was an addition to the dream only because of 'dreaming' of my father. They were together for over 60 years.
Strange though that I should dream of her last night.
Dressed very smartly and smiling as she used to do in life.

Loved ones in spirit may come to us in dreams when the barriers of the conscious mind are off duty. Sometimes its just a dream other times its a link. Most mediums have given.......
'S/He tells me that s/he has visited you in dreams'