SNU CLOSING CHURCHES

This is a new thread created to facilitate  discussion about the closing of SNU churches and possible alternate uses for them.

HERE IS HIGH5's POST FROM  Why is there a Clash between the Tutors and the AFC Part 2

Post by High5 Yesterday at 19:20

hiya Admin,
please advice:
When gathering thoughts how churches could be saved...where could the topic go...please

ie: if the Barbanell Centre is not profitable after undergoing such extensive renovations, wouldn’t it make sense to lease it to the government to accommodate migrants? After all, the government is paying vast sums to hoteliers – why not to the SNU?

The same could also apply to the churches that are being sold.

What would speak against it?

High5

Admin wrote:HERE IS HIGH5's POST FROM  Why is there a Clash between the Tutors and the AFC Part 2

Post by High5 Yesterday at 19:20

hiya Admin,
please advice:
When gathering thoughts how churches could be saved...where could the topic go...please

ie: if the Barbanell Centre is not profitable after undergoing such extensive renovations, wouldn’t it make sense to lease it to the government to accommodate migrants? After all, the government is paying vast sums to hoteliers – why not to the SNU?

The same could also apply to the churches that are being sold.

What would speak against it?

High5

A very interesting point High5

I think before we go to your ideas we should also clarify some critical points

Well the Barbanell Centre was according to JW's AGM report

"The Barbanell Centre

The Barbanell Centre has been invaluable in 2023 as a centre that hosts many SNU events and has helped support the Education and Exponents Committee with final assessments across full range of awards that the SNU offers.

Training of Ministers, lecturers, exponents and teachers also takes place within the Centre, assisting them to promote the religion of Spiritualism to the highest standard whether in our Churches, on-line or in promotion the religion of Spiritualism in the wider community.

The Centre has hosted 2 NEC meetings and 2 District Council meetings which allow our members to meet together in person and discus and deliberate how our churches and centres can move forward and promote our religion.

The Centre has also hosted a number of specialists days such as a Healing Day, and intensive CSNUs & d and DSNU s & d training courses. The Centre has a good relationship with the Winfred Gandine-Stanton Trust and has hosted a weekend course, with further courses planned for 2024 and beyond. The courses offered in 2023 have been extremely varied and the Centre is constantly looking to expand the programme and keep the courses as cost effective as possible to service the needs of international and UK based students and visitors.

In 2023 new 6/7-day courses included Intermediate/advance Mediumship, Trance controlled Mediumship and Trance. The Centre has worked with North Yorkshire District Council to host a weekends personalised to their churches. It is hoped to develop this further with more Districts in 2024.  The promotion of events through social media has seen an uptake in visitors in 2023.

The Centre would like to thank Penny Hayward (OSNU) and her research team for hosting the recent Science Day. This pioneering work has motivated all who attended to experiment using activities provided in Churches, in groups and individually. It was a truly innovative and enjoyable day with more sessions planned in the future.

The Centre plans to expand the programme in 2024 which will no doubt bring a different dynamic to the Barbanell with a German week and a Swedish week. The Centre is also working in with the community offering a facility for training working for external organisations such as the NHS, and Women’s aid.

Many of the activities at the Barbanell Centre are centred around supporting the training and development of all Spiritualists, as well as acting as a meeting place for committees and the ANNUAL REPORT 2023/24 By using the Centre in this way, the charity does not have to meet the costs of external accommodation and room hire, and the cost to the Centre of hosting SNU committee activities is reimbursed to the Centre from Head Office.

During the year, the Barbanell Centre reported a loss of £64,796. (2022: (£48,414)) The Centre would like to thank, visitors, exponents and tutors for your kind and positive feedback. ANNUAL REPORT 2023/24"

I would like to add to this that the Barbanell Centre was charged a portion of head office costs all activities are charged this on the basis of the revenue it earns (It is also the reason the AFC never seems able to make a "profit" in AGM reports). So how much of the loss was real and saved by the closure and how much was through costs re charged to it that now have to be borne by other activities is hard to tell

So as we entered September 2024 it appeared that the Barbanell Centre had a "Rosy Future" but JW then said that the then NEC had already decided on its closure pending approval by the incoming NEC. Its no wonder the members never saw the closure coming. I have to think that, losing 21 Tutors meant that it was impossible to double up courses between the AFC and Barbanell Centre especially as those 21 have been banned from entry into either centre. Has to have impacted the decision somewhere.

Now the Barbanell Centre was always seen as a white elephant, to give it any chance the NEC injected extra investment in creating onsite accomodation. By report it is not attractively placed, in an industrail area which will not help a resale recover expenditure.

To go straight to this one, as a place for immigrants, I could not see why this should not be considered. It is an SNU property that may well be over capitalised for the area, and a sale could create a substantial loss. If a rental could be obtained, which provided sufficient of a return on investment for a trust fund, then any sensible trustee should consider that move.

As to the churches then there is a problem based in the arrangements that took the individual Church into the trust.

In the case of Stafford Church they were relocated into the Barbanell Centre and their original premises sold and placed into the trust. The closure of the Barbanell Centre will mean they are homeless, especially once the property is sold or leased.

However, that places them in no different situation to the other 4 buildings that are being sold and the churches "closed."

The closure/sale of premises does not close the church, "theoretically" it continues in existence whilst it has a committee and members. You could only contemplate a lease at a favourable rate if the Church committee had, for some reason, decided a permanent closure was the only way forward so the property would be vacated.

The trust rules are that, if a building is to be shut, then if the church continues, its committee will be helped to find alternate short stay premises, and then help to find suitable new premises to buy. The funds received from the sale of the premises are allocated to that church within the trust for use in a subsequent purchase.

The churches have to be sold, to generate the funds to buy new premises. They cannot be rented. The rules make that clear and it makes sense. Closure is often opposed by committees, who feel that money could usefully be used for repair (The Walthamstow Facebook page makes that point quite clearly). The majority also show that they are determined to make a go of it, even Walthamstow (most of these Churches have Facebook pages or a social media presence through a committed member which indicate they are trying).

So JW can claim that no churches have closed, for now! But it does not talk to the churches, or members, by just deflecting from the problems all 5 face through the SNU deciding buildings are no longer suitable or repairable.

The reality is that to arise, like a phoenix after using temporary premises (if these can be found and are economically viable) is a herculean project. The committees are volunteers, you may find a Sunday venue, but one for circles and healing may not be available. Then are they close enough to your members base, or will they move elsewhere? Can affordable alternate premises be found?

Thus Stafford is now in the same boat as the other 4. Their premises (not those in the Barbanell Centre but those they previously worked out of)  have been sold and the value received for its old premises, plus accumulated interest from its investment, is available to their committee to buy a new property.

It is clearly a high profile case, so I am sure the SNU will try really hard to relocate it temporarily and then permanently. However as a result of being in the Barbanell Centre it had access to a good pool of mediums which may not now be available. However, it will all take time and if their move fails, it will just be a quiet church closure one or more years down the track. In reality it has a greater chance of succes than many.

Runcorn is also receiving amazing support, now in temporary premises , fundraisers from PJ, SU and Jason Rothwell (the latter twice). It seems to be a vibrant determined community but it helps with influential people around and another SNU church in support.

The last 3, Sheffield, Hounslow and Walthamstow do not seem to be getting the same support from a perusal of their social media presence. So it's tough going.

I have heard of several other churches, if anyone knows of them it would be interesting to hear about it.

Admin wrote:Thus Stafford is now in the same boat as the other 4. Their premises have been sold and the value received for its old premises, plus accumulated interest from its investment, is available to their committee to buy a new property.

Many thanks for describing in detail, and your insights!!!

Please elaborate mor on the Stafford case...

what exactly is meant by "premises  sold"...which part(s), please?

..(I remember their is a huge parking lot and a fenced meditation garten, and of cause the lovely church building itself (huge venue for approx. 150-200 seats, Excellent wheelchair access and disabled toilets, mini library and 2-3 smaller lecture rooms, as well as the industrial kitchen and the cafeteria with approx. 50 seats)

...all these are already sold and gone???

Perhaps you could draw in the map, what parts are sold already, please?

so the nly thing left is the 2 floor building with the accomodation (15 luxury rooms)???

Here are the photos:




https://barbanellcentre.org/accommodation/
https://vimeo.com/331401486

the garden does legally belong to William Roache?

Apologies High5 my reference to the sale of Stafford Church was to the original Church from where they moved into the Barbanell Centre. As far as I know none of the Centre buildings have been sold.

The Garden is named in memory of Christine Galloway and was officially opened by William Roache - it is not his garden.

I should wear my reading glasses more often...
indeed I read "owned" not "opened"...