Why is there a Clash between the Tutors and the AFC Part 2

Anniemillo1 wrote:Hi,

Has anyone noticed the supplement charged for overseas students at the AFC?   I can understand the payment for a translator, but how much does the translator receive?

they get paid per session they work and their travel costs, I was told by a translator. It's not a lot per session, but it's enjoyable work for many of them.

The average that each student is paying £145. The Swiss are paying £165 on one of their weeks, the German's have a week at £155  The poor Japanese students have to pay £420 EACH.  I'm sorry but seeing the list that has come up on Facebook it looks like greed to me and others. That's an awful lot of money on top of the course fee, the travel expenses and the old story of unknown tutors.  Makes the new place some of the tutors are going to a better option.

Now remember there is no place for dissension in the SNU today the correct attitude is.



Clearly dissenters will be tracked down and duly punished


Hmm is there any resemblance to those bowing above and the NEC? I suppose not.

Hi,   I have heard through the grapevine, so I cannot confirm that this is true or a rumour but perhaps some others may be able to shed some light.

Simon and Brian from Canada have sold their church in Canada and are currently house hunting in Cambridge.   It is believed that they lost a lot of their congregation because of the tythe.

If it is true that would explain why they have been featured so much in the AFC and not going home to take care of their Church.

So we have JW who was voted in by a minority of members, NEC who was not voted in, PJ who was previously banished from the AFC, and Scott Milligan who has also been banished from the AFC and now Brian and Simon (if the rumour is true) what a mottly crew, yet members are still putting their trust in the NEC for me it beggars belief.

Anniemillo1 wrote:Hi,   I have heard through the grapevine, so I cannot confirm that this is true or a rumour but perhaps some others may be able to shed some light.

Simon and Brian from Canada have sold their church in Canada and are currently house hunting in Cambridge.   It is believed that they lost a lot of their congregation because of the tythe.

If it is true that would explain why they have been featured so much in the AFC and not going home to take care of their Church.

So we have JW who was voted in by a minority of members, NEC who was not voted in, PJ who was previously banished from the AFC, and Scott Milligan who has also been banished from the AFC and now Brian and Simon (if the rumour is true) what a mottly crew, yet members are still putting their trust in the NEC for me it beggars belief.

It's not much to get excited about is it? Pathetic really. And the numbers will dwindle yet, just wait and see.
Stansted Hall will go up for sale before long, I'll bet my pension on it

Anniemillo1 wrote:Hi,   I have heard through the grapevine, so I cannot confirm that this is true or a rumour but perhaps some others may be able to shed some light.

Simon and Brian from Canada have sold their church in Canada and are currently house hunting in Cambridge.   It is believed that they lost a lot of their congregation because of the tythe.

If it is true that would explain why they have been featured so much in the AFC and not going home to take care of their Church.

So we have JW who was voted in by a minority of members, NEC who was not voted in, PJ who was previously banished from the AFC, and Scott Milligan who has also been banished from the AFC and now Brian and Simon (if the rumour is true) what a mottly crew, yet members are still putting their trust in the NEC for me it beggars belief.

Thanks Anniemillo1 I have hunted the web about the Inner Quest, nothing up there suggesting its closing indeed a couple of events for next year. They have another Minister there, a CSNU who has become a Minister of the Inner Quest, who may be looking after business.

However, that place cannot be cheap to run so its quite possible change is occurring but behind the scenes. Actually Simon is, quite openly, a member on here but has hardly ever posted.

Now tything is a hard one, we could not do it at the centre I am leader of because, whilst a Charity, exempt from tax, stamp duty and rates, we cannot offer someone who donates to us the right to deduct that donation for his personal tax purpose as we are religious other i.e not part of a registered approved religious body. My mind says that as the tax law in Canada, the UK and Australia have similarities to the UK then no independent church, like Inner Quest, in any of those countries, can grant this. It is the ability for an individual to get a tax deduction for the tythe he pays out, from his income which makes it viable for individuals. So tything is not really viable without this tax relief. However, in the UK the SNU almost certainly can take donations and , like all mainstream churches, they will be tax deductible for the individual.

Really a throw back to the days of the parish having the major role in poor relief, when the poor received nothing from the Government (and as little from the poor relief as the parish council decided). Hence the hiring fares, and efforts to ensure people left the parish before they became entitled to relief)

However, it is an anachronism now especially as the big one's, like Scientology, Pentacostalim and those churches linked to the USA's Assemblies of God (like the huge Hillsong Church in Aus,) have virtually zero outreach help programs. Their funds go to the pastors (read owners) and missionary work to increase money (read income). Traditional Churches do tend to try and use funds on outreach assistance.

We will need to keep an eye on developments here, I think the status of Simon and Brian in all of this is fascinating but it does tend to look like they are in the inner ring.

I have the distinct impression that Simon and Brian have more on their agenda than simply teaching at the college. It would be unfortunate if JW and PJ were to be misled by them.

SJ & BR have heavily invested in SNU/AFC all of a sudden,
Integral on the ministry committee, the face of AFC, multiple pictures a day of themselves.
Rumour has it they are just waiting for the fall of JW and they are in the perfect position to take over.
I expect it's all being calculated behind JW back and she thinks she's the one in control...

aurora wrote:I have the distinct impression that Simon
and Brian have more on their agenda than simply teaching at the college. It would be unfortunate if JW and PJ were to be misled by them.

The FB pictures are always very effectively staged, almost as if they were both living in the AFC. A bit old-fashioned, a bit too old-fashioned for the younger students. For a fresh start, both probably need a steady income and one as President and the other as Programme Liaison both would have a paid job. The idea is tempting. Have JW and PJ thought about it? Or are they both too naive for that?

It is interesting that SJ and BR couldn't be seen for dust when the lucrative concession weeks were stopped a few years back. Now the college and SNU is in freefall, they are back and rumour has it, house hunting locally. They also have been allowed to run their highly lucrative weeks again. How convenient this reappearance seems!

Add to this, a decent Ministers committee were recently replaced by them and their very close friend Sandie Hagger (who nobody has heard of for years at the college and the SNU) and we have the nepo bunch back in control again.

JW needs to heed this. She needs to go herself but the potential for a coup is building momentum with those she thought she could trust, to save her bacon.

Should any of this happen, many will be straight on to the Charities Commission, who have already recently marked the card of the SNU and will keep it on record forthwith.

Nobody is safe in their roles and nobody should be fooled by these hidden agendas.

The SNU and the AFC are in deep dark murky water. There are currently massive legal actions building, which could bring it all to its knees.
If anyone resigns, the current NEC would do well not to install their friends and instead, work to a democratic process of rebuilding the organisations and the trust of all with people who are skilled and good at 'bridge building.'

I will add the new Roll Call as another good person has been added. Plus soon we expect another significant resignation:

Here is a roll call of honour of the growing list of people and who are believed to have resigned or had to withdraw their services or awards, since Jackie Wright became President. The list is growing and amongst some, are employment tribunals which are either ongoing or have been won in the complainants favour. I have removed surnames :

20 AFC Tutors plus Minister Matthew (withdrawn services)

Members and Staff who have either resigned or been pushed from committees, voluntary roles, or paid employment:

Christine
Alv
Ann
Danny
Pat
Jane
Anne-Marie
Adam
Richard
Rachel (SNU)
Julia  (Resigned as elected Vice President)
Alessandro (AFC )
Dean (AFC)
Tanya AFC
Kelly (AFC )
Will (AFC)
Minister Libby
Keith
Graham
Simone (SNUI)
Colin
Lyn


Current Legal Proceedings Against The SNU

Employment Tribunals x 2
Civil Proceedings x 1
Legal proceedings x 20

SNU Centres and Churches For Sale

The Barbanell Centre
Walthamstow
Hounslow (Under offer)
Sheffield
Darlington
Runcorn
Stafford

I was told by an ex congregation member of the church that is ran by SJ and BR that herself and others were contributing a percentage of their salary to the church. Sounds more like cult culture then Spiritualism.
This lady luckily got away a while ago, but its very sad that she was caught up in this in the first place. I'm sure it's a disappointment for them all on hearing this news

It could be that the SNU is jumping from the frying pan into the fire. We have to vote again. Otherwise there will be no positive new start. And the SNU needs this more urgently than ever before.

The amount of people who have left on this list, and legal proceedings makes it unbelievable that someone responsible for it all is still in position?
One common denominator.
And CC have their misdemeanors on record. I'm sure more people will be jumping ship very soon.

notabigjump wrote:It is interesting that SJ and BR couldn't be seen for dust when the lucrative concession weeks were stopped a few years back. Now the college and SNU is in freefall, they are back and rumour has it, house hunting locally. They also have been allowed to run their highly lucrative weeks again. How convenient this reappearance seems!

Add to this, a decent Ministers committee were recently replaced by them and their very close friend Sandie Hagger (who nobody has heard of for years at the college and the SNU) and we have the nepo bunch back in control again.

JW needs to heed this. She needs to go herself but the potential for a coup is building momentum with those she thought she could trust, to save her bacon.

Should any of this happen, many will be straight on to the Charities Commission, who have already recently marked the card of the SNU and will keep it on record forthwith.

Nobody is safe in their roles and nobody should be fooled by these hidden agendas.

The SNU and the AFC are in deep dark murky water. There are currently massive legal actions building, which could bring it all to its knees.
If anyone resigns, the current NEC would do well not to install their friends and instead, work to a democratic process of rebuilding the organisations and the trust of all with people who are skilled and good at 'bridge building.'

I will add the new Roll Call as another good person has been added. Plus soon we expect another significant resignation:

Here is a roll call of honour of the growing list of people and who are believed to have resigned or had to withdraw their services or awards, since Jackie Wright became President. The list is growing and amongst some, are employment tribunals which are either ongoing or have been won in the complainants favour. I have removed surnames :

20 AFC Tutors plus Minister Matthew (withdrawn services)

Members and Staff who have either resigned or been pushed from committees, voluntary roles, or paid employment:

Christine
Alv
Ann
Danny
Pat
Jane
Anne-Marie
Adam
Richard
Rachel (SNU)
Julia  (Resigned as elected Vice President)
Alessandro (AFC )
Dean (AFC)
Tanya AFC
Kelly (AFC )
Will (AFC)
Minister Libby
Keith
Graham
Simone (SNUI)
Colin
Lyn


Current Legal Proceedings Against The SNU

Employment Tribunals x 2
Civil Proceedings x 1
Legal proceedings x 20

SNU Centres and Churches For Sale

The Barbanell Centre
Walthamstow
Hounslow (Under offer)
Sheffield
Darlington
Runcorn
Stafford

Something is going very wrong, and it's time to take action! Waiting until the complaints of the 20 become public is painful, so let's take the initiative and make a change. The AFC is on a downward trend, despite the colourful pictures. The building looks like it is in pain in the pictures. Let's start a new wave of protest! We can do this! Or do we all want to wait and drink tea? And later say: No, I didn't notice anything. We can change this! More people could actively participate in this forum and pass on the information they have. Something has to change. We can't wait and see. We can do this!

Light-Nature-Truth wrote:The amount of people who have left on this list, and legal proceedings makes it unbelievable that someone responsible for it all is still in position?
One common denominator.
And CC have their misdemeanors on record. I'm sure more people will be jumping ship very soon.

It's going to be quite some legacy she will be remembered for. Everyone on that list out of action, 21  esteemed tutors walking out, a closed training centre, churches for sale and all the byelaw shenanigans. The bullying allegations alone are enough, but there is just so much and only so long before the supporters see the wool has been pulled over their eyes. What a legacy indeed!

She should go with what dignity there is left, before its all gone. Tell everyone she did her best and just go quickly.

Then a true policy of equal opportunities must be implemented. No more jobs and committees for your mates. Because they could turn at any time and are not the best people for the job.

Time is running out for her and the SNU.

Let me add - these legal cases will drain all the finances of the organisation and bring the CC to the door to oversee everything. It is the 11th hour now and there are too many heads stuck in the sand to see the big picture.

It may be the case that some SNU members are not yet fully aware of the extent of this issue. If we are not careful, with SJ & BR, we may find ourselves moving in a direction that is not beneficial for the SNU. There are some other individuals who could potentially lead the SNU well into the future. Many of their names are on the list of those who have resigned or been removed from their roles.

aurora wrote:It may be the case that some SNU members are not yet fully aware of the extent of this issue. If we are not careful, with SJ & BR, we may find ourselves moving in a direction that is not beneficial for the SNU. There are some other individuals who could potentially lead the SNU well into the future. Many of their names are on the list of those who have resigned or been removed from their roles.

Where are all the other Ministers, OSNU's etc in all this, surely they are not totally unaware of what is going on within their Union? If enough of them stepped forward and said they wanted a meeting and the ones who have been threatened and bullied all came forward and spoke out maybe something will get done, and yes maybe dare the president to throw them out of the Union, what would happen? Could they refuse to go, what could she do then, what could any of them do? I know the tutors involved in the dispute cannot speak yet but surely the rest of their colleagues not affiliated with those who are presently in charge stand up and be counted. What is the point of standing up and speaking about Truth and the Principles and then looking the other way when their Union is on its knees and crying out for help. What happened to Personal Responsibility? If they love and respect their Union why are they allowing all this to happen. Maybe they need to be reminded of the 6th Principle Compensation and Retribution Hereafter for all the Good and Evil Deeds done on Earth.....You Reap What You Sow.... and from where I'm standing what they are going to be left with will be a laughing stock to all.

OnlyVisitingEarth wrote:

aurora wrote:It may be the case that some SNU members are not yet fully aware of the extent of this issue. If we are not careful, with SJ & BR, we may find ourselves moving in a direction that is not beneficial for the SNU. There are some other individuals who could potentially lead the SNU well into the future. Many of their names are on the list of those who have resigned or been removed from their roles.

Where are all the other Ministers, OSNU's etc in all this,  surely they are not totally unaware of what is going on within their Union?  If enough of them stepped forward and said they wanted a meeting and the ones who have been threatened and bullied all came forward and spoke out maybe something will get done, and yes maybe dare the president to throw them out of the Union,  what would happen?   Could they refuse to go, what could she do then, what could any of them do?   I know the tutors involved in the dispute cannot speak yet but surely the rest of their colleagues not affiliated with those who are presently in charge stand up and be counted.   What is the point of standing up and speaking about Truth and the Principles  and then looking the other way when their Union is on its knees and crying out for help.

I can't speak for them but maybe the answer is found within why we all use pseudonyms and not real names. We ask ourselves why we do this and we might get close to the answer. Just a thought.

OnlyVisitingEarth wrote: Where are all the other Ministers, OSNU's etc in all this,  surely they are not totally unaware of what is going on within their Union?  If enough of them stepped forward and said they wanted a meeting and the ones who have been threatened and bullied all came forward and spoke out maybe something will get done, and yes maybe dare the president to throw them out of the Union,  what would happen?   Could they refuse to go, what could she do then, what could any of them do?   I know the tutors involved in the dispute cannot speak yet but surely the rest of their colleagues not affiliated with those who are presently in charge stand up and be counted.   What is the point of standing up and speaking about Truth and the Principles  and then looking the other way when their Union is on its knees and crying out for help.  What happened to Personal Responsibility?  If they love and respect their Union why are they allowing all this to happen.  Maybe they need to be reminded of the 6th Principle Compensation and Retribution Hereafter for all the Good and Evil Deeds done on Earth.....You Reap What You Sow....  and from where I'm standing what they are going to be left with will be a laughing stock to all.

It's too late for a mutiny, that time has passed. The opportunity to make a stand should have been taken at the AGM, but it wasn't. Now most of those left (not all) are thoroughbred JW supporters, who can see no wrong.
People have been grieving the 'loss' of the college for a while now. The wheels are still turning, but progress is grinding to a halt. What will be, will be, and nothing lasts forever. Maybe it's time for something new.

Light-Nature-Truth wrote:The amount of people who have left on this list, and legal proceedings makes it unbelievable that someone responsible for it all is still in position?
One common denominator.
And CC have their misdemeanors on record. I'm sure more people will be jumping ship very soon.

The numbers are shocking as are the very carefully sculpted pictures.

Someone pointed out an interesting thing to me



Image 1 AJD        Image 2 SJ

As a digression
Fascinating really, AJD is heavily linked with the movement in the USA but was never really part of it, despite his many efforts early Spiritualists managed to keep him at arms length. In the UK he was rarely mentioned, yet it appears this is the persona that is now in the Ministerial Committee.

Yes AJD's Harmonial Brotherhood and its Declaration of Spiritual Independence, was probably the first effort at a declaration of Principles June 21 1851 ( https://www.spiritualismlink.com/t127-1864-and-the-first-accepted-principles-of-spiritualism). The thing that people feel links him to us was his apparent diary not eon the 31st March 1848 "The great work has begun", the reality is that this was first heard of when the diaries were published in 1865 when he was bidding for a place in the Spiritualist Hierarchy. However, his words at the 30th anniversary of Spiritualism does form a valid link as did his opposition to Mdm Blavatsky https://www.spiritualismlink.com/t656-the-three-strands-of-spiritualism-andrew-jackson-davis.

I will leave that subject there but SJ's sudden involvement in a new Ministerial Committee show a strong swing back towards the SNU at a time when tithing may have weakened his own centre. I think the speculation that he may  be positioning himself to make a challenge, from an apparent place at the centre of JW's camp must be possible. The comment about his Inner Quest Centre becoming cult like I have heard from others. Of course one of the other cults that of KMR is only just across the water in the USA Keith Milton Rhinehart's Acquarian Frontiers.

Admin wrote: Someone pointed out an interesting thing to me



Image 1 AJD                                        Image 2 SJ

Admin, you might be right about motivation, but I think SJ is subtly trying to model himself on Sir William Crookes  

Slatewriter wrote:

Admin wrote: Someone pointed out an interesting thing to me



Image 1 AJD                                        Image 2 SJ

Admin, you might be right about motivation, but I think SJ is subtly trying to model himself on Sir William Crookes  

Andrew William Jackson Sir Davis Crookes James what a moniker

I know SJ’s hero within the movement is AJD and I have heard him talk about him on many occasions. Many of us have noted over the past decade how SJ has increasingly styled himself to look like AJD.

These are copies of part of a post and statements made on Facebook. I don’t want to mention the names because as we know one of the SNU Ministers resigned lately due to the President shouting down the telephone regarding her behaviour as a Minister. by commenting on a friend's post.


Compensation and Retribution hereafter;

I was talking with a friend this morning who explained to me whilst attending a workshop, a Minister of the Spiritualist Union, tore too pieces the 6th Principle….essentially saying there is no such thing and the principle needs throwing out! Having seen what I have by journeying through the spirit, whilst I accept the principle may need REWORDING…..it most certainly should not be thrown out or dismissed.

These are some of the comments

It wasn’t ‘a minister’, it was the President. Basically, she was saying, what if that was the path they agreed upon before coming to the physical world, ie Hitler.


I was also at this workshop the president implied that the principal in her view shouldn't be there and gave her reason for this. Maybe someone at the workshop has repeated her words?


though not entirely sure the merits of someone arguing for the removal of a principle we are actually all asked to sign up to upon becoming a member.

It seems a bit off to ask people to become members of a religion and back a serious of principles to which your philosophy is tied, which you yourself view as wrong.


I agree because this was one of the points raised when the President was trying to dishonour the TSFellowship (now Psyche). Now then, who is going to make that telephone call and scream that it was inappropriate behaviour as a Minister of the SNU, let alone the President, in a workshop, and that it brought the SNU into disrepute by saying that she doesn’t really abide fully by the Principles on which the Spiritualist National Union is based upon, although she signed a declaration that she did? I’m sure the Bye laws have a clause about this and any of us minions would be booted out. Oh wait, the rules do not seem to apply to the President and the NEC.

Isn't there a saying about imitation " Imitation is the highest form of flattery" or words to that effect. Well we are all warned about buying imitation goods, they rarely live up to our expectations, we realise we have been conned and wasted our well earned money on substandard merchandise, they can also be very hazardous to our health, like setting fire to all we hold dear and destroying it.
When you listen to what has been said over the months, we have one turning into an old pioneer, we have one sprouting words from two other pioneers with one of their photo's positioned over said sprouters right shoulder as though they have given permission to use their words. And last but not least we have one lamenting that there isn't a saint named after them and there should be. I rest my case.