Why is there a Clash between the Tutors and the AFC Part 2

I agree, it's quite shameful really.
It reminds me of the pit strikes in the 80's because of Thatcher and those still going known as scabs.
Problem is those new tutors just don't pull in the students.
It takes time and experience to gain the respect that those tutors in exile have. And very little respect is the cost of the actions of those left at the college I'm afraid.

notabigjump wrote:

aurora wrote:The official list is already long enough, but the unofficial list of all those who are dissatisfied, angry, demotivated is getting longer and longer every day.

I'm personally disappointed with the tutors who still put up with it at the AFC. Haven't you understood what's happening right now? The president of the SNU and her followers, manipulated by her, are currently destroying everything that the pioneers and all voluntary supporters and members have built up in 124 years. If you have a spark of decency now, then you too go on strike and don't use the situation to secure a place at the AFC. This seems like eating leftovers – we as students see what happens and we would never book a course with somebody who has not the courage to stand up for others.

It is time NOW.

You are spot on! Many of those new tutors have been taught, nurtured and mentored by the tutors in exile and now no longer listed at the AFC website. Those in exile have stood up and been counted at great cost to them personally, so ALL tutors will be treated with fairness and dignity.

Shame on those for putting their ambition before supporting those excellent tutors who helped them achieve their dreams, assessments, skills and gave them time, emotional and practical support for many years. What a kick in teeth. Those who remain need to all stand up and say enough!

Slatewriter wrote:

aurora wrote:None of the 21 Tutors are on the official AFC Website anymore. It seems JW made the cut she wanted.

will the photos on the wall be next?

How many Tutors are left and I do not mean the Specials.

Frankly I am astonished this would be done before the legal cases are finalised. Until that is over these people are still tutors and also members of the SNU. Not sure the Courts will like this arbitrary step albeit everyone knows that JW insist they can never come back to the AFC. OK the Judges may not insist they are taken back but it's going to crank up the damages settlement imposed on the SNU when they lose, its gotta hurt badly. How many cases, at well over100,000 pounds each, plus the complainants legal fees. That may make the moribund members wake up and ask questions and the charities commission shift their gears

Their membership rights and the disagreement with the AFC over the contracts are separate issues. They should, legally, retain their SNU membership regardless of that result and any dismissal of membership should be subject to the non existent complaints committee (non existent ever since that committee found in the tutors favour over their AFC complaint). The SNU has no complaints committee apparently, fit for any purpose, and the SNU Bye Laws insist that members should have one to support them. I smell the scent of more legal fees.

Those photo's they were removed with JW's at the top of the new set but put back on the wall. Anyone got a recent picture?

By the way, if the AFC becomes less of a drawcard, numbers drop off, so courses do not run I just wonder if people would like to guess who will present most of them?

Admin wrote:
How many Tutors are left and I do not mean the Specials.

Frankly I am astonished this would be done before the legal cases are finalised. Until that is over these people are still tutors and also members of the SNU. Not sure the Courts will like this arbitrary step albeit everyone knows that JW insist they can never come back to the AFC. OK the Judges may not insist they are taken back but it's going to crank up the damages settlement imposed on the SNU when they lose, its gotta hurt badly. How many cases, at well over100,000 pounds each, plus the complainants legal fees. That may make the moribund members wake up and ask questions and the charities commission shift their gears

On a quick glance if you exclude guests, specials, those who haven't taught for around 10 years and the deceased, around 30 are fully approved tutors on the list.

If this did go the full legal route, a tribunal ruling can insist they are reinstated and the SNU/AFC will have to comply. The fees and compensation would be a massive 'hit' to the charity and one it would have difficulty recovering from.

Their membership rights and the disagreement with the AFC over the contracts are separate issues. They should, legally, retain their SNU membership regardless of that result and any dismissal of membership should be subject to the non existent complaints committee (non existent ever since that committee found in the tutors favour over there AFC complaint). The SNU has no complaints committee apparently fit for any person and the SNU Bye Laws insist that members should have one to support them. I smell the scent of more legal fees.

The fact that the complaints procedures and Bye Laws have changed so much will not play out well for the SNU. It shows disregard for the care of members should they need support, and a desperate attempt at personal preservation for the President.

Those photo's they were removed with JW's at the top of the new set but put back on the wall. Anyone got a recent picture?

Not yet. It is later in the month that students return. I would urge them all when they start their courses, to ask the question of their tutors, 'why did you not support the 20 when they were fighting for your rights." No doubt they have been flattered by being given courses to run so early in their AFC careers and probably a false belief they are saving the college and honouring the bookings.

I am sure we will see more spin than Tony Blair in their course photos with comments such as "and those who had to leave early or are behind the camera" Behind the camera is a new one since this dispute started. Plus the over the top testimonials!

My take is that they are getting in to deep trouble and when this is finally resolved, it will leave many fractures. Those who falsely believed they were helping, may realise their loyalty to the college and selfish ambition, has been misplaced and the ones who gave them the most support won't need or want their services anymore.

Who said that here is no Complaints Committee?

Hidden in the link here:
https://www.snu.org.uk/Handlers/Download.ashx?IDMF=24147ff8-bfbf-45ba-909d-dc6b3392003e

Complaints Committee
Lorraine Gilbert-Grey (Chair); Loraine Todd; Sue Jex; Sue Coldwell; Helen Lomax; Jacky Ellis

SNU December circulation:

Dear Member/Secretary
The season's greetings to all our members and member bodies and we give you the following items
of news for your information and interest in this post-AGM circulation:-

Not re entering this debate but for interest the link below takes you to Tony Stockwell’s listing on the consultants page of The College of Psychic Studies where he is looking forward to working in the future. He announced this towards the end of his New Year message on his FB page.

https://www.collegeofpsychicstudies.co.uk/about-us/our-consultants/tony-stockwell/

aurora wrote:Who said that here is no Complaints Committee?

Hidden in the link here:
https://www.snu.org.uk/Handlers/Download.ashx?IDMF=24147ff8-bfbf-45ba-909d-dc6b3392003e

Complaints Committee
Lorraine Gilbert-Grey (Chair); Loraine Todd; Sue Jex; Sue Coldwell; Helen Lomax; Jacky Ellis

SNU December circulation:

Dear Member/Secretary
The season's greetings to all our members and member bodies and we give you the following items
of news for your information and interest in this post-AGM circulation:-

Yet as we know, if the President doesn't like the outcome of their findings, (as with the previous committee) they are disposed of very quickly and have to sign NDA's. So it is in name only and more of a vanity project.

Janhar wrote:Not re entering this debate but for interest the link below takes you to Tony Stockwell’s listing on the consultants page of The College of Psychic Studies where he is looking forward to working in the future. He announced this towards the end of his New Year message on his FB page.

https://www.collegeofpsychicstudies.co.uk/about-us/our-consultants/tony-stockwell/

Yes it is their gain indeed. He used to work there years ago.

It's terrible the hatred the president has on those exiled tutors. The proof is removing them and not the tutor that passed away. It shows a hate campaign in action.

Admin wrote:

Slatewriter wrote:

aurora wrote:None of the 21 Tutors are on the official AFC Website anymore. It seems JW made the cut she wanted.

will the photos on the wall be next?

How many Tutors are left and I do not mean the Specials.

Frankly I am astonished this would be done before the legal cases are finalised. Until that is over these people are still tutors and also members of the SNU. Not sure the Courts will like this arbitrary step albeit everyone knows that JW insist they can never come back to the AFC. OK the Judges may not insist they are taken back but it's going to crank up the damages settlement imposed on the SNU when they lose, its gotta hurt badly. How many cases, at well over100,000 pounds each, plus the complainants legal fees. That may make the moribund members wake up and ask questions and the charities commission shift their gears

Their membership rights and the disagreement with the AFC over the contracts are separate issues. They should, legally, retain their SNU membership regardless of that result and any dismissal of membership should be subject to the non existent complaints committee (non existent ever since that committee found in the tutors favour over their AFC complaint). The SNU has no complaints committee apparently, fit for any purpose, and the SNU Bye Laws insist that members should have one to support them. I smell the scent of more legal fees.

Those photo's they were removed with JW's at the top of the new set but put back on the wall. Anyone got a recent picture?

I was trying to stay away from commenting on this post but I have had a personal experience with JW during a course at AFC. She held a group talk on trance and afterwards invited members who have had trance experience to sit up beside her. My circle leader who at the time was in her late 60s put her hand up and sat beside JW, JW stood up and when my circle leader went under the influence of the Other World, JW rolled her eyes. Afterwards, JW while with the tutors mentioned (passed a comment about my circle leader) and the tutors KW and MF said they had been surprised with JW because my circle leader showed very good signs of trance influence. I never told my circle leader that because I did not want to hurt her feelings. JW is a nasty character and not at all spiritual.

InwardLight wrote:I was trying to stay away from commenting on this post but I have had a personal experience with JW during a course at AFC. She held a group talk on trance and afterwards invited members who have had trance experience to sit up beside her. My circle leader who at the time was in her late 60s put her hand up and sat beside JW, JW stood up and when my circle leader went under the influence of the Other World, JW rolled her eyes. Afterwards, JW while with the tutors mentioned (passed a comment about my circle leader) and the tutors KW and MF said they had been surprised with JW because my circle leader showed very good signs of trance influence. I never told my circle leader that because I did not want to hurt her feelings. JW is a nasty character and not at all spiritual.

I'm very sorry you had that experience with JW. It was unprofessional and cruel. Unfortunately, similar experiences have been reported too often.

notabigjump wrote:

InwardLight wrote:I was trying to stay away from commenting on this post but I have had a personal experience with JW during a course at AFC. She held a group talk on trance and afterwards invited members who have had trance experience to sit up beside her. My circle leader who at the time was in her late 60s put her hand up and sat beside JW, JW stood up and when my circle leader went under the influence of the Other World, JW rolled her eyes. Afterwards, JW while with the tutors mentioned (passed a comment about my circle leader) and the tutors KW and MF said they had been surprised with JW because my circle leader showed very good signs of trance influence. I never told my circle leader that because I did not want to hurt her feelings. JW is a nasty character and not at all spiritual.

I'm very sorry you had that experience with JW. It was unprofessional and cruel. Unfortunately, similar experiences have been reported too often.

We went on a day out to Cambridge I think the next day with our group and JW was on the day out and I stayed well away from her.

I'm trying hard to work out what type of Spiritualism the president of the SNU is actually preaching.  Lets face it, it's definitely NOT the Spiritualism I was taught by some of those wonderful striking tutors, who's names have now been removed from the college.

So was I taught incorrectly by the tutors, and the brand of Spiritualism that is being encouraged by the president in all its ugly glory is now the correct religion,  This parody is so far from what we know and love.  How can someone who has done so much harm, with a vindictivenesses that is truly shocking still be the president of the Union.  Hey you 30% who voted, is this the behaviour of a true Spiritualist?

I saw a posting from a church, waxing lyrical about the president but then she did give them a big fat donation.   Wonder what the churches who haven't got a penny off her think to this new improved Spiritualism.   Did the money come from the SNU coffers or the presidents own private little charity....You Scratch Mine, I'll Scratch Yours Charity, because it's getting increasingly obvious that is something very very wrong, and if the 30% want to sit on their butts and gaze at their navels and hum Dixie instead of using their brains and common sense to see what the rest of us see, then maybe they deserve what is being planned.  

I know there are people reading this who are pro president, so please let me know what it is that is so compelling with this new regime, I really would like to know!

I suspect many people may be surprised about the level of damages I have suggested if the tutors win. If you think back this all started nearly a year ago

The tutors made a complaint about the AFC, which was upheld by the Complaints Committee. The NEC rejected this finding and sacked the committee. The Chairman of the Committee is no longer the head of their District Council. The complaints were then sent off for some kind of arbitration

The AFC then presented all the Tutors with a new employment contract they had to sign to remain a tutor.  Lis with her legal background and  and I with my business experience would expect this would be struck down as unconscionable if legally challenged.

With no resolution of their complaint, and refusing to sign the new contract, the 20 Tutors had no alternative way forward, except to withdraw their services until matters were resolved.

The 20 Tutors have remained silent about their grievances, fulfilling their requirement under the NDA's they had to sign.

The 20 tutors have lost income, suffered damage to their professional reputation, both within the SNU and outside it, mainly through the actions and comments of the President of the SNU and others around her. Banning them from the AFC & Barbanell Centre & implying the tutors treated the AFC as a "Cash Cow" are just two examples.

The Tutors have attempted to reduce their economic loss by running courses, despite the SNU banning them from the AFC and Barbanell Centre (almost certainly helping to seal the latter's fate), and from what, as we hear, threatening attendees of their courses who are SNU members, or SNU Church Members, or SNU churches that may wish to use their skills. (shades of the events that happened after the NEC declared the TSFellowship an incompatible religious body).

Hmm., threatening their right to earn an income, interfering with their freedom to work and seek clients, withdrawing awards, banning them from working, taking away their SNU membership, oh dear its a lovely picture for a judge to order reinstatement or, alternately, significant damages.

Overall this is what this thread was started about. It does seem to me that it has found a new focus along the way. The issue of the 20 Tutors seems to be the tip of an iceberg, the portion unseen was  relating to the control, running and direction of the SNU.

The legal end to these disputes between the 20 Tutors and the AFC and SNU may end that matter. However, it could spill over into an ongoing fight about the direction the SNU. Whether the uninvolved, over 52% who failed to vote, are prepared to let a leader, who received only 28.2%  of the total votes available, do precisely as she wishes. Indeed with the Bye Law changes and the NEC's total control of the complaints committee, they may already be effectively disenfranchised.

I wonder if all the tutors who remained are behind the President or was their decision pragmatic reality (although I bet some sensed an opportunity). They do face a real and present threat. If the 20 Tutors are not reinstated they may well form a new teaching bloc using superior hotels. I would recommend them to anyone, because of both their skill base and the people themselves, In preference to the AFC offerings, although I know some who stayed are lovely people and fine tutors, there are some I would not say that of, and some at the AFC I know nothing of.

notabigjump wrote:

aurora wrote:Who said that here is no Complaints Committee?

-

Yet as we know, if the President doesn't like the outcome of their findings, (as with the previous committee) they are disposed of very quickly and have to sign NDA's. So it is in name only and more of a vanity project.

On top of that , as the new Bye Law says
Contact with Chief Administrative Officer
General Bye-laws
Amend all occurrences of the words 'head office', 'chief administrative officer', 'chief administrative
officer of the Union' and 'Chief Administrative Officer of the Union' to read 'head office of the Union'.
Purpose: These amendments provide that all forms of notice or notification formerly
required to be sent to the chief administrative officer of the Union may be given
by sending them to, or depositing them at, the Union's head office.
So who do we expect to be opening any complaints now received? In many ways the Chief Administrative Officer could be seen to be neutral but they and the Head of Governance have gone HQ is very small now.

Admin wrote:

I wonder if all the tutors who remained are behind the President or was their decision pragmatic reality (although I bet some sensed an opportunity). They do face a real and present threat. If the 20 Tutors are not reinstated they may well form a new teaching bloc using superior hotels. I would recommend them to anyone, because of both their skill base and the people themselves, In preference to the AFC offerings, although I know some who stayed are lovely people and fine tutors, there are some I would not say that of, and some at the AFC I know nothing of.

It is clear from social media, that the considerations of the tutors who are not part of the dispute, are not fully informed and in favour of the decisions that are being made by the President and the AFC committee.  One in particular was horrified yesterday to see that 20 of his esteemed colleagues, had simply been erased from the website!

Yet the 20 tutors haven’t left the SNU, nor has a resolution been reached. Furthermore, the AFC/SNU have left others on the list of teaching staff: one who is now deceased and others who are not teaching in 2025 and haven’t for many years. It is a total mess and a horrible shock for those still there.

Interestingly, some commentators are under the impression that the 20 tutors have been removed as they are unavailable to teach in 2025. This has never been stated by the 20. It was a decision taken by the collegiate committee without consultation with the 20 tutors. I am sure they would have hoped that the SNU would have worked faster and reasonably anticipated a mutually beneficial outcome long before this year.

At all times they have complied with the conditions on their NDA’s and been at the mercy of delay tactics, plus vindictive and punitive procedures.

If I was an AFC tutor right now, I would be very worried indeed. This dispute is not over. You are working for an establishment that is no longer considered a gold standard of teaching. Your seniors are manipulating their narrative to you and your students and your name can disappear overnight and nobody will say anything to you about it! Think it can’t happen to you too? Hmm

I agree notabigjump.  I like to call the 20 tutors Striking Tutors, like many others.  The definition of Striking in the Cambridge Dictionary "To refuse to continue working because of an argument with an employer about working conditions, pay levels, job cuts"  So to me they are striking tutors.
 So those walking through the college doors, rubbing their hands in glee at the thought of being a AFC tutor should think long and hard.  As already said, don't think you will not be next.  Do not think you will be exempt from PJ and the presidents control, and this will all settle down, one way or another.
But  do not think it will all be forgotten, that you crawled over the backs of your striking colleagues to that much dreamed of esteemed roll of working there
.
It's a bit of a waste really as the college was famous because of the tutors who worked there,  it''s not quite the same now, is it... 20 of their top internationally respected tutors erased from the website. so when you stand there on the Sanctuary platform, patting each other on the back for your good fortune, just remember the real reason you got there, not on merit, but because you cow towed to a group of people that will go for you next if you dared not do as you are told.....umm doesn't sound such a wonderful teaching roll now.....has it been worth it?  

I know other who have gone through the  delaying tricks while dealing with the NEC/SNU, they SNU knows it's in the wrong but they delay hoping the claimant's going to run out of money and back off, which sadly is the case most of the  time.

And this is the Spiritualism and leader your all want?

OnlyVisitingEarth wrote:I agree notabigjump.  .....

And this is the Spiritualism and leader your all want?

Well I know the electoral numbers are a bit rubbery but less than 30% of the possible votes were received by JW so over 70% of members were not showing support of her ideas for what she was then saying was her plan. Since that date (even before if you think of the Bye Laws she issued about the running of general and special meetings) her platform has become so extreme and her actions quite astonishing. I wonder if she could even get that many votes now.

The problem is only two candidates could stand and her opponent was even more disliked; between them they only generated enough interest so only 45% bothered to vote. Now the silent 50+% have allowed someone, who got less than 30% of voters to support them, to change the entire course of SNU Spiritualism. Towards a future that is not yet revealed. Way back at the start of part 1 of this thread,  I mentioned that someone private messaged me saying she was heading for a form of Scientology. Looking at SJ & BR's Inner Quest Model you can see elements of the new Spiritology we seem headed for.

That will be a lot less churches. Her trick is to keep big one's on board whilst settling on her targets, the dissenting churches and the little one's that probably are not really viable. Then make a switch saying that their financial reviews have suggested the SNU has to adopt a leaner profile to be more effective. If she can hold the 28% who support her and reduce the other memberships then her win in 2 years time will have a higher percentage of members voting for her. I wonder who has the strength of character and purpose to present their head above the parapet to be a unifying opposition leader.

Difficult when you would be denied access to any of the SNU's information channels.

Reading yesterday that the President is being true to her word off "making the culture of the Union one of service" I find myself like Onlyvisitingearth, indeed wondering what form of Spiritualism JW is following.

To my mind the majority of people within the Union have always been led by the notion of service, after all what do those hundreds of volunteers who open the churches day in and day out do it for, if not to be of service?

I find it curious that what she was trying to say really....was she was going to make her role, one off service....but now she is in the role, it is only about "self-service".... reforming the culture of the Union isnt done by having four people bob down to the college to give it a paint job (something i actually find worrying....after all all other religions do the same, demand free labour in return for some non-existant moral reward)

Reforming the Unions culture....starts by forming a NEC people can trust, it starts with a complaints committee that will act without thought or favour to any party but with a total focus on ensuring the rules are obeyed and everyone no matter how high up is subject to the same rules. Reforming the culture of the union, isnt done by dolling out £28k to a church on a whim, but having a genuinly meaningful process by which churches can bid for such funding and trust it will be given to those with the most need, not simply those who make a good photo opp or press briefing.

Moreover, the new "pamplet scheme" whilst a wonderful idea, really is in the hand off baffoons, JW couldnt discuss animal communication without causing a utterly chaotic mess and yet now deems herself fit to discuss a topic as huge as God.... PJ does not believe animals possess a conciousness or spirit like our own and has an incredibly poor moral compass, but in the weeks ahead he will no doubt be editing a pamplet likely with huge moral or ethical points to be made.

minerva12 wrote:Moreover, the new "pamplet scheme" whilst a wonderful idea, really is in the hand off baffoons, JW couldnt discuss animal communication without causing a utterly chaotic mess and yet now deems herself fit to discuss a topic as huge as God.... PJ does not believe animals possess a conciousness or spirit like our own and has an incredibly poor moral compass, but in the weeks ahead he will no doubt be editing a pamplet likely with huge moral or ethical points to be made.

Didn't the pamphlet scheme request others to send in their own essays on the subject of God? So, then what? Does the pamphleteer (or pamphlet team?) cherry pick the bits they like from the work of others, thereby doing much less work themselves?
I'm shaking my head in dismay at the very thought. What a shower of amateurs they are.

I was reading the comments left after a posting of the presidents photo op with AFC volunteers, must have been the same one as Minerva12. Seems everyone but the president knew that every year the volunteers turn up to help with the college tidy up. And yes I had to smile at the 'Service to the Union' part.
I did read about the pamphlets, surely all those up on the top tier should be able to write a good rousting essay on the subject of God, or are they so far removed from the true meaning of what it is to be a true Spiritualist, or to live the Seven Principles that they now need the help of others to remind them. Be careful though, I remember writing an address for homework and the tutor shot me down in flames, said it wasn't good enough for the exam. Interesting that she used it nearly word for word as her address in her next divine service and got praised for it. Wonder how many more she's stolen off her students. We know they are going to use them as their own, there's no way you can copy write them. Maybe people should send in essays on Brotherhood Of Man instead of essays on God as it seems it is the most forgotten principle.

OnlyVisitingEarth wrote:I was reading the comments left after a posting of the presidents photo op with AFC volunteers, must have been the same one as Minerva12.  Seems everyone but the president knew that every year the volunteers turn up to help with the college tidy up.  And yes I had to smile at the 'Service to the Union' part.
I did read about the pamphlets, surely all those up on the top tier should be able to write a good rousting essay on the subject of God, or are they so far removed from the true meaning of what it is to be a true Spiritualist, or to live the Seven Principles that they now need the help of others to remind them.

It's like a rudderless ship with no Captain, as my ole Dad would say. She is out of her depth!

OMG!!!  Have you seen the new SNU post?!!!!   It looks like an advert for a soft porn movie!!  Totally shocking..or it does to me!!  What the hell do they think they are doing?!!!   I know they are having trouble filling the rooms up, but to make a post that looks like they are hiring out the rooms by the hour!!! LOL

OnlyVisitingEarth wrote:OMG!!!  Have you seen the new SNU post?!!!!   It looks like an advert for a soft porn movie!!  Totally shocking..or it does to me!!  What the hell do they think they are doing?!!!   I know they are having trouble filling the rooms up, but to make a post that looks like they are hiring out the rooms for an hour!!! LOL

It was exactly my first impression. This is so embarrasing.

OnlyVisitingEarth wrote:OMG!!!  Have you seen the new SNU post?!!!!   It looks like an advert for a soft porn movie!!  Totally shocking..or it does to me!!  What the hell do they think they are doing?!!!   I know they are having trouble filling the rooms up, but to make a post that looks like they are hiring out the rooms by the hour!!! LOL

Its awful - the music is super sleazy, the mock pole dancing pose and the sexualisation of the staff is disrespectful. It might have been a bit of light fun by the staff while working and I'm no prude. However, it is crass for a religion to publish that on their official page.

Imagine the reaction if one of the larger religions had done that!