Why is there a Clash between the Tutors and the AFC Part 2

a very curious and worrying discovery by notabigjump.
perhaps this huge donation was due to some local disaster, rebuilding fund etc
but all the same, these are the JWs, so an explanation would be welcome

Slatewriter wrote:a very curious and worrying discovery by notabigjump.
perhaps this huge donation was due to some local disaster, rebuilding fund etc
but all the same, these are the JWs, so an explanation would be welcome

I agree. Considering their opinion of us Spiritualists it is hard to comprehend without an explanation. However, Jehovahs are not without financial means. They're number reach much further than Spiritualism. I hope the SNU has some answers from these two tutors and ministers of their fold.

What makes it more concerning, is when one looks into the financial position off the charity they paid this money too, it has in the region of $93 million dollars.

Even giving it to them for a one off event, seem ridiculous! Why would a very minor charity make a donation to a body that has more than $93 million and spends millions each year promoting Jehovism.

Reading up online, it seems the Canadian JW's have been merging some of their smaller outlying congregations into larger more established groups. Here's what comes up in a forum discussion on Reddit

"Is the Jehovah's Witness organization objectively going downhill in Canada?"

The reports in the forum about attendance for meetings in the ministry gives a bit of a picture on this decline. There is another piece to this picture you kindly presented. Prior to the pandemic (2020 Mar) the kingdom halls were being acquisitioned from the membership into the branch's ownership. Once acquired in certain areas the mergers of congregations began. Parcels of charity status holdings were shut down. Long process which ended in 2022.

In their tax returns higher running costs were claimed during the period. In particular legal and consultant expendures.

The revoke status means simply it was a voluntary. The WT Canada did what simply what other businesses will do upon acquiring a business or holdings. Reorganization or restructuring. That is why the numbers for voluntary revoke status grows strongly during that period and basically stops thereafter. Those numbers are a summation as each individual charity being shut down during the restructuring."

The full discussion is here
https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1fvbqif/followup_2_is_the_jehovahs_witness_organization/?rdt=57930

So it seems that instead of a donation, there could have been an opportunity in 2022 for Brian & Simon's church to purchase land or perhaps a building from the JWs. The date is a match and the fact that funds were given to the Heritage Kingdom Hall Fund might be another clue in this direction

Slatewriter wrote:Reading up online, it seems the Canadian JW's have been merging some of their smaller outlying congregations into larger more established groups. Here's what comes up in a forum discussion on Reddit

"Is the Jehovah's Witness organization objectively going downhill in Canada?"

The reports in the forum about attendance for meetings in the ministry gives a bit of a picture on this decline. There is another piece to this picture you kindly presented. Prior to the pandemic (2020 Mar) the kingdom halls were being acquisitioned from the membership into the branch's ownership. Once acquired in certain areas the mergers of congregations began. Parcels of charity status holdings were shut down. Long process which ended in 2022.

In their tax returns higher running costs were claimed during the period. In particular legal and consultant expendures.

The revoke status means simply it was a voluntary. The WT Canada did what simply what other businesses will do upon acquiring a business or holdings. Reorganization or restructuring. That is why the numbers for voluntary revoke status grows strongly during that period and basically stops thereafter. Those numbers are a summation as each individual charity being shut down during the restructuring."

So it seems there could have been an opportunity in 2022 for Brian & Simon's church to purchase land or perhaps a building from the JWs.
The date is a match and the fact that funds were given to the Heritage Kingdom Hall Fund might be another clue in this direction

That's interesting although it is listed as a donation, not an acquisition or investment. There is a reason for that I expect.

Yes Minerva12 it is most concerning that a church affiliated to the SNU should be donating that amount of money to a multimillion pound religion, a religion that believes based on their interpretation of Revelation 18-2-24.. all other religions are part of "Babylon the Great", a "World empire of false religion" under the control of Satan.
There must be answers to this new information, these two people we are talking about are not ordinary members, but are running the SNU Ministers Committee!! They are tutoring students are the Arthur Findlay College. I have looked at the bye-laws on Incompatible Religions, makes interesting reading, if you have not read the bye-law I suggest you go and read it (before it disappears or gets amended)
Yes there could be an innocent explanation about why they donated so much money, more money than they ever donated to the other two charities
I remember the President causing such a stink about TS Fellowship being an incompatible religion and warning members they will be excommunicated if they dared get awards from the TS Fellowship because the SNU said it was an incompatible religion, even though it wasn't a religion at all but a training centre!!
So yes the members demand an explanation on why two SNU members, one of them a SNU Minister gave so much money to a multimillion pound religion that seems to fit the criteria for an incompatible religion according to the SNU bye-laws.
Unfortunately I think it will go the usual way, Do As We Say Not As We Do and don't you dare question the president or else your SNU membership will be taken and you will be banned from your church.
It beggars belief that members are still standing around twiddling their thumbs and not asking the right questions. The 30% of the members who did vote for her, I have to ask them....what more do you want to find out about before you move for a vote of no confidence?

notabigjump wrote:

Slatewriter wrote:Reading up online, it seems the Canadian JW's have been merging some of their smaller outlying congregations into larger more established groups. Here's what comes up in a forum discussion on Reddit

"Is the Jehovah's Witness organization objectively going downhill in Canada?"

The reports in the forum about attendance for meetings in the ministry gives a bit of a picture on this decline. There is another piece to this picture you kindly presented. Prior to the pandemic (2020 Mar) the kingdom halls were being acquisitioned from the membership into the branch's ownership. Once acquired in certain areas the mergers of congregations began. Parcels of charity status holdings were shut down. Long process which ended in 2022.

In their tax returns higher running costs were claimed during the period. In particular legal and consultant expendures.

The revoke status means simply it was a voluntary. The WT Canada did what simply what other businesses will do upon acquiring a business or holdings. Reorganization or restructuring. That is why the numbers for voluntary revoke status grows strongly during that period and basically stops thereafter. Those numbers are a summation as each individual charity being shut down during the restructuring."

So it seems there could have been an opportunity in 2022 for Brian & Simon's church to purchase land or perhaps a building from the JWs.
The date is a match and the fact that funds were given to the Heritage Kingdom Hall Fund might be another clue in this direction

That's interesting although it is listed as a donation, not an acquisition or investment. There is a reason for that I expect.

The other curious aspect is that these donations went to Jehovah Witness organizations in two different areas of Canada, both far from where Brian and Simon's church is located. One JW place to which they donated is in Alberta, Canada, and the second, even further from Victoria is listed as being in Georgetown Ontario.

What on earth connection could there be between B & S's church and two so remotely located JW churches?

The only way I could see that these could have been anything other than a straight donation is if theer was some tax benefit in the JW's receiving a donation (which has no tax impact for either party) and the JW gifting Inner Quest with some property in Victoria. Can't get my head round that one as both parties get tax relief and can give a tax benefit to donors for the amounts they give.

There is, of course, a further concern in that all JW groups have international linkage, even if they are established as independent organisations, and operate to the same rules. Interesting report in the UK on this countries Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Britain.

Charity Inquiry: Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Britain

Clearly another area of difference with Spiritualism

Just in passing I was misled by earlier reports this motion to set up a new complaints committee for the NEC did not pass.

Motion No. 3 (Amended) - Special Resolution requiring three-quarters majority.

"That Article 62 be amended by the insertion of a new paragraph (3) to read as follows:- (3) If the Complaints Committee receives a complaint that it deems to be valid under the Bye-laws against a member of the National Executive Committee it, in consultation with the chief administrative officer of the Union, shall appoint a Commission of Inquiry to investigate the complaint and report its findings and recommendations thereon to the National Executive Committee. The Commission of Inquiry shall comply with the procedures set out in the appropriate Bye-laws. The members of the Commission of Inquiry shall consist of independent external professional investigators. If the Commission of Inquiry makes a recommendation to remove a member or members of the National Executive Committee, a general meeting of the Union shall be convened in accordance with the Act to vote on the removal. The motion for removal shall be a simple majority motion with not less than twenty-eight days' notice. The complainants and the person or persons proposed to be removed shall have the right to send written testimony before the meeting, to give written and verbal testimony at the meeting and to have witnesses give testimony at the meeting.  and that the succeeding paragraph be renumbered accordingly." Minister David Bruton
VOTES FOR MOTION 3 - 369 (65%)
VOTES AGAINST MOTION 3 - 196 (35%)

RESULT - Less than three-quarters majority - Motion NOT PASSED.

Of course the donation took me to the web site of Inner Quest SJ and BR's rather exclusive, upmarket and expensive set up, which has grown out of the original (and lovely) Open Door Sanctuary.

The way it has spanned itself across many esoteric ideas makes me wonder if indeed it can still be deemed a compatible religious body to retain its Kindred Status. Now of course if it wasn't then their SNU awards and membership would become invalid.

Some interesting areas they cover

This one they hold the copyright to and have trade marked Theurgic Mediumship  Not sure how that fits in with the SNU Collegiate Committee.

As they say on their website The Inner Quest Foundation holds the worldwide registry for authentic practitioners mof Theurgic Mediumship. Should you wish to know if a particular practitioner is a Theurgic Medium registered with the Inner Quest, please contact us at info@innerqf.com and we will be happy to assist you.

Their principles are also different
— Reverent union with the Divine

— The unity of humankind

— Communion and communication with the Spirit

— Continuous existence of the Spirit

— Personal responsibility

— Compensation of all thoughts, words and actions

— The path of progression open to all that will to tread it


Then their is this broad community Sophia Community

It's interesting and maybe parts of it are well worthwhile, but at the costs involved it may not appear as freely available as are SNU Churches.

I still hear rumours they are planning something, but even if they are not and are well involved with the project the SNU seems to be undertaking then that web site may give some idea of the broader direction JW may be looking towards. After all each person, BR and SJ, are earning as much as JW is from that single organisation (excluding the tutor fees they may get from the SNU of course).

Admin wrote:Of course the donation took me to the web site of Inner Quest SJ and BR's rather exclusive, upmarket and expensive set up, which has grown out of the original (and lovely) Open Door Sanctuary.

The way it has spanned itself across many esoteric ideas makes me wonder if indeed it can still be deemed a compatible religious body to retain its Kindred Status. Now of course if it wasn't then their SNU awards and membership would become invalid.

Some interesting areas they cover

This one they hold the copyright to and have trade marked Theurgic Mediumship  Not sure how that fits in with the SNU Collegiate Committee.

As they say on their website The Inner Quest Foundation holds the worldwide registry for authentic practitioners of Theurgic Mediumship. Should you wish to know if a particular practitioner is a Theurgic Medium registered with the Inner Quest, please contact us at info@innerqf.com and we will be happy to assist you.

Their principles are also different
— Reverent union with the Divine

— The unity of humankind

— Communion and communication with the Spirit

— Continuous existence of the Spirit

— Personal responsibility

— Compensation of all thoughts, words and actions

— The path of progression open to all that will to tread it


Then their is this broad community Sophia Community

It's interesting and maybe parts of it are well worthwhile, but at the costs involved it may not appear not as freely available as are SNU Churches.

I still hear rumours they are planning something, but even if they are not and are well involved with the project the SNU seems to be undertaking then that web site may give some idea of the broader direction JW may be looking towards. After all each person, BR and SJ, are earning as much as JW is from that single organisation (excluding the tutor fees they may get from the SNU of course).

Trade marking and naming a specific form of mediumship (whatever it is), then making it exclusive, does sound like a commercial product.

notabigjump wrote:

Admin wrote:Of course the donation took me to the web site of Inner Quest SJ and BR's rather exclusive, upmarket and expensive set up, which has grown out of the original (and lovely) Open Door Sanctuary.

The way it has spanned itself across many esoteric ideas makes me wonder if indeed it can still be deemed a compatible religious body to retain its Kindred Status. Now of course if it wasn't then their SNU awards and membership would become invalid.

Some interesting areas they cover

This one they hold the copyright to and have trade marked Theurgic Mediumship  Not sure how that fits in with the SNU Collegiate Committee.

As they say on their website The Inner Quest Foundation holds the worldwide registry for authentic practitioners of Theurgic Mediumship. Should you wish to know if a particular practitioner is a Theurgic Medium registered with the Inner Quest, please contact us at info@innerqf.com and we will be happy to assist you.

Their principles are also different
— Reverent union with the Divine

— The unity of humankind

— Communion and communication with the Spirit

— Continuous existence of the Spirit

— Personal responsibility

— Compensation of all thoughts, words and actions

— The path of progression open to all that will to tread it


Then their is this broad community Sophia Community

It's interesting and maybe parts of it are well worthwhile, but at the costs involved it may appear not freely available as are SNU Churches.

I still hear rumours they are planning something, but even if they are not and are well involved with the project the SNU seems to be undertaking then that web site may give some idea of the broader direction JW may be looking towards. After all each person, BR and SJ, are earning as much as JW is from that single organisation (excluding the tutor fees they may get from the SNU of course).

Trade marking and naming a specific form of mediumship (whatever it is), then making it exclusive, does sound like a commercial product.

Not only Theurgic Mediumship, but they're calling themselves the Wyrd Brothers too.
Wyrd Brothers indeed. They've been reading too much Terry Pratchett.
Always thought they were up themselves.
Now we know.
They're mixing occult and fantasy, with a pinch of Shakespeare for good measure.
Basically, they're full of crap.

notabigjump wrote:

Surely, this is major conflict of interest for the SNU AND the AFC? I have known Jehovah Witnesses, refer to Spiritualism as ‘Satan’s work.’

If there is a simple explanation it would be good to know. Especially as the tutors in dispute have been left with unresolved conflicts. Also, are students being taught by sympathisers of those who firmly believe we are in cahoots with evil?

Great Report....
previous presidents or NEC would not allowed it...most certainly a huge conflict of interest...

Thank you very much NOTABIGJUMP

They add in Trans Personal Psychology, they both  have Master degrees in this area of psychology . They are committed to Swedenborg and Andrew Jackson Davis, the former interesting but not relevant, the latter who founded his own movement the Harmonial Philosophy. AJD was continuously rejected by early Spritualists, especially over his free love platform.

Not really my cup of tea, and very different from their early days as TSNU.

Interesting I was typing about them and what they do and AI interjected with the Gumbo Gurus AI maybe more perceptive than I thought

Admin wrote: over his free love platform.

what does that mean?

High5 wrote:

Admin wrote: over his free love platform.

what does that mean?

Ah he believed that formal marriage was not a natural state, you should freely move through relationships as the Spirit took you  hippy ideals over 100 years before they evolved. It was also an ideal of Victoria Woodhull who became President of the first USA  National Spiritualist Organisation in 1872, but her platform of free love, support of early Labour organisation (unions), female rights and her publication of the first USA copy of Marx's communist manifesto destroyed that organisation in 1873. Later she blotted her copy book with marriage to A UK Lord and an adoption of eugenics principles to deal with social issues.( eugenics includes forced sterilisation to deal with those issues qed like the Nazi final solution which was an extreme version )

Hope that helps we will take this elsewhere on the forum if needed (it may already be on there I feel it may be)

None of the 21 Tutors are on the official AFC Website anymore. It seems JW made the cut she wanted.

aurora wrote:None of the 21 Tutors are on the official AFC Website anymore. It seems JW made the cut she wanted.

will the photos on the wall be next?

Slatewriter wrote:

aurora wrote:None of the 21 Tutors are on the official AFC Website anymore. It seems JW made the cut she wanted.

will the photos on the wall be next?

I suppose so, as there are "renovations" at the moment..

aurora wrote:None of the 21 Tutors are on the official AFC Website anymore. It seems JW made the cut she wanted.

I have been predicting this and sharing it with friends. I woke up recently with the thought that JW will do this and the photos removed by the time the college reopens.

Slatewriter wrote:

aurora wrote:None of the 21 Tutors are on the official AFC Website anymore. It seems JW made the cut she wanted.

will the photos on the wall be next?

Somewhere I saw photos of the "the wall", which was already "cleansed"...must have been Facebook etc.
Only a handful of framed photos remained in that shot...

No longer over 50 approved tutors there now as said on website. There is less, and they have left the tutor that has just passed away on too.
Specialist and Guest tutors are more honoury and not approved from what I've heard. There may be trouble ahead!

aurora wrote:None of the 21 Tutors are on the official AFC Website anymore. It seems JW made the cut she wanted.

Light-Nature-Truth wrote:No longer over 50 approved tutors there now as said on website. There is less, and they have left the tutor that has just passed away on too.
Specialist and Guest tutors are more honoury and not approved from what I've heard. There may be trouble ahead!

aurora wrote:None of the 21 Tutors are on the official AFC Website anymore. It seems JW made the cut she wanted.

They've shown they are quite prepared to sacrifice world class teachers who stand up for the rights of all them, for the ego and vindictiveness of one person. Shame on them!

The official list is already long enough, but the unofficial list of all those who are dissatisfied, angry, demotivated is getting longer and longer every day.

I'm personally disappointed with the tutors who still put up with it at the AFC. Haven't you understood what's happening right now? The president of the SNU and her followers, manipulated by her, are currently destroying everything that the pioneers and all voluntary supporters and members have built up in 124 years. If you have a spark of decency now, then you too go on strike and don't use the situation to secure a place at the AFC. This seems like eating leftovers – we as students see what happens and we would never book a course with somebody who has not the courage to stand up for others.

It is time NOW.

aurora wrote:The official list is already long enough, but the unofficial list of all those who are dissatisfied, angry, demotivated is getting longer and longer every day.

I'm personally disappointed with the tutors who still put up with it at the AFC. Haven't you understood what's happening right now? The president of the SNU and her followers, manipulated by her, are currently destroying everything that the pioneers and all voluntary supporters and members have built up in 124 years. If you have a spark of decency now, then you too go on strike and don't use the situation to secure a place at the AFC. This seems like eating leftovers – we as students see what happens and we would never book a course with somebody who has not the courage to stand up for others.

It is time NOW.

You are spot on! Many of those new tutors have been taught, nurtured and mentored by the tutors in exile and now no longer listed at the AFC website. Those in exile have stood up and been counted at great cost to them personally, so that ALL tutors will be treated with fairness and dignity.

Shame on those for putting their ambition before supporting those excellent tutors who helped them achieve their dreams, assessments, skills and gave them time, emotional and practical support for many years. What a kick in teeth. Those who remain need to all stand up and say enough!