Why is there a Clash between the Tutors and the AFC Part 2

How were the employment terms and conditions of this full-time President decided and when? They must have been discussed and agreed some time ago, the official car mileage rate similarly.

As for the President's salary 50 grand GBP ain't that much and I would assume there's nothing preventing her earning from other activities.

It's all sounding a bit feeny when you start analysing someone's personal remuneration in a discussion thread. If the President isn't doing what the role demands of her then it's a matter to be processed in the appropriate way.

It may seem "feeny" as you say, but when that same said President critiscised her predecessor for taking a wage at all, and criticised him further in her first election for taking a pay rise, whilst making a huge point that she would not....it smacks of hypocrisy.

She could have abolished her own wages on day one, if she felt the role should be paid for in its moral, spiritual and honourific capacity. It is however, no suprise that whilst she preached a good sermon, she then didnt follow through when the cheque book was in her hands.

minerva12 wrote: She could have abolished her own wages on day one, if she felt the role should be paid for in its moral, spiritual and honourific capacity. It is however, no suprise that whilst she preached a good sermon, she then didnt follow through when the cheque book was in her hands.

Sheer hypocrisy in a nutshell. Yet another reason JW is unpopular.
White woman speak with forked tongue.

minerva12 wrote:It may seem "feeny" as you say, but when that same said President critiscised her predecessor for taking a wage at all, and criticised him further in her first election for taking a pay rise, whilst making a huge point that she would not....it smacks of hypocrisy.

She could have abolished her own wages on day one, if she felt the role should be paid for in its moral, spiritual and honourific capacity. It is however, no suprise that whilst she preached a good sermon, she then didnt follow through when the cheque book was in her hands.

Good reply Minerva12 it puts this in context. If she criticised Bruton for taking pay, and used her statement, that she would reject it, to help win the Presidency, then she deserves calling out.

Now I think there is a good case for the President to receive a stipend, because I cannot see how anyone, except a very wealthy person, or a reasonably funded retiree, could afford to put the necessary hours in and maintain their external job.

We know the Bruton Story; he asked for this remuneration so that he could devote his time to the SNU. This was granted and he closed his Newsagent business down. I believe, he left his staff to recover their final payments from the Government Scheme, maybe as a trial for closing Psychic Press, where the staff also had to fall back on that scheme. Lucky he was never charged with insolvency, which would have disbarred his Presidency.

Maybe worrying about 45p a mile is unnecessary. There has to be reimbursement for expenses, or virtually no one could afford to take the job. My guess is the 45p will be based upon the allowable rate of reimbursement published by the Tax Department.

Now I asked about her fees whilst acting as a tutor earlier in this topic and someone explained JW was donating these to the President's Fund, but never explained what that fund was for. In reality believe she already gets one salary from the SNU and this should cover everything else she does, e.g working as a Tutor, traveling to SNU Churches, doing services or workshops. Expenses yes but not fees.

As to overseas travel, that should always be as the SNU representative, (when Rev Anne Gehman came to visit us it was as an NSAC Missionary) so expenses should be covered, by the people bringing her to their country and maybe a donation to the SNU. However promotional work must be a normal part of a Presidents Duty.

I think that would sort the balance of reward and duties pretty well. Except we should define the Presidents role better, none in recent years has any management expertise (Don't tell me Bruton did) or skills. So, because of the intricacies in modern business and in the Charities and Tax reporting, there have to be Professional General Managers for both the SNU and the AFC (the AFC should be entirely separate, covering all its own operating costs to show a real profit as a business unit, being charged no fees from the SNU, but paying a dividend to it).

Thus the President becomes a guiding figure, elected and maybe even lacking any skills to run a business. I reckon then that 55,000GBP is a pretty fair figure, with all expenses paid and, it seems, the right to stay at Hotel Stansted whenever she likes.

I realise, that by tradition, the Churches and IM hate seeing a President paid, because they do it for love!....But who can do this now. So its not one of the great arguments against her. Volunteers are now very hard to find, especially if the task is onerous or time consuming.

Except she said she would refuse it, as an election Pitch, instead JW kept it and wants everyone to believe her words now. So not really a "Feeny"(?) thing but one that goes to the heart of trusting someone

minerva12 wrote:It may seem "feeny" as you say, but when that same said President critiscised her predecessor for taking a wage at all, and criticised him further in her first election for taking a pay rise, whilst making a huge point that she would not....it smacks of hypocrisy.

She could have abolished her own wages on day one, if she felt the role should be paid for in its moral, spiritual and honourific capacity. It is however, no suprise that whilst she preached a good sermon, she then didnt follow through when the cheque book was in her hands.

minerva12 hits the nail on the head regarding the hypocrisy of JW views, whilst DB was in the post. I also question the level of time and professional commitment to the role of President. There is no issue in my mind of her being paid, nor expenses. However, I can't reconcile the amount of time spent on non Presidential work. Neither can I reconcile that the salary suggests JW should be a person who has experience and expertise to run a company - which is also a charity.

Does anyone know what her previous professional experience is? Asking for a friend....

minerva12 wrote:
She could have abolished her own wages on day one, if she felt the role should be paid for in its moral, spiritual and honourific capacity. It is however, no suprise that whilst she preached a good sermon, she then didnt follow through when the cheque book was in her hands.

Admin wrote:
Except she said she would refuse it, as an election Pitch, instead JW kept it and wants everyone to believe her words now. So not really a "Feeny"(?) thing but one that goes to the heart of trusting someone

I am not too familiar with the background of the organisation and certainly did not follow up on it, but I acctually assumed that she would have done exactly THAT , given that she used it for election pitch and bad-mouthing it for years...many thanks for confirming, ... all very peculiar.

PS:
It is widely known that AFC tutors boast about not paying any taxes when teaching abroad. Courses are paid for in cash on the day, leaving no paper trail for the money.

notabigjump wrote:
Does anyone know what her previous professional experience is? Asking for a friend....

Did anyone dare to read her autobiography?

High5 wrote:PS:
It is widely known that AFC tutors boast about not paying any taxes when teaching abroad. Courses are paid for in cash on the day, leaving no paper trail for the money.

Complex area here High 5 probably very dependent upon where, who and why they are visiting. The wannabe "Physical Mediums" lead this pack. However you can assume if you are travelling to earn money a visitors visa does not work. Kai Muegge was deported back to Germany from Australia at his own cost for using the wrong visa. That also caused upset for all those who had paid to attend his physical seances.

So visa is part 1, then moving or carrying too much cash back home is problematic. Of course there is the issue of someone dobbing you in to your own tax office. I tracked one PM earning over $100,000 cash in hand for a year. I restrained myself from contacting the tax office despite the fact he never proved survival.

On the whole I won't go near this although the people who have visited us have never made much money.

In this day and age of border controls and money laundering rule, Visa rules, it's stupid people can expect to get away with this.

Admin wrote:
Complex area here High 5 probably very dependent upon where, who and why they are visiting. The wannabe "Physical Mediums" lead this pack. However you can assume if you are travelling to earn money a visitors visa does not work. Kai Muegge was deported back to Germany from Aus for using the wrong visa at his cost.

lol...funny details...thanks
was he "able" to fulfill his "mission", or was he directly returned right at the airport?

was he "able" to fulfill his "mission", or was he directly returned right at the airport?

Australian immigration are very strict. If you have the wrong visa you wont be allowed into the country.
I heard that he was turned away at border control and sent back on the next plane home.

And we all keep at it to bring the truth to light. Yesterday I read JW's New Year's post and was about to hit the keys. But as we all know, there are consequences for SNU members (I am an SNU member). So I let it go. But yesterday another medium was very, very brave and I want to post the sequence from the post here. The author is the widely respected Jason D. Rothwell

https://www.facebook.com/jason.d.rothwell

Thank you Jason for your courage and your wonderful work as a medium. Here is his post:

"I am not sure on what planet this was written but it certainly wasn’t on the one we have just lived through!!
A positive year for Spiritualism? The Tutors crisis? More than twenty resignations? The most bitter election ever? Positive? Really? The Barbanell centre closing? Five churches for sale? And you have the gall to call that positive? The same year the Union was dragged into the court room, and the same year the whole NEC was left in the dark about the utter shambles being conducted behind their backs!
We all know that the email we were sent during the election slandering David wasn’t sent..by chance…..SOMEONE PROVIDED THOSE EMAILS! The same year the Almoner was told to resign after she had already been SACKED without her knowledge, yet sacked on the grounds that werent "sackable" for her successor!
The same year a Vice-President lost an election and yet was given the job anyway, when is predecessor resigned!
70% off less than half the members is no endorsement really……it was 30% of all members, using an illegal method off voting since electronic voting wasn’t allowed at the time…so an INVALID endorsement at best!
This was the year our President brought the WHOLE UNION into disrepute and should hang her head in shame! And that’s before RESIGNING!"

aurora wrote:And we all keep at it to bring the truth to light. Yesterday I read JW's New Year's post and was about to hit the keys. But as we all know, there are consequences for SNU members (I am an SNU member). So I let it go. But yesterday another medium was very, very brave and I want to post the sequence from the post here. The author is the widely respected Jason D. Rothwell

https://www.facebook.com/jason.d.rothwell

Thank you Jason for your courage and your wonderful work as a medium. Here is his post:

"I am not sure on what planet this was written but it certainly wasn’t on the one we have just lived through!!
A positive year for Spiritualism? The Tutors crisis? More than twenty resignations? The most bitter election ever? Positive? Really? The Barbanell centre closing? Five churches for sale? And you have the gall to call that positive? The same year the Union was dragged into the court room, and the same year the whole NEC was left in the dark about the utter shambles being conducted behind their backs!
We all know that the email we were sent during the election slandering David wasn’t sent..by chance…..SOMEONE PROVIDED THOSE EMAILS! The same year the Almoner was told to resign after she had already been SACKED without her knowledge, yet sacked on the grounds that werent "sackable" for her successor!
The same year a Vice-President lost an election and yet was given the job anyway, when is predecessor resigned!
70% off less than half the members is no endorsement really……it was 30% of all members, using an illegal method off voting since electronic voting wasn’t allowed at the time…so an INVALID endorsement at best!
This was the year our President brought the WHOLE UNION into disrepute and should hang her head in shame! And that’s before RESIGNING!"

I wouldn't agree that he is being very, very brave, because it's not difficult to tell the truth. He is being truthful and open about his views. Nothing wrong in that. The trouble now is, so many are under the domineering shadow of the SNU and have become frightened into keeping quiet. That's the issue.

High5 wrote:

notabigjump wrote:
Does anyone know what her previous professional experience is? Asking for a friend....

Did anyone dare to read her autobiography?

At 66 pages long I wouldn't waste £10.99 on Amazon. To be honest, as a student I heard her story many times.

I've just read the New Year president message. WOW I'm shaking my head in disbelief, as Jason said, what planet is she on because it isn't the same one I and others are on.

Maybe in her mind she does think that it's been a positive year, get rid of all those she doesn't like, make more money, make myself omnipotent, cronyism going well, glut of NDA's also going well, so yes I'm off to a wonderful start on my mission to be to go down in the annuals of Spiritualists history. Unfortunately for her she will be infamous not famous.
As for reading her book, I'm so looking forward to the book that will certainly be written about this mess.

I will take this opportunity to wish everyone on here a Great New Year and thank you for giving a place for people to speak the truth.

High5 wrote:

Admin wrote:
Complex area here High 5 probably very dependent upon where, who and why they are visiting. The wannabe "Physical Mediums" lead this pack. However you can assume if you are travelling to earn money a visitors visa does not work. Kai Muegge was deported back to Germany from Aus for using the wrong visa at his cost.

lol...funny details...thanks
was he "able" to fulfill his "mission", or was he directly returned right at the airport?

High5,

Muegge was in fact detained at the airport on arrival in Australia. His travelling status was questioned, as he travelled on a tourist visa but was booked to hold various seances for which he expected to be paid.

On investigation the Australian Authorities deemed he had entered the country "illegally" and he (and his female ) companion was held at the airport until the next plane headed for Germany, a return trip home at his (their) own cost. I believe that he was also banned from re-entering Australia for two years.

For Britons travelling to work in Europe it might not be a problem, but trips to Australia, New Zealand and America are a different matter.

Slatewriter wrote:

aurora wrote:But yesterday another medium was very, very brave and I want to post the sequence from the post here. The author is the widely respected Jason D. Rothwell

https://www.facebook.com/jason.d.rothwell

Thank you Jason for your courage and your wonderful work as a medium. Here is his post:

This was the year our President brought the WHOLE UNION into disrepute and should hang her head in shame! And that’s before RESIGNING!"

I wouldn't agree that he is being very, very brave, because it's not difficult to tell the truth. He is being truthful and open about his views. Nothing wrong in that. The trouble now is, so many are under the domineering shadow of the SNU and have become frightened into keeping quiet. That's the issue.

Totally agree but he has been brave, I follow his posts and they are an interesting mix of great and some out of my field but he has stood up all the way through despite having had platforms cancelled and people he thought were friends attacking him. I note he has over 16,000 Facebook followers (and a wide mix of people) versus 1600 for Minister Jackie Wright (her personal FB page has 379 followers the Spiritualist National Union 13,000 followers on FB), he works in churches all over the area where her support is strongest. He has also, already done two fund raisers for Runcorn where Paul Jacobs and Su Wood have done one each. So he is young, popular and vibrant.

I guess he can reach people most cannot but well done Jason and in social media he outguns the SNU. Reckon if the SNU take action against him its one for the Charities Commission given teh lack of a complaints procedure "Fit for the Purpose" in the SNU.

I was checking the SNU Facebook Page, for follower numbers and nearly fell over when I saw the Christmas post



The comments above from Jason apply to this as it is clear the SNU are lacking in understanding of the basics of the Brotherhood of Man. Or should we say the NEC and President plus the Collegiate Committee appear to have decided is an optional extra

High5 wrote:

Lis wrote:
On investigation the Australian Authorities deemed he had entered the country "illegally" and he (and his female ) companion was held at the airport until the next plane headed for Germany, a return trip home at his (their) own cost. I believe that he was also banned from re-entering Australia for two years.

For Britons travelling to work in Europe it might not be a problem, but trips to Australia, New Zealand and America are a different matter.

Interesting... I surely wasn’t aware of how strict laws are elsewhere, while Europe is flooded with illegals.

Which brings me to the next question:

if the Barbanell Centre is not profitable after undergoing such extensive renovations, wouldn’t it make sense to lease it to the government to accommodate migrants? After all, the government is paying vast sums to hoteliers – why not to the SNU?

The same could also apply to the churches that are being sold.

 
Interesting,  but way off this topic maybe you should start a new topic elsewhere. Let us remain on topic please High5. As I have copied your post Inhave now removed yours to tighten up this content.

hiya Admin,
please advice:
When gathering thoughts how churches could be saved...where could the topic go...please

ie: if the Barbanell Centre is not profitable after undergoing such extensive renovations, wouldn’t it make sense to lease it to the government to accommodate migrants? After all, the government is paying vast sums to hoteliers – why not to the SNU?

The same could also apply to the churches that are being sold.

What would speak against it?

High5 wrote:hiya Admin,
please advice:
When gathering thoughts how churches could be saved...where could the topic go...please

ie: if the Barbanell Centre is not profitable after undergoing such extensive renovations, wouldn’t it make sense to lease it to the government to accommodate migrants? After all, the government is paying vast sums to hoteliers – why not to the SNU?

The same could also apply to the churches that are being sold.

What would speak against it?

Hi High5,

I  (Admin: Lis) have created a new thread titled SNU CLOSING CHURCHES under the general umbrella heading "Why is there a Clash between tutors and AFC where questions such as yours may more appropriately be discussed. Jim will shortly move your post to that new thread and no doubt respond to your query.

Admin: Lis

High5 I could not move that post but have copied it

In part my post has relevance to here. because as we know JW has denied any closures, except the Barbanell Centre. Just before the AGM the Barbanell Centre wa,s to paraphrase her AGM repor,t "Going Well". However, post election JW confirmed that the previous NEC had decided pre AGM that is should be closed but left the final decision to the new NEC. Just a small but every considerable difference to her Annual Report.

Anyway the new thread will allow a separate focus so we can re focus on this thread to more of the latest news as it appears. Of course any more church news can be cross referenced to here.

https://www.spiritualismlink.com/t2513-snu-closing-churches#23091

I have replied to High5, about his post on there. Love it if some could read and add thoughts.

While you are looking elsewher ther is a great 3 day series of online course and event from 15 of the tutors
https://www.spiritualismlink.com/t2501-courses-you-can-attend-with-the-20-tutors-who-said-no#23095

Admin wrote:High5 I could not move that post but have copied it

In part my post has relevance to here. because as we know JW has denied any closures, except the Barbanell Centre. Just before the AGM the Barbanell Centre wa,s to paraphrase her AGM repor,t "Going Well". However, post election JW confirmed that the previous NEC had decided pre AGM that is should be closed but left the final decision to the new NEC. Just a small but every considerable difference to her Annual Report.

In other words. JW told the membership some big porkies prior to her election.

How can any of us have faith in her and/or the SNU statement about the tutor dispute, if she can go to these lengths to deny the truth about a major financial asset and then expect no repercussions when her lies become public after she is secured in post?

No wonder the tutors walked.

Some new information has recently come to light which may or may not have an innocent explanation. However, on first glance it does appear very controversial.

Several have already made comments regarding SJ and BR increasing their teaching presence at the AFC. An insider tells me they are making more frequent visits and courses there to support the college, as it ploughs through the current tutor crises.

Indeed, many have commented about their own SNU affiliated Church in Canada and how it is faring during their regular absences.

A peek at the Open Door Sanctuary company returns is disturbing for the SNU. In the following screenshot, from the public records, we see the annual donations from the church. Each year they donate to the World Wildlife Fund Canada, and Amnesty International. Nothing strange there.

However in 2022 there are two substantial donations to the Jehovahs Witnesses. This far exceeds any previous and subsequent donations.

To make matters appear worse, both men are now engaged on the Minister’s committee for the SNU.

You may think this is making hay while the sun shines, but in all seriousness, this is a significant conflict of interest. Jehovism, is well known for objecting strongly to Spiritualism, yet they were beneficiaries of an SNU affiliated organisation.

Surely, this is major conflict of interest for the SNU AND the AFC? I have known Jehovah Witnesses, refer to Spiritualism as ‘Satan’s work.’

If there is a simple explanation it would be good to know. Especially as the tutors in dispute have been left with unresolved conflicts. Also, are students being taught by sympathisers of those who firmly believe we are in cahoots with evil?

Isn't one of the requirments of being a member of the Union, signing an agreement on your membership for that you are not affiliated to any other religion?

I would very much like to know why this payment was made, off such an extra-ordinary sum, and moreover, was it a one off, (two one offs) due to a community centric reason...i.e maybe renting a space or damage due to fire (supporting a fellow church) or has this great significance and have such payments been made in 2023 and 2024....if payments were made last year, both persons need suspending pending a formal investigation off their affiliation with Kingdom Hall.