Swedish medium caught cheating

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Re: Swedish medium caught cheating

Post by Jane Lyzell on Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:28 pm

http://www.vof.se/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=4531&start=210

Hear is a swedish transcript on the tape - you can translait it your self if you are uintrested note the forum is a swedish sceptik one - but the transkript is correkt. the 3.de replay on the side!
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Re: Swedish medium caught cheating

Post by Admin on Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:49 am

Hi Jane

Thanks for sharing that unfortunately my translation was freezing my computer.

Jim
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Re: Swedish medium caught cheating

Post by Lis on Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:43 am

Unfortunately what is being conveyed is rather lost in the translation.

A lot of half sentences, half said thoughts, half conveyed opinions which leaves me no clearer as to what went on than I was before reading this transcription.

Could someone please describe exactly what actually went on and in what way this Anders was caught cheating?

Lis
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Re: Swedish medium caught cheating

Post by Jane Lyzell on Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:37 am

http://spiritualistchatroom.forumotion.com/t1414p45-swedish-medium-caught-cheating#21219

this might help Wink
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Re: Swedish medium caught cheating

Post by obiwan on Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:07 am

Hi Jane

(subject to Admin's view) could you post more detail about the exposure? I tried to follow the link but it requires me to log in to the site - which is something I'd rather avoid.

obiwan


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Re: Swedish medium caught cheating

Post by Jane Lyzell on Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:43 pm

obiwan wrote:Hi Jane

(subject to Admin's view) could you post more detail about the exposure? I tried to follow the link but it requires me to log in to the site - which is something I'd rather avoid.

Swedish to English translation
The following is a transcript of the conversation between Per Ola Thornell (P) and Anders Åkesson (A). Note that Anders mentions two people, and Alf Stewart. Anders says that Alf has done something with the luminous mud because he found more under the seat. Alf is a circle of British physical medium Stewart Alexander is the second person said.


Per Ola Thornell: You my friend?
Anders Åkesson: yes ...
P: Do you have time to talk a while?
A: Yeah.
P: I'm sitting still with the dilemma of this fucking dough, I have to take it with you, make it clear.
A: I have not talked to Alf yet, but I suspect he did something with the chair on which sits more under your feet ... [silence]
P: Okay .. for this is how Anders, I must say that it is, when I found these clumps
A: yes
P: I opened, so I put his hand into your bag out there and found the lump out there
A: okay
P: and the package and the sock and the
A: okay
P: and then I felt, what the hell is this? And before we talk further about it, it's like this. I'm not looking for anything, I am not trying to hurt you or me or anyone else. I'm not looking for anything, I just have to find answers to what the hell this is for nothing. Because I knew you when you said that you did not want to talk about it that's why you denied it. And that's ok, but I know that you and I have to talk about it and when we have made it so I will put a lid on, I'm not looking for anything and I would not tell anyone but I want to tell me how things are.
A: [silence] mmmm [long silence] and what should you respond to that?
P: I do not know Anders
A: .. nääe
P: for I know that my feet and pulled away in my whole .. my doubt and confidence of the whole thing, and suddenly I do not know what is right and true in the case of mediumship and so, and .. [Pause] and I can understand that people want to experiment, I can understand everything, I just want to talk about it, I just want to get peace of mind, and I'm not looking to hang somebody, I'm not looking for a fight in any problems or anything at all, I want to .. I just have to find out how the hell it is like
A: [long silence] Yeah I do not know what to answer that. [Long silence] It's pretty obvious of course ...
P: yes
A: huh?
P: Yes, so, it is
A: but I had a feeling that you already knew
P: Yes, exactly, exactly. Absolutely
A: .. there is nothing to sit and lie on the course?
P: Nah
A: Nah
P: No, and it is ok Anders. I wonder, is everything as well, everything, it is also at that level?
A: No, not everything.
P: Nah, that's not right?
A: it is not
Ps
A: I mean, when glasses flying from one side of the room to across the room, it does not go and and rooting for the
Ps
A: it does not
Ps ...
A: [silence] that there is stuff but yes, I may of course say that you come up with some [pause] things there?
P: ... well okay
A: such a glowing hand.
P: Yes, exactly ... it's ok
A: but then that's exactly what I say, it is better to be honest and no matter what it is about and I had a feeling that you already knew what it was about to ..
P: yes, yes .. I just did not know how I would handle it because I was so I got such a quagmire
A: Of course, it feels as if her feet pulled away of course ..
P: Yes exactly. okay okay okay okay
A: How do you feel now?
P. It feels good that you said it
A: It does?
P: Yes, it feels good.
A: Yes, it is not a JOB that if, things are that way.
P. yes
A. mmm
P: okay. how ... [Pause] mmm
A: And that ... I have no knowledge of, how much wheeler-dealers in other people's physical nor
P: Nah
A: but this is something, which I suspect to exist in most natural medium Partnerships
P: mmm, mmm
A: to get the best results
P: mmm
A: and .. but it is as I say, there's stuff that does not, as I have no, no clue about, how it even goes to
P: Yes ... yes yes
A: it's the same with Stewart, I, I have my suspicions that he ... [Silence] but to the spirit world is present, it is, it is the course
P: I think so too, therefore I think so too, because there are things in this that I can not explain, but of course this means, therefore, as I understand that this means you you're off on something way with your hands or who ... and so, but the trumpets are out there or are you there, then where, when is the spirit world at present?
A: The trumpets are genuine.
P: okay
A: Mmm, otherwise they would not be able to run away like that. There is no ..
P: nah .. nah ..
A: There is no way then ..
P: Nah ..
A: .. they are outside for four or five feet between them, of course, it's the same with Stewart, he may well have trumpets that, I have seen, fifteen feet away ..
P: mmm
A: So I know they are there, and you've got a feeling, out of the presence of justice in the
P: mmm ..
A: but some magic trick may perhaps be included there for people to have curiosity about it.
P: Mmm .. ok ok yes yes yes be good but okay I, I it felt good to call and talk about it and so, and [pause]
A: but this nothing as anyone knows at all
Ps I know I have promised myself [pause] .. I have promised myself, I and Annette have been talking about it and we promised ourselves that if we just found out what it was for so, so will and we [pause] and put down
A: for it is as I say, it's not fake all of it of course
Ps
A: it is not
P: nah nah [pause] nah [pause] nah that's where the more overwhelming, and the feeling that disappears from one of the known
A: Yes, yes I understand it ..
P: .. So it is quite tough
A: it is like the air goes out of a
P: in fact completely, totally, mmm [pause] yes yes it's alright yes I will continue to digest it, I thought that I must call you because I like everything .. all my .. all my I'm up to, what is mine, my trainings and certificate, and what should I think now and what should I not believe and what the hell does this mean for me, it's a bloody tussle taking and ..
A: Yo-Yo
P: so I must like digesting it, and so [pause] but I appreciate .. appreciate you saying this now so I know ..
A: Yes
P: so so okay .. yes but we are okay Anders .. I .. we drop it now and I'll melt a bit and so where, as we heard of again, simply that I think
A: [pause] yes
P: [pause] okay
A: mmm
P: Health Lisbeth will speak with you?
A: Yes I'll do that
P: we say, hey
A: hi

the translaition isent the best
But I think you all goth a hang of it!

.it shuld say Alf (winshester) and Stewart( Alexander) he is talking aboute!
and it is a shame he is dragin them in his shit.

Anders åkesson is sudjesting otherwise in this tape - he is blaming his froude on first Alf then trying to werryfy it and assuming Stewart.........

I dont beliv Alf and Stewart are disonest but this must come forward what Anders has sade - becource they are holding his back in england - i dont think thay have undertstand what kinde of persen Anders is! (i dont think they holding Anders back any longer i hop, this was posting nerly a year a goo)
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Re: Swedish medium caught cheating

Post by obiwan on Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:32 pm

Thanks Jane

Let me make sure I am understanding this correctly: some material, which was luminous, was found seemingly in a secret place and put there by the medium, which he appears to accept, and which was subsequently used in some way during the seance?


obiwan


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Re: Swedish medium caught cheating

Post by Jane Lyzell on Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:30 pm

obiwan wrote:Thanks Jane

Let me make sure I am understanding this correctly: some material, which was luminous, was found seemingly in a secret place and put there by the medium, which he appears to accept, and which was subsequently used in some way during the seance?

He smuggled a fluorescent clay (in trousers) - as he put on his own Hand and then as he was then covered with a dark sock. Arrange each.
And then he stuck it out out of the cabinet and cheated that it is genuine.

This, he admitted he had done four times pale
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Re: Swedish medium caught cheating

Post by Lis on Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:35 pm

So he secreted fluorescent material in his pockets and used it to give the appearance of a spirit hand then hid the effects in his sock?

Lis
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Re: Swedish medium caught cheating

Post by Lis on Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Or he hid his hand in a sock while holding the fluorescent material and stuck his hand and the material out of the cabinet - in this way giving the appearance of there being no hand?

Lis
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Re: Swedish medium caught cheating

Post by Lis on Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Just trying to grasp exactly what he did Jane - I appreciate it is not easy for you to explain given the language differences.

Lis
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Re: Swedish medium caught cheating

Post by Lis on Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:22 pm

It would seem that Anders Akesson was trying to suggest that Alexander's mediumship was not all kosher either - a rather despicable innuendo to convey when the person saying it has just been caught out in cheating. He gives no evidence to support such a claim against a medium whose reputation for honesty and integrity stands way above all other current physical mediums.

Lis
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Re: Swedish medium caught cheating

Post by Azur on Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:58 pm

I am stunned and shocked that he would speak about Stewart like that, Stewart Alexander always comes across as a honest, friendly and sincere man, I can't believe any of what he said.

Anders is a complete villain.


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Re: Swedish medium caught cheating

Post by Jane Lyzell on Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:57 pm

Lis wrote:So he secreted fluorescent material in his pockets and used it to give the appearance of a spirit hand then hid the effects in his sock?

Not in his pocket in the waistband (googeltranslaited) I gues in his underwhere!
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Re: Swedish medium caught cheating

Post by Jane Lyzell on Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:59 pm

Lis wrote:Or he hid his hand in a sock while holding the fluorescent material and stuck his hand and the material out of the cabinet - in this way giving the appearance of there being no hand?

fluorescent material and stuck over his hand and the material out of the cabinet as a gloving hand!
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Re: Swedish medium caught cheating

Post by Jane Lyzell on Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:00 am

Lis wrote:Just trying to grasp exactly what he did Jane - I appreciate it is not easy for you to explain given the language differences.
sorry my svenglish geek
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Re: Swedish medium caught cheating

Post by Jane Lyzell on Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:06 am

Azur wrote:I am stunned and shocked that he would speak about Stewart like that, Stewart Alexander always comes across as a honest, friendly and sincere man, I can't believe any of what he said.

Anders is a complete villain.


Then we are 2 and a lods of more thinking the same- and Im sorry that has to come oute - but anders dident listen so Per -Ola hade to leth the tape oute, becurse he obviesly hade lide to them in england aboute the exposhur - and they first where defending him - but they dont any longe i hope? I dont think so -
it is a shame pale
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Re: Swedish medium caught cheating

Post by Admin on Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:29 am

If they reject Infra Red then passive thermography, french chalk on the floor around the medium and an electronic pressure platform under the chair would work really well. Not sure restraints would be necessary then especially if you included the use of the dimmest possible red light with a residual light camera to back all of this up.

If this is refused by a medium there is historic proof that all of these are possible, even seances in dim light, magnesium flare photography, daylight seances etc etc. Really until a medium can achieve this, or the unique psychic force effects of DD Home we should dismiss them and remind them to go back into development not into public mediumship to earn money. We are so far behind the abilities of the past mediums we should either give up, or try much harder and ensure everything is tested.

Please walk away from Dark Seances just as DD Home, Emma Hardinge Britten and the original US National Spiritualist Organisation told us we should.
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Re: Swedish medium caught cheating

Post by Jane Lyzell on Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:10 pm

Lis you said it all, thanks Very Happy

and for light of truth - we ho sat in his cirkel(me persenly 3 years, driving 200 km once aweek) we al are badly heart by this man one is still under bad depression after what he did over 1 year agho - fore my self he has hurt my trust and damege oure spiritual college and damege the reprutaion by his acction.

he has killed my baby, physical mediumships trust in sweden so badly so it has gon back atleest 50 years bulding it upp aghen.

He still woorking as a medium and teather for others and doing physical mediumship Evil or Very Mad

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Re: Swedish medium caught cheating

Post by Lis on Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:22 pm

Jane,

Your remarks convey, I think, the true consequence of the damage caused by those who are prepared to deceive.

You, and those other people in the circle had trusted and believed in Anders. He betrayed your trust and caused much heartache and grief, as well as damaging the physical mediumship movement in your country.

When people talk about how we should not judge, they should also talk about personal responsibility. The personal responsibility of the person who betrayed the trust of people and caused hurt and harm in the process.

Yet, here we have a person who betrayed those who trusted him, and believed he was demonstrating genuine mediumship, and despite the damage caused by that, he continues to work as a medium, and to 'teach' people, and his supporters criticize those who speak out about his conduct and call them the bad people, when it is the medium who was the bad person.

Lis
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Re: Swedish medium caught cheating

Post by Jane Lyzell on Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:44 pm

Lis
Exaktly - he just think that he has admit fraude and now he can carry on as nothing has happend Rolling Eyes
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Re: Swedish medium caught cheating

Post by obiwan on Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:54 pm

Well put Lis

obiwan


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Re: Swedish medium caught cheating

Post by Quiet on Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:44 pm

Lis wrote:As a final comment, I would add that spirit guides who continue to work with a medium who is supplementing real phenomena with fraudulent action are, in my opinion, no better than the fraudulent medium. They lack integrity and honesty if they allow the medium to dupe people. I don't believe we need dishonest spirits anymore than we need dishonest mediums.

It has always been known, since the very early days of Spiritualism, that not all in spirit, and not all spirits that make contact, are either honest or spiritually advanced. It is part of our journey to learn to be discerning about this, both as mediums, and as participants in seances.

Lis, I was very interested in the selected quotes. I didn't actually know this with surety. People sometimes speak about lower or lost spirits but I didn't know that this kind of fraud or misleading would be allowed. What is the role of one's own guides in protecting people from 'possession' or simply being led astray?

Can you direct me to some reading about this>

Thanks for your time. Smile

Quiet


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Re: Swedish medium caught cheating

Post by Lis on Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:26 am

The following words were written in 1907, however they reflect the sentiments of many earlier Spiritualists who recorded the wisdom, knowledge and truth given to them by the spirit world.

"A spirit, therefore, is not an abstract, undefined being, only to be conceived of by our thought; it is a real, circumscribed being, which, in certain cases, is appreciable by the senses of sight, hearing and touch.

"Spirits belong to different classes, and are not all equal to one another in power, intelligence, in knowledge, or in morality. Those of the highest orders are distinguished from those below them by their superior purity and knowledge, their nearness to God, and their love of goodness; they are 'angels' or 'pure spirits.'

"The other classes are more and more distant from this perfection; those of the lower ranks are inclined to most of our passions, hatred, envy, jealousy, pride, etc.,; they take pleasure in evil. Among them are some who are neither very good nor very bad, but are teasing and troublesome rather than malicious, are often mischievous and unreasonable, and may be classed as giddy and foolish spirits.

"Spirits exert an incessant action upon the moral world, and even upon the physical world; they act both upon matter and upon thought, and constitute one of the powers of nature, the efficient cause of many classes of phenomena hitherto unexplained or misinterpreted, and of which only the (Spiritualist) theory can given a rational explanation.

"Spirits are incessantly in relation with men. The good spirits try to lead us into the right road, sustain us under the trials of life, and aid us to bear them with courage and resignation; the bad ones tempt us to evil; it is a pleasure for them to see us fall, and to make us like themselves.

"The communications of spirits with men are either occult or ostensible. Their occult communications are made through the good or bad influence they exert on us without our being aware of it; it is our duty to distinguish, by the exercise of our judgement, between the good and the bad inspirations that are thus brought to bear upon us. Their ostensible communications take place by means of writing, speech, or of other physical manifestations, and usually through the intermediary of the mediums who serve as their instruments."

"Spirits are attracted by their sympathy with the moral quality of the parties by whom they are evoked. Spirits of superior elevation take pleasure in meetings of a serious character, animated by the love of goodness and the sincere desire of instruction and improvement. Their presence repels the spirits of inferior degree, who find, on the contrary free access and freedom of action among persons of frivolous disposition, or brought together by mere curiosity, and wherever evil instincts are to be met with.

"So far from obtaining from spirits, under such circumstances, either good advice or useful information, nothing is to be expected from them but trifling, lies, ill-natured tricks, or humbugging; for they often borrow the most venerated names, in order the better to impose upon those with whom they are in communication."

This post is, in part, a response to the question posed by 'Quiet' but it also serves to highlight my earlier remarks regarding my belief that spirit guides who are, to borrow 'light of truth's' words, "spiritually evolved," would not desire to condone or support false mediumship. On the other hand, those in the spirit realms that are of a lesser nature might well be willing to continue to work with a fraudulent medium, for their amusement, and to the ultimate destruction of that which the medium is professing to prove. Negative entities might well enjoy seeing a false medium duping people.

Of course, this Swedish fraud might also have guides of a more spiritual nature, who stand and wait for the time when he will realize the folly of his ways and begin to make recompense for his unethical, and unspiritual behaviour.

Lis
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Re: Swedish medium caught cheating

Post by Admin on Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:40 am

A good point Lis, many miss the fact that although you do have one Guide with you throughout your journey in this physical life other guides with specialist expertise will join your team once you commit to develop in working for Spirit.

First get to know your doorkeeper, the guide who is with you on the entire journey, then you have more chance of avoiding the mischievious "guides". As you suggest discernment is everything, especially when Trance gets involved.

I can imagine that at times this guide watches and wonders at our antics. However, as you say, they will always be there to work with you when you try to contact them,


Last edited by Admin on Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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