real or not?

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Re: real or not?

Post by Left Behind on Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:02 pm

African Genesis has nothing to do with the Bible. On one level, it's about physical anthropology: but pay no attention to that.

Ardrey coined the termed and conveyed the concept of the "amity-enmity complex". In simple terms, human beings have within their nature a need to be a part of an "us"(friends): the flip side of which is that there must be a "them"(enemies).

Whenever someone starts talking about how wonderful it would be "if we didn't have Christianity or organized religion or capitalism or nationalism" or whatever, because " 'it's' the cause of all wars and conflicts" . . . Rolling Eyes : I just think of Ardrey's thesis: and then look at the world around me: sports fans beating the hell out of one another. . . poor black kids turning their baseball caps to the left, and attacking other poor black kids who turn their baseball caps to the right. . .

The fact is that people are going to fight. They always have. They always will. It's part of their nature. Jew v. Arab. Mod v. Rocker. Crip v. Blood. Sports fan of one team v. sports fan of another team.

There will always "be" a reason: even if they have to invent one. Neutral


Jim

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Re: real or not?

Post by obiwan on Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:29 pm

Left Behind wrote:African Genesis has nothing to do with the Bible. On one level, it's about physical anthropology: but pay no attention to that.

Ardrey coined the termed and conveyed the concept of the "amity-enmity complex". In simple terms, human beings have within their nature a need to be a part of an "us"(friends): the flip side of which is that there must be a "them"(enemies).

Whenever someone starts talking about how wonderful it would be "if we didn't have Christianity or organized religion or capitalism or nationalism" or whatever, because " 'it's' the cause of all wars and conflicts" . . . Rolling Eyes : I just think of Ardrey's thesis: and then look at the world around me: sports fans beating the hell out of one another. . . poor black kids turning their baseball caps to the left, and attacking other poor black kids who turn their baseball caps to the right. . .

The fact is that people are going to fight. They always have. They always will. It's part of their nature. Jew v. Arab. Mod v. Rocker. Crip v. Blood. Sports fan of one team v. sports fan of another team.

There will always "be" a reason: even if they have to invent one. Neutral


Jim

The original bit of the discussion was about Paul and whether he was 'illustrious'. I didn't mention the Bible or the subject or the spread of Christianity initially, I think Katy did (which is apparently some kind of grasshopper lol) - I merely responded to his observations at the outset.

I would agree the humans appear to have a need to coalesce into groups and then view outsiders as 'them'. It's pretty obvious. I don't think that prevents us from analysing such groupings or having strong opinions about them. I can't think of many groupings that don't have at least some redeeming qualities, at least for members of the group. Whether it is a religious demarcation or some other criterion, the effect is the same as you say. There is good and bad in Christianity (not that there is a single agreed definition of exactly what that means), as in all other religions, religious people, atheists or secular groupings. The positive aspects of religions are often claimed as something unique whereas in fact secular organisations and non-religious people are equally capable of positive acts of course.

Nobody suggested christianity per se was a bad thing or otherwise. Would we be better off without Christianity and organised religion? - in some ways yes, in others no. As you say, some other construct would likely emerge to fill the void. Is Christianity as a grouping special? I don't think so, though obviously its members would disagree. Hence the debate about the validity, for example, of the bible as some kind of moral or spiritual guide, or Paul as an illustrious person, or the emperor Constantine or any number of 'church fathers'.

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Re: real or not?

Post by Wes on Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:26 am

If humans were evolved enough to appreciate the interconnectedness of all life and perceive that spark of the divine that resides inside everyone, then there would be no need to fight, or reason to fight. The chances of that happening in our lifetime is infinitesimal, but that's no reason to not to do what we can to achieve that state of being for ourselves, at the very least.
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Re: real or not?

Post by obiwan on Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:18 am

Wes wrote:If humans were evolved enough to appreciate the interconnectedness of all life and perceive that spark of the divine that resides inside everyone, then there would be no need to fight, or reason to fight. The chances of that happening in our lifetime is infinitesimal, but that's no reason to not to do what we can to achieve that state of being for ourselves, at the very least.

Agreed.

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Re: real or not?

Post by hiorta on Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:39 pm

The pivotal factor is that there is no money to be made from 'peace, knowledge and understanding' on earth. Look out for more pious pleadings, phoney supplications to a non-responsive Deity who is deliberately mocked daily.

A society without crime, illness, selective hunger - one in which all share equally in what is available?
What would those who suffer from too much and those who suffer from too little do with their time?
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Re: real or not?

Post by KatyKing on Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:53 pm

You'll not change folk. The eloquent silence or absent present within any self definition is the unspoken 'other'. Those folk over there who don't belong to our.........
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Re: real or not?

Post by Quiet on Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:33 pm

Wes wrote:If humans were evolved enough to appreciate the interconnectedness of all life and perceive that spark of the divine that resides inside everyone, then there would be no need to fight, or reason to fight. The chances of that happening in our lifetime is infinitesimal, but that's no reason to not to do what we can to achieve that state of being for ourselves, at the very least.

There are many people who do achieve something like that at least part of the time. There are many good and kind people engaged in peaceful, giving, learning lives. It's easy to underestimate that.

Of course, there is much suffering too. I asked 'why' this is so once and received the answer 'for the perpetuation of love' and took this to mean that we have to learn through experience how to love. Human life offers many chances to learn and practise love.


Last edited by Quiet on Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: real or not?

Post by KatyKing on Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:03 pm

Amen to that Q.
PARK = Practise acts [of] random kindness.
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Re: real or not?

Post by Wes on Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:41 pm

KatyKing wrote:You'll not change folk. The eloquent silence or absent present within any self definition is the unspoken 'other'. Those folk over there who don't belong to our.........

You can definitely change people, simply by imposing belief systems that curtail free thinking and limit self expression, and some might even call that a change for the better. The change I'm thinking of is more akin to the evolving flower opening up its petals and facing the Sun for the first time. It's not something you can force it or tell it to do, but you can provide the right soil and access to sunlight and trust that its innate desire for the light will do the rest.
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Re: real or not?

Post by hiorta on Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:12 pm

Agreed Wes. Folk will change themselves as and when and if the change appeals to them.In any case does it matter, with folk often having a personal road to walk.
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Re: real or not?

Post by KatyKing on Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:15 pm

Let a thousand flowers bloom
somebody once said. I've posted elsewhere on how and why SNU corporatism stifles both Spirit and human flourishing.
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Re: real or not?

Post by petal34 on Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:18 pm

KatyKing wrote:Let a thousand flowers bloom
somebody once said. I've posted elsewhere on how and why SNU corporatism stifles both Spirit and human flourishing.

In full agreement,Katy King.
Spiritualism and the fact of it should be free thinking.
Do the dead really want to be cased in a company based institution?
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Re: real or not?

Post by KatyKing on Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:23 pm

Laughing Some might. One or two managers where I work put me in mind of what Conan Doyle got about that Plymouth Brethren chap who passed and carried his prejudices across.
Heaven to some might be all agendas minutes and meetings.
What do you call twelve higher education managers in Summerland?




... A good start.
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Re: real or not?

Post by zerdini on Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:48 pm

In the discussion on reincarnation I came across this written on other forums by Joanie aka Deep Sea aka Aussiepom aka Petal:

Some folks don't believe in it. I can understand why,the idea seems ridiculous,doesn't it?
But I do believe there is a reason for living over and over again.
What is the use of one life to us?
What does one life do for us?
I believe we live and live over again until we reach that point in time,where there is nothing left for us to learn.
Joanie

There a lot of pro's and con's against reincarntion.
Some believe and some don't.
The only question is.....Where do all the souls go where they reach that period of time in what we call 'Summerland?'
Or are there so many planets in God's universe,we have to live a period of time on each different planet to experience their way of life,not back on our planet we call earth.
Think of the constellations up there in that wonderful space above us.
Joanie


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Re: real or not?

Post by petal34 on Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:32 am

zerdini wrote:In the discussion on reincarnation I came across this written on other forums by Joanie aka Deep Sea aka Aussiepom aka Petal:

Some folks don't believe in it. I can understand why,the idea seems ridiculous,doesn't it?
But I do believe there is a reason for living over and over again.
What is the use of one life to us?
What does one life do for us?
I believe we live and live over again until we reach that point in time,where there is nothing left for us to learn.
Joanie

There a lot of pro's and con's against reincarntion.
Some believe and some don't.
The only question is.....Where do all the souls go where they reach that period of time in what we call 'Summerland?'
Or are there so many planets in God's universe,we have to live a period of time on each different planet to experience their way of life,not back on our planet we call earth.
Think of the constellations up there in that wonderful space above us.
Joanie


Are you aware you are giving private information away without my permission?
You are going too far,George.
Stop,right now!
Are you aware that Verbal Abuse on forums is being frowned on now?
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Re: real or not?

Post by zerdini on Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:58 am

petal34 wrote:
zerdini wrote:In the discussion on reincarnation I came across this written on other forums by Joanie aka Deep Sea aka Aussiepom aka Petal:

Some folks don't believe in it. I can understand why,the idea seems ridiculous,doesn't it?
But I do believe there is a reason for living over and over again.
What is the use of one life to us?
What does one life do for us?
I believe we live and live over again until we reach that point in time,where there is nothing left for us to learn.
Joanie

There a lot of pro's and con's against reincarntion.
Some believe and some don't.
The only question is.....Where do all the souls go where they reach that period of time in what we call 'Summerland?'
Or are there so many planets in God's universe,we have to live a period of time on each different planet to experience their way of life,not back on our planet we call earth.
Think of the constellations up there in that wonderful space above us.
Joanie


Are you aware you are giving private information away without my permission?
You are going too far,George.
Stop,right now!
Are you aware that Verbal Abuse on forums is being frowned on now?

Don't talk nonsense, Joan.

It is not private information - it's posted on the internet by you!!

If you don't want people to read it don't publish it.

It's nothing to do with verbal abuse - it's your words although I admit you write under different names.

zerdini


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Re: real or not?

Post by petal34 on Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:17 am

zerdini wrote:
petal34 wrote:
zerdini wrote:In the discussion on reincarnation I came across this written on other forums by Joanie aka Deep Sea aka Aussiepom aka Petal:

Some folks don't believe in it. I can understand why,the idea seems ridiculous,doesn't it?
But I do believe there is a reason for living over and over again.
What is the use of one life to us?
What does one life do for us?
I believe we live and live over again until we reach that point in time,where there is nothing left for us to learn.
Joanie

There a lot of pro's and con's against reincarntion.
Some believe and some don't.
The only question is.....Where do all the souls go where they reach that period of time in what we call 'Summerland?'
Or are there so many planets in God's universe,we have to live a period of time on each different planet to experience their way of life,not back on our planet we call earth.
Think of the constellations up there in that wonderful space above us.
Joanie


Are you aware you are giving private information away without my permission?
You are going too far,George.
Stop,right now!
Are you aware that Verbal Abuse on forums is being frowned on now?

Don't talk nonsense, Joan.

It is not private information - it's posted on the internet by you!!

If you don't want people to read it don't publish it.

It's nothing to do with verbal abuse - it's your words although I admit you write under different names.

I will leave this for Admin to read and hopefully take action.
If only to reprimand Mr.Cranley.
I notice there is a few words of warning about appeciating the other's point of vew on forums.
Petal.
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Re: real or not?

Post by zerdini on Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:06 am

petal34 wrote:
zerdini wrote:
petal34 wrote:
zerdini wrote:In the discussion on reincarnation I came across this written on other forums by Joanie aka Deep Sea aka Aussiepom aka Petal:

Some folks don't believe in it. I can understand why,the idea seems ridiculous,doesn't it?
But I do believe there is a reason for living over and over again.
What is the use of one life to us?
What does one life do for us?
I believe we live and live over again until we reach that point in time,where there is nothing left for us to learn.
Joanie

There a lot of pro's and con's against reincarntion.
Some believe and some don't.
The only question is.....Where do all the souls go where they reach that period of time in what we call 'Summerland?'
Or are there so many planets in God's universe,we have to live a period of time on each different planet to experience their way of life,not back on our planet we call earth.
Think of the constellations up there in that wonderful space above us.
Joanie


Are you aware you are giving private information away without my permission?
You are going too far,George.
Stop,right now!
Are you aware that Verbal Abuse on forums is being frowned on now?

Don't talk nonsense, Joan.

It is not private information - it's posted on the internet by you!!

If you don't want people to read it don't publish it.

It's nothing to do with verbal abuse - it's your words although I admit you write under different names.

I will leave this for Admin to read and hopefully take action.
If only to reprimand Mr.Cranley.
I notice there is a few words of warning about appeciating the other's point of vew on forums.
Petal.

Are you saying that you don't agree with what you wrote, Mrs Watkins?

Even though it differs from your original post on this forum.

What exactly is your point of view regarding reincarnation?


zerdini


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Re: real or not?

Post by petal34 on Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:47 am

When we do not know enough about a certain subject we change our minds from a 'yes' or 'no' to belief in that subject.
Many times. I came as a novice on these spiritual sites to learn as you know,you helped me a great deal in different subjects,for that I am grateful.

But I still have the right to change my mind as I learn more about each subject.
I am still learning..... Very Happy
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Re: real or not?

Post by obiwan on Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:23 pm

It's not private if published elsewhere. I don't understand why you are having a strop over it petal. Please explain.

obiwan


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Re: real or not?

Post by petal34 on Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:23 pm

It's called Plagiarism,Obiwan.
And i'm not in a strop.... Smile
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Re: real or not?

Post by zerdini on Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:58 pm

petal34 wrote:It's called Plagiarism,Obiwan.
And i'm not in a strop.... Smile

Plagiarism is defined as "the unauthorized use or close imitation of the language and thoughts of another author and the representation of them as one's own original work, as by not crediting the author".

Full credit was given to you as the author!! Rolling Eyes

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Re: real or not?

Post by petal34 on Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:04 pm

But you did it with an ulterior motive in mind.
To discredit me.

Tut! Tut! George! Not very nice.
Rolling Eyes
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Re: real or not?

Post by KatyKing on Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:25 pm

I love you Come on you two. Kiss and make up.
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Re: real or not?

Post by petal34 on Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:30 pm

KatyKing wrote: I love you Come on you two. Kiss and make up.

Pardon? Very Happy

Oh,this is the battle of a lifetime,KatyKing.
It has continued over 4 sites..... Rolling Eyes
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