Monkeys In The Sun - Leonora Piper

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Monkeys In The Sun - Leonora Piper

Post by Admin on Fri Jan 01, 2010 12:50 am

Albeit coming from Leonora Piper in trance prurportedly under the control of the Spirit of Sir Walter Scott it is no wonder that the individual finds sceptical humour in this section even the SPR recorders broke down laughing

http://mbitter.wordpress.com/2009/12/31/monkeys-in-the-sun-a-spiritualist-drama-in-two-acts/

The transcrpit from teh SPR proceedings Vol 28 1915 follow I make no comment...

APPENDIX TO CHAPTER III.
SPECIMENS OF INDIVIDUAL CONTROLS.
A.
SIB WALTER SCOTT CONTROL.
Two specimen sittings, June 27 and 28, 1895.
Sitter and Recorder, Professor W. Romaine Newbold.
(June 27, 1895.)
[Writing changes to characteristic Scott hand.]
W. S. Good morrow my friend I am now prepared to
finish my discourse or description of spiritual beings.
existences etc. Do you remember where I left off ?
It was, that is to say we were, in the planet Mars.
The lines by the way sir, come with me again, are
you ready Well the lines or spots, so to speak,
are not satellites. They are reflections from the
sun.
W. R. N. Reflections of what ? [hand ignores the question and
pursues the calm and even tenor of its way]
W. S. Well now we wish to see something of the habitations
of the gentlemen who inhabit this planet. Their
houses are similar to those on earth yet more modern
and much less complicated in structure. Do you
wish to speak to me sir as we pass ?
W. R. N. Yes, of what are they made and how ?
W. S. They are made from various kinds of material such as
brick, stone, etc.
438 Mrs. Henry Sidgwick. [PART
W. R. N. These are the houses on the planet Mars of which you
are speaking ?
W. S. I am, yet we do not compare them exactly with those
on earth. They are made according to natural causes
and such atmospheric conditions as it is necessary
from such materials.
W. R. N. Tell me more about the atmospheric conditions.
W. S. I think that I have done so upon other occasions sir,
and were you the gentleman to whom I gave them ?
W. R. N. Not to me, Sir Walter, but to a friend of mine. I have
read what you said, and I think you did not say anything
of the atmosphere.
W. S. Well, pardon me sir, I will then. The planet, as we
see it materially is rather cold. For instance, there
are icebergs and many of them on this planet i.e. on
some parts of it ; in others it is warmer and enough
so to produce vegetation. There are some very beautiful
trees, flowers, etc.
W. R. N. Is the climate fair or cloudy ?
W. S. Very fair, it is in the torrid zone.
W. R. N. You mean it is fair in the torrid zone of Mars ?
W. S. Yes, this only.
W. R. N. Are there inhabitants in other planets ?
W. S. Such as Jupiter ? Well let me ask what you are dreaming
about sir [I misunderstand and think writer is
reproving me for asking such a question of Jupiter,
since I knew well that it was not in a condition to
support life, so I say]
W. R. N. I said nothing of Jupiter, Sir Walter ; I merely asked
whether there is life in any other planets.
W. S. There was a little misunderstanding I think, as we are
now riding through the air.
W. R. N. I beg your pardon ; go on.
W. S. we now leave the planet Mars and we wish to visit others.
First we think of Jupiter. Well as we ride we begin
to discern [for pencil] Thanks something which
to us looks like a dark jagged ball or rock. Well as
we draw nearer we seem to discover smoke as it seems,
then still more of the darkness. Now we are nearing
the planet. As we draw nearer we begin to see sparks
LXXI.] Psychology of Mrs. Piper's Trance. Appendix. 439
which remind us of fire. Now we pass through a
tremendously stifling atmosphere
W. R. N. Not stifling to you ?
W. S. Oh no sir, I am the spirit or life, you are the material
man whom I am taking with me as my guest. You
seem choked, and yet you ask me to go on. Well,
now we wish to pass through this fog of seemingly
smoke, fire, electricity, as Mr. Pelham terms it. I
borrowed the phrase sir, and now we begin to reach
the planet Jupiter. We pass around the surface peeping
into it ... onto it ... and we see nothing of
any importance except the continual sparks, so called,
which conglomerate together and as yet are in a very
unsettled state
W. R. N. Take me further.
W. S. This all seems to us strange and interesting. We see
all in one mass a conglomeration of atmospheres which
when settled in one body looks like a planet.
W. R. N. Then Jupiter is not solid ?
W. S. Not at all solid.
W. R. N. Take me elsewhere, especially where there is life.
W. S. What is the general idea of Jupiter on your planet sir ?
W. R. N. I know little astronomy, Sir Walter, but I think Jupiter
is believed to be a red hot solid surrounded by dense
clouds
W. S. But it is not at all solid as we can pass through it.
W. R. N. Take me where there is life.
W. S. Venus W. R. N. Good.
W. S. so termed is inhabited [Medium's head falls from the
cushion. I say]
W. R. N. Wait a moment Sir Walter while I fix the head of the
medium in place.
W. S. Yes sir. [Hand stops writing until the head is again
. firmly set in place. Phinuit thanks me in stifled
tones. I ask whether the light is going out. Hand
replies]
W. S. The light so called ? No sir. Now sir, we will leave
Jupiter and visit Saturn. Well as we have nothing
much to see there we will first visit Venus. Venus
you will remember on earth looks like a very beautiful
440 Mrs. Henry Sidgwick. [PART
and bright star. Well now we wish to learn all we
can concerning this planet so now we start. We
pass through a long ... of light, so called sky and
we pass on very rapidly until we begin are you tired
sir ?
W. R. N. No, indeed. Go on.
W. S. to feel very much pleased with the atmospheric conditions
through which we are passing. We smell the
most delightful odors possible for the human mind
to understand or sense. Now all is life, light, the
air is as balmy and soft as a spring morning on
earth. Now we realise that we are approaching Venus.
We pass on still in this delightful atmosphere. Now
our eyes are open and we see insects of all kinds and
descriptions, birds of every known [hand hesitates
for some time and then writes] description
W. R. N. You had species in mind, had you not ?
W. 8. species, yes sir, this was exactly the expression which
I wish to express or use their plumage is to you
something magnificent and indescribable. We see them
flitting about from one place to another, apparently
in space, yet as we move on we begin to realize that
we are approaching something more tangible. Now
we see the heavens aglow with light, the perfume
heavenly. The atmosphere warm, balmy, beautiful,
too much so to put in words and express. Now we
feel a slight breeze and we are wafted through the
outer rim as it were into a perfect little heaven by
itself. Nothing ever realized on earth could compare
with this. Now we see no one, i. e. no living
being so to speak, only these beautiful creatures the
trees Like wax, the flowers like the true soul as it were,
they are so really beautiful, the fields are one mass
of green, the flowers of various hues, yet we see not a
man anywhere. We wonder where they all are, we
travel for miles and miles, yet we see nothing but
insects and birds i.e. Living. We wish to ascertain
why this is thus . . . yes sir ... we breathe the
delightful odor while we remain, yet we still see no
living being . . . why . . . why . . . because of the
LXXI.] Psychology of Mrs. Piper's Trance. Appendix. 441
marvellous atmosphere. They are sensitive to this
and cannot survive it.
W. R. N. Did they ever exist ? W. S. Oh no, sir.
W. R. N. You mean then that Venus is passing through a stage
analogous to the carboniferous era on the earth ?
W. S. I do, only it is more perfect and real at this stage.
Birds, insects and flowers grow in this atmosphere
only when the time comes for the flowers to decay
they simply droop, wither and fall, then immediately
others spring up and fill their places. Now we stop
for a moment and wish that we could remain here for
always, yet we are not satisfied, we long to see more.
Now we must go ... pass ... on and leave this
beautiful godlike heaven or planet as it were [my
hand is resting on the paper. The writing hand collides
with it, stops, feels it, finger by finger, writes :]
What is that please, sir ?
W. R. N. My hand.
W. S. Best not disturb me [I, misunderstanding, explain that
I lift the writing hand while I turn the pages of the
block book] Oh thanks not that sir ; it was here
[tapping the spot where my hand had rested] it's
all right sir, pardon me if you please.
Now we wish to visit other places yet we long to remain
here, however we must not, we must go on or in other
words pass on. Now we wish to find the sun. We
move out of Venus, slowly, unwillingly, yet on we
pass until we have reached the outer sphere again.
Now we move on towards the sun, but at first we
feel extremely uncomfortable after having left Venus,
yet we begin to become accustomed to the atmosphere
and now on we go ... on we move ... in
our air vessel towards the sun. We draw nearer and
nearer until we begin to feel as though we were suffocating
again and as we move on we still continue to
feel uncomfortable until we reach this planet, when
the atmosphere begins to clear a little. Now we
excuse the mixture of nouns and pronouns, sir, we
then reach the sun, and we feel cold
W. R. N. Cold ?
442 Mrs. Henry Sidgwick. [PART
W. S. Yes sir we have passed beyond the limit of the former
planets and we feel the various changes as we move.
Now the extreme change takes place, & we feel intensely
hot, as we approach it. Now all is fire, the
fire is intense we do not wish to move on, so now we
find this one centre of heat
W. R. N. Can you, a spirit, feel the heat ? [Finger points deliberately
at me, then hand writes,]
W. S. You, yet I [I express comprehension] pardon, yes sir,
yet I wish you to imagine yourself a spirit well
now. . . .
W. R. N. Sir Walter, is the sun all fire, or has it a solid core ?
W. S. The word is not familiar to me, sir. [I explain] Oh
There is a solid body, sir, which I am now going to
take you to see. We feel destined to reach this foundation
i.e. you desire to do so. Well now we move
on towards this fire, now reach its borders and notwithstanding
the extreme heat we pass through it and
we find ourselves upon a solid bed of hot clay or sand.
This is caused by gravity understand where we are
we have now reached the limit, we find it very warm
and deserted like a deserted island. We wish to find
its inhabitants if there are any i.e. if it has any. Now
we see what we term monkeys, dreadful looking creatures,
black extremely black, very wild. We find
they live in caves which are made in the sand or mud,
clay etc. Now, sir for that I will be obliged to discontinue
our journey until some future time.
W. R. N. Will you come again ?
W. S. Yes, I will look down upon your planet and find you
out. Good morrow, my friend. Leave the sun or
in other words we will remain in it. Adieu
W(June 28, 1895.)
W. S. [Writing] I am here to take you to ... for the
purpose of continuing our journey together.
W. R. N. Before we start, Sir Walter, I would like to ask some
questions.
W. S.' Ah. I see that you remember me.
LXXI.] Psychology of Mrs. Piper's Trance. Appendix. 443
W. R. N. You told me the canals or lines which we see on Mars
are reflections. Of what ?
W. S. Yes, sir, but let me say sir that before I left you I found
out afterward that I had taken you through the
planet, viz. sun and that we had followed it all the
way to the earth. Well sir we were beginning to see
monkeys, don't you recall ?
W. R. N. Yes, and this I could not understand and meant to ask
you.
W. S. No you do not understand my idea [The left hand
begins to gesticulate rapidly, I think it was trying
to use the deaf-mute language] We went to the sun
and experienced heat. Well then we found it unbearably
hot.
W. R. N. Won't you tell that other spirit to go ?
W. S. He is going sir. Then sir. Well then we began to
follow its light as far as the tropic of Capricorn, when
we reached the earth of course, here we saw the
monkeys flying in and out of sand caves. There I
began to lose my grasp on the light.
W. R. N. May I ask a question ? W. S. Yes sir.
W R. N. Is the sun a mass of incandescent vapor or does it contain
a solid centre ?
W. S. It is simply as a planet a mass of heat and lava.
W. R. N. What are the sun spots ?
W. S. This is the shadow of the earth sir.
W. R. N. You are thinking of eclipses. I understand this, but
I mean the black spots sometimes seen on the sun ?
W. S. Oh I beg pardon sir, I did not understand your
question, thoughts,
W. R. N. I beg your pardon.
W. S. No sir, I understand now the spots on the sun are . . .
yes sir ... are the so called satellites which surround
it, this produces a dark mass of spots. [I ask
again about the canals of Mars] First sir let me ask
what is your meaning. Why do you use the term ?
W. R. N. Some astronomers have supposed these marks to be
canals.
W. S. What definition do they give to the word, sir ?
W. R. N. A canal is a large trench or ditch, cut that water may
444 Mrs. Henry Sidgwick. [PART
flow through it. These marks are supposed to be
something of the kind.
W. S On Mars and discernible from earth ? Well they are
not openings at [all] sir, but are reflections caused
by certain lights from the sun sir which brings to
the eye a dim aspect which looks like straight lines
yet they are the peaks and shadows of the mountainous
region in the planet Mars and can only be
seen under certain conditions of light from the
sun.
W. R. N. Let us go on to Saturn and then tell me of the destiny
of the human spirit.
W. S. Yes sir, delighted, this is as much a pleasure to me as
to yourself sir, as to you. Remember we were
following the sun and we finally came to earth because
more particularly of exhaustion. Well do you understand
now that we do not find animal or vegetable
life in the sun.
W. R. N. I am glad to hear that, for it troubled us.
W. S. Oh you could not have thought that I wished to convey
the idea that there were actually monkeys living
in the sun, sir.
W. R. N. Take me on further.
W. S. Yes sir, I will now take you to the moon which
is opaque. We find here mountains and valleys only,
consequently we do not wish to remain. Excuse me,
sir, a moment. Who was the gentleman with whom
I saw you seemingly laughing over my journeys with
you ! Actually laughing . . . yes sir ... and roaring
enough to split the canopy of heaven
W. R. N. That was Dr. Hodgson who is doing more to establish
the truth of spirit communication than almost any
one living. We were laughing chiefly at the statement
that there were monkeys in the sun. I beg
your pardon.
1
1 Dr. Newbold says about this (Proceedings, Vol. XIV., pp. 48-49) :
" That night {i.e. June 27} while writing up the sitting at Dr. Hodgson's
rooms, ten miles from Mrs. Piper, Dr. Hodgson and I fell to laughing
over this preposterous statement {about monkeys in the sun} ; so loudly
indeed did we laugh that I finally cautioned Dr. H. that we should be
wakening the whole block.. Scott.


Last edited by Admin on Fri Jan 01, 2010 2:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Monkeys In The Sun - Leonora Piper

Post by Admin on Fri Jan 01, 2010 2:10 am

For interest despite this rather extraordinary communication there were significant reasons why Leonora Piper was so highly rated
Almost the entire proceedings of 1915 concern her as she was so heavily researched by the SPR. In teh introduction all the then SPR papers are listed

To show this
PROCEEDINGS
OF THE
Society for Psychical Research.
PART LXXI.
DECEMBER, 1915.
A CONTRIBUTION TO THE STUDY OF THE
PSYCHOLOGY OF MRS. PIPER'S TRANCE
PHENOMENA.
BY MRS. HENRY SIDGWICK.
PREFACE.
The main interest of Mrs. Piper's trance phenomena lies
undoubtedly in the evidence they afford of knowledge acquired
otherwise than through the senses whether from the living
or from the dead. This evidence has been set forth and
discussed in numerous papers in the Proceedings, of which
a list is given below. To these papers I must refer those
who are interested only in such evidential matter. For in
the present paper they will not find what they want. There
is no attempt in it to give any of the evidence for supernormal
powers, with which it is concerned only incidentally.
Its object is to throw light on the working of the trance
ii Mrs. Henry Sidgwick. [PART
consciousnesses from a psychological point of view, and, among
other things, on the question whether the intelligence that speaks
or writes in the trance, and is sometimes in telepathic communication
with other minds (whether of the living or of
the dead), is other than a phase, or centre of consciousness,
of Mrs. Piper herself.
A LIST OF PAPERS CONCERNING MRS. PIPER
PREVIOUSLY PUBLISHED IN THE PROCEEDINGS
Vol. VI. (1890), pp. 136-659. "A Record of Observations
of Certain I na of Trance," by F. W. H. Myers,
Sir Oliver Lodge, Dr. Walter Leaf and Professor William
.lames.
This deals with the sittings m Ki.irliimi in 1889-1890.
Vol. VIII. (1892), pp. 1-168. "A Record of Observations of
Certain Phenomena of Trance," by Dr Richard Hodgson.
This deals with sittings in America from 1886 to 1891.
Vol. XIII. (1898), pp. 284-682. "A Further Record of Observations
of Certain Phenomena of Trance," by Dr
R. Hodgson.
This deals with sittings in America from 1892 M 1895.
Vol. XIV. (1898), pp. 6-49. "A Further Record ..f Observations
of Certain Phenomena of Trance," by Professor
Romaine Newbold.
This deals with sittings with which Professor Newbold
was concerned from 1891 to 1895.
LXXI.] Psychology of Mrs. Piper's Trance. Papers. iii
Vol. XVI. (1901), pp. 1-649. "A Further Record of Observations
of Certain Trance Phenomena," by Professor
J. H. Hyslop.
This deals with Professor Hyslop's sittings in 1898-1899,
and contains also accounts of certain experiments by him,
and discussions. Professor Hyslop has published accounts
of his later sittings in the Proceedings of the [new] American
Society for Psychical Research.
Vol. XXII. (1908), pp. 19-440. "A Series of Concordant
Automatisms," by Mr. J. G. Piddington.
This deals with concordant automatisms between Mrs.
Piper and other automatists, and some experiments during
her visit to England in 1906-7.
Vol. XXIII. (1909), pp. 2-121. "Report on Mrs. Piper's
Hodgson-Control," by Professor William James.
This records and discusses the Hodgsonp communications
whether as control or communicator during the year following
his death, namely 1906.
Vol. XXIII. (1909), pp. 127-280. "Report on some Trance
Communications received chiefly through Mrs. Piper,"
by Sir Oliver Lodge.
Most of this paper is concerned with sittings with Mrs.
Piper arranged for by Sir Oliver Lodge, and at which
he was generally present, in England, in 1889, 1890, 1906,
1907. Two sittings in 1905 in America are included.
Vol. XXIV. (1910), pp. 31-200. "Further Experiments with
Mrs. Piper in 1908," by Mrs. H. Sidgwick, Mrs. A. W.
Verrall and Mr. J. G. Piddingfcon.
This deals with Mr. G. B. Dorr's sittings in America in 1908.
Vol. XXIV. (1910), pp. 351-664. "Report on the Junot
Sittings with Mrs. Piper," by Miss H. de G. Verrall.
This gives the record of all
" Bennie Junot's
" communications
from 1899-1905.
a2
iv Mrs. Henry Sidgtoick. [PART
All the above papers are primarily concerned with th<>
exhibition in Mrs. Piper's trances of knowledge supern<>nn.illy
acquired, though incidentally some other points are discussed.
There have also appeared in the Proceedings four papers
discussing the published evidence, viz. :
Vol. XTV. (1898), pp. 60-78. "Discussion of the Trance
Phenomena of Mrs. Piper," by F. Podmore.
This paper takes the view that there is undoubtedly
telepathy with the living, but insufficient evidence to jn-.
>vanything
further. The Piper phenomena are compared with
those of Adele Maginot and others.
Vol. XV. (1900), pp. 16-38.
"
Discussion of the Trance
Phenomena of Mrs. Piper," by Mrs. Henry Sidgwi
This paper takes the view that, assuming there is communication
with the dead through Mrs. Piper, the evidence
poiints to it being telepathic in character.
Vol. XV. (1900), pp. 39-62. "Discussion of the Trance
Phenomena of Leonora. Piper," by Andrew Lang.
This paper is described by its author as
"
Reflections on Mrs.
Piper and Telepathy."
Vol. XXVI. (1912), pp. 147-173. "The Latin Message Experiment,"
by Bin. Anna Hude (with Note on same by
Mr. J. G. Piddington).
This discusses one of the experiments in 1906-7 an published
in Vol. XXII.
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Re: Monkeys In The Sun - Leonora Piper

Post by obiwan on Fri Jan 01, 2010 11:35 am

Hm. Life on Mars is it?

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Re: Monkeys In The Sun - Leonora Piper

Post by Zandorf on Fri Jan 01, 2010 11:43 am

Yep, and clay Monkeys on the Sun.............
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Re: Monkeys In The Sun - Leonora Piper

Post by obiwan on Fri Jan 01, 2010 7:06 pm

lol

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Re: Monkeys In The Sun - Leonora Piper

Post by Admin on Fri Jan 01, 2010 11:42 pm

Sadly from way back we had communicators sharing life on other planets even Andrew Jackson Davis now in the inimtable words of Star Trek maybe it is life "but not as we know it"
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