Silver Birch

Page 2 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: Silver Birch

Post by Admin on Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:48 am

Z tried an explanation with me at one time. It wa along teh lines of SB feeling that as death was not a threat to teh Spirit there was no need to prolong life. Personally I cannot see how we could not on compassionate grounds not attempt our utmost to prolong lives, additionally this seemed out of step with the rest of his caring words.

We do know that when an individual has majotr organ transplants teh effect of teh merging a large nucleus of DNA can cause personality changes. I have written about that elsewhere on the forum. However, for the life of me I cannot see how it affects the Spirit and some people are so changed by the experiences, for the better it must be good.

I suppose with no blood transfusions or transplants the worlds population would be so much smaller, very many of us would not be alive, I would not have survived my leaking appendix without blood transfusions gone age 13.

I did not buy Z's argument just felt that the odd jarring moment in an otherwise decent set of writings was Barbanells sunconscious interfering.

Neither did I buy z's argument about the trance communications By Andrew Jackson Davis and others with the denizens of Mars, Venus and Saturn. the argument was teh Star Trek defence rhere was life there that they communicated with but not as we know it. My preference is that in a trance like state the mediums subconscious had run a little imaginatively.

Jim
avatar
Admin
Admin


Back to top Go down

Re: Silver Birch

Post by Wes on Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:05 am

That leads to something that is puzzling me Jim, if you are in a deep trance (so deep that being stuck with pins won't wake you) how is it that your subconscious can interfere with channeled information? Wouldn't part of your training or preparation for trance work largely stop that from happening? I'd think that spirit would look for suitable vessels that for whatever reason wouldn't have an interfering subconscious.
avatar
Wes


Back to top Go down

Re: Silver Birch

Post by petal34 on Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:26 am

Going back here in posts.
Think I have the right topic.
Read it last evening but was too tired to post.

About Transplants.
I remember reading about spirit not believing in transplants or something like that.
Life is supposed to be lived as per agreement for next life in Reincarnation.
We live our life without any 'aid' to prolong that life.
Am I correct? Did SB actually state that in his messages?
Joan
avatar
petal34


Back to top Go down

Re: Silver Birch

Post by Admin on Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:02 pm

Wes wrote:That leads to something that is puzzling me Jim, if you are in a deep trance (so deep that being stuck with pins won't wake you) how is it that your subconscious can interfere with channeled information? Wouldn't part of your training or preparation for trance work largely stop that from happening? I'd think that spirit would look for suitable vessels that for whatever reason wouldn't have an interfering subconscious.

Absolutely correct in theory Wes, however a trance session like SB can be very long and I doubt that, once a reliable communicator has started the session you ever re check the communication. Indeed the sticking pins in the medium died some time ago, thank God, although DT will ask people to check his pulse. I know, with absolute accuracy that the one time I observed this the Doctors present felt he was not in trance. There are many martial arts and meditative skills that will allow you to have pins stuck in or walk over hot coals, indeed even to stop your pulse briefly.

With trance communcation we are left with evaluating the proof given by the communicator about his existence and/or the quality of what is given to us.
avatar
Admin
Admin


Back to top Go down

Re: Silver Birch

Post by KatyKing on Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:24 pm

Slowing your pulse is an old mentalists trick and is dead easy.
Small solid rubber ball in the armpit and squeeze. That pulse slows down. Squeeze harder and pulse stops.
It's in all the standard magic books.
Sticking pins was popular in the old days too. Makes for a good show. Fire tests as well holding hand over a hot flame.
Mind over matter. Don't try this at home; but with focus and practice it can be done.
Now having said all that I have seen Johnny Eagles in trance poking a meat skewer through his tongue top to bottom. Genuinely through no question. No a wound nor a speck of blood afterwards.
avatar
KatyKing


Back to top Go down

Re: Silver Birch

Post by Left Behind on Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:39 pm

Wes wrote:
Left Behind wrote:
Wes wrote:
Left Behind wrote:So all these Spiritualist and NDE accounts of people who passed on hundreds of years ago. . . aging up to or back to their physical prime, remembering people they left behind, enjoying the same activities they enjoyed on earth. . . all these are incorrect?

If I understand your question correctly, these are cases where those in spirit have projected a facsimile of their physical form & personality for the purpose of communicating with people on earth.

No. But that introduces another topic.

I don't believe that there "are cases where those in spirit have projected a facsimile of their physical form and personality for the purpose of communicating with people on earth."

I do believe that the actual personalities of those in spirit communicate with people on earth. I believe that they enter spirit with precisely the same personalities they departed this life. I believe that these personalities are eternal. Yes, these personalities develop and modify over time. This should not be surprising. Is a man of 40 exactly the same person he was at 14? No, and we would hope not! But he is still the same person. Just as we will still be the same person after 10 0r 100 or 1,000 years in spirit that we are today on earth.

I am who I am. I have never been anyone else. I will never be anyone else.

Spiritualist and NDE accounts prove that we live on. We remember our lives on earth. We remember our loved ones we left behind. And we continue to live real lives, in real bodies, in a real world that's just as material as this one: only very different, and much better! Very Happy

Left Behind, there is a lot that I agree with there, where I would differ is that the personality we have on earth is an expression of that minute part of our soul that is able to manifest in our physical bodies. Once that body dies and we are reunited with that greater part of our soul, then that human personality is insignificant compared to our greater self-expression, and would only serve a purpose as long as you have ties to people on earth.

Personality is how we communicate with each other on earth, and is an expression of who we are, but it isn't an expression of what we are. What we are is a physical manifestation of spirit and how we show that is in our intentions and actions, which are independant of personality. Acts of love, compassion and healing are authentic expressions of that spark of spirit and are not influenced by personality. It's those acts that define ourselves as we move beyond this world, not what colour we like or if we're grumpy in the morning. Spiritual growth is about learning new things and letting go of things that no longer serve a purpose, and the human personality is one of those things that has a use-by date as we progress further and further into the infinite.

OK.

But let me ask the question this way: do you believe that, say, 1,000 years after you pass into Spirit, you will BE the same person you are now?

I don't mean, in a completely unaltered manner: but in the same sense that the man of 80 on his deathbed is the same person he was 80 years previously when his mother was giving birth to him?

My answer is a resounding YES.

I don't believe that I ever was or ever will be anyone or anything else. I don't believe that the person I am now is merely 1 of 10,000 different people I have been or will be: in the sense of an actor playing roles.

I believe that I will always remember the name I have now: my earthly parents: the schools I attended: my wife: pets I owned: etc.

This isn't to say that what I'm doing at the moment won't slip into the background. A person of 40 doesn't, in a typical day, think about the classes he attended in high school. New concerns occupy his attention. New knowledge has entered his head. His values may have changed over the years. Certainly his resposibilities will be different.

Nevertheless, he still IS that same person he was in high school.

And, I believe, will be for eternity.

I find that thought very comforting. Very Happy

Left Behind


Back to top Go down

Re: Silver Birch

Post by Wes on Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:01 am

How do you define the "me" that is the one constant in your ever changing life, where personality, values, knowledge and wisdom are all fluid and evolve over time?

If by "me" you mean the part of your spirit that has manifested as your physical self, then I have no argument with that.




avatar
Wes


Back to top Go down

Re: Silver Birch

Post by Left Behind on Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:30 pm

Wes wrote:How do you define the "me" that is the one constant in your ever changing life, where personality, values, knowledge and wisdom are all fluid and evolve over time?

If by "me" you mean the part of your spirit that has manifested as your physical self, then I have no argument with that.





As we learn, as our goals change, as our interests change, as our values change: do WE become someone else? No, we remain the same person: albeit one who is ever changing, ever learning.

By "me", I don't mean "the part of my spirit that has manifested as my physical self". I mean "the spirit that is presently manifesting in my physical body and will continue to manifest in my spiritual body after this physical body dies."

There is no "part" of our spirit. There is only "our spirit".

Left Behind


Back to top Go down

Re: Silver Birch

Post by Left Behind on Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:37 pm

I figure I could take 1,000 years in Summer Land quite nicely, Peter. After that: who knows? I might want to move upward and inward.

Three things I'm convinced of, though: one is that I don't want to return to a mortal decadent physical body, on this or any other planet.

The other is that I'm always going to be the same person I am now.

And the third thing is: if I'm wrong about No. 2, then you can have my share of "merging with the infinite whatever". No: given any choice in the matter, I'll stay me.

Others are welcome to become a neuron in God's brain, if they wish. Razz

Jim

Left Behind


Back to top Go down

Re: Silver Birch

Post by Wes on Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:50 am

Just out of interest, would you still be the same person if your soul had been born on this planet not as Left Behind, but as, say, a peasant women in rural China, who grew up on a farm knowing nothing more than how to tend the land?

avatar
Wes


Back to top Go down

Re: Silver Birch

Post by Left Behind on Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:23 am

Would I be the same person I am now if I were born a poor peasant woman in China? No: in that case, I'd be the poor Chinese peasant woman.

I'd always be her.

Just as I'll always be the person I am now.

Same answer regardless of what "I'd" have been born as. The "I" would be whatever I was born as.

Left Behind


Back to top Go down

Re: Silver Birch

Post by Wes on Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:53 am

Where I'm coming from is the concept that souls choose to have a human existence on earth, and that existence is pretty much like a snake's skin - it is shrugged off once it has served its purpose. I get the impression that you see the soul as being indivisible from the human body/experience, is that right?
avatar
Wes


Back to top Go down

Re: Silver Birch

Post by Admin on Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:41 am

It is a very importand division Wes. I think many may be very willing to cut the ties to this life and body when they discover that, in the Spirit World, they are actually alive as individual beings.

We are only who we are, in the earth plane, because of a complex mix of beings, we could have been a part of earlier lives if in accordance with Silver Birch we so chose to reincarnate or we could be a new spirit split off from the source to become a new spiritual identity(which SB and Lis mention). When we enter this body we accept it with all its genetic material and its genetic makeup. We also accept it with whatever other defects or abilities we find inherently in its mental and physical functioning.

The physical body is not just the skeleton it is the functioning brain, mental processes and genetics via the DNA. This includes memories of our ancestors lives (the physical ancestors not the spiritual ones because we may have had none and they would relate to life in Spirit) which can be obtained via hypnotic regression, although why you would want to find out the issues your Grandma dealt with is beyond me.

Whatever else we think we know it is clear that very early on, even if we were either an identified spirit reincarnated. or a new fragment of the source we forget about life in Spirit pre this existence.

As a Spirit with no prior life, a new fragment of the source, there can be no Karma and in a Spiritualist view even if we reincarnate we dealt with the past life issues in the life review after that life.

So we are on a journey through life, the influence of our parents, close friends and relatives will influence and affect us as we grow. The type of social, religious and physical environment we grow up in will influence us to develop our own personality.

Whichever way we look the soul is drawn through life by the motive power of the source God’s majestic physical creation. It may also be subject to its drives and urges regardless of the will that it may have.

Indeed in some cases the fact the Spirit within never fully becomes aware of its existence then only when the physical body passes will it understand what has happened? Look around at the number of people who reject the concept of a future life or place their own limitations on this, I will remain in the ground until the trumpet sounds and the righteous are resurrected from the grave (a chilling thought as all these worm-eaten skeletons arise from the dirt…God forbid you were one of the good and were cremated).

On a new thread in the general area I posted a topic Are you good or Evil. It seems psychopaths are likely to come from a group with a specific problem in the brain combined with a specific gene. However, it also appears that the impact can be curtailed by the impact of the personal life of the individual. That is the hard wiring is not made active.

I raise this because too often as Spiritualists we look for a Spirit hypothesis whereas the Spirit may just be travelling this life, forced to be an observer, neither fully awake to its inner potential or able to influence the composite being sufficiently. At the end we will all end up back in Spirit regardless. However, in many ways the one who journeys without expectation may get to the end and be happier with the outcome when compared to those who fix a view of what that end will be.

I have only one expectation, I will survive, from communications through me to other people, I would assume that I will take an interest in the loved ones I leave behind and may be one of the very few who get a chance to communicate with them. Very few because communicating requires that they believe it is possible and may attempt to place themselves somewhere where that communication will happen.

There will come a time when those loved one’s I knew have joined me in Spirit and, if they had children all I will be is a ghost from the past where they would not know enough about me to communicate effectively. During that period I hope that I will be already working on my progression By the time I go through what little retirement I can get I will have rested enough.

Anyway, I have no real idea of what awaits me there and the changes that are to come, I have no intention of getting to the other side and vegetating. That physical body will have gone and I will be a being of very different energetic frequency to the one I am now.

I really cannot take to the "summerland" concept because for there to be our own personal summerland we may find we are the only one that likes it, a strangely selfishly created personal space. Do we slot it in alongside the personal summerland of the Spirit next door and complain about the late nights and loud noises?

Its an interesting thought but I think what it is a reminder of how we assume we will remain in Humanoid form (Sticking by the old testament God made man in His form) and relate everything to our existing shape and five senses which will not be how it is in the Spirit World.
avatar
Admin
Admin


Back to top Go down

Re: Silver Birch

Post by Left Behind on Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:38 pm

Wes wrote:Where I'm coming from is the concept that souls choose to have a human existence on earth, and that existence is pretty much like a snake's skin - it is shrugged off once it has served its purpose. I get the impression that you see the soul as being indivisible from the human body/experience, is that right?

Precisely!

Souls make no choices about being born. The soul enters the embryo, the etheric and physical bodies develop, the child is born - or not - and lives for a number of years. The physical body dies, the soul now encased "solely" in the etheric body goes to an etheric plane of existence, either better or worse than what it had experienced on earth.

What happens in the next step is debatable. Many believe that even the etheric body expires, and the soul progresses to still higher realms.

Always upward, or potentially so.

Dogs chase their tails. Little children spin around till they make themselves dizzy, and then fall down. But souls progress.

Left Behind


Back to top Go down

Re: Silver Birch

Post by Left Behind on Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:54 pm

Admin wrote:

I really cannot take to the "summerland" concept because for there to be our own personal summerland we may find we are the only one that likes it, a strangely selfishly created personal space. Do we slot it in alongside the personal summerland of the Spirit next door and complain about the late nights and loud noises?

Its an interesting thought but I think what it is a reminder of how we assume we will remain in Humanoid form (Sticking by the old testament God made man in His form) and relate everything to our existing shape and five senses which will not be how it is in the Spirit World.

Every NDE and Spiritualist account I've ever read has us, post mortem, living in humanoid form, and with five (or more) senses.

Every Spiritualist account I've ever read has life in the spirit world as being one of great joy and harmony.

So why is this "not how it will be in the Spirit World"?

Left Behind


Back to top Go down

Re: Silver Birch

Post by Admin on Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:00 am

Hi Jim,

Ther are accounts from Spiritualist records that are very much not about
life in the spirit world as being one of great joy and harmony

Many of these take a very different view, one example which repelled me was with places wher Suicides are stuck for years as a penance, one version as in a sea of mud. Some of the early Spiritualists seemed quite capable of writing the same visions that their contemporary Christians had about the purgatory awaiting the uninlightened.

Now which versions do we accept and which to reject. Yet teh debate is about Silver Birch and his teachings which carried much less, in the specifics of our life style, about the world awaiting for us.

It is these teachings that tell me we can expect a place that should be better but where we still are involved in our progress. I just do not see a Summerland of small cottages, cosy fires and slippers. However as these will be created by energy then maybe we create our own personal ideal.
avatar
Admin
Admin


Back to top Go down

Re: Silver Birch

Post by Wes on Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:20 am

Aye Jim, Silver Birch taks about graduated levels of existence where each level is only lightly changed from the one before it. With the main difference between this world and the next one being the shrugging off of the physical body.

So those who want to have a holiday can do so, and those who want to work at advancing their knowledge can do that as well. Silver Birch talks of his organisation having yearly meetings where progress is discussed and plans made for the future. It all sounds very corporate, so there must be something for everyone there, including those who are stuck in belief systems that don't allow them to fully embrace what is opening up to them.

avatar
Wes


Back to top Go down

Re: Silver Birch

Post by Wes on Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:37 am

Left Behind wrote:
Wes wrote:Where I'm coming from is the concept that souls choose to have a human existence on earth, and that existence is pretty much like a snake's skin - it is shrugged off once it has served its purpose. I get the impression that you see the soul as being indivisible from the human body/experience, is that right?

Precisely!

Souls make no choices about being born. The soul enters the embryo, the etheric and physical bodies develop, the child is born - or not - and lives for a number of years. The physical body dies, the soul now encased "solely" in the etheric body goes to an etheric plane of existence, either better or worse than what it had experienced on earth.

What happens in the next step is debatable. Many believe that even the etheric body expires, and the soul progresses to still higher realms.

Always upward, or potentially so.

Dogs chase their tails. Little children spin around till they make themselves dizzy, and then fall down. But souls progress.

Then we agree to disagree Very Happy
avatar
Wes


Back to top Go down

Re: Silver Birch

Post by Wes on Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:55 am

My partner's family used to run a cafe on the Gold Coast when it was little more than a surfer's getaway. When it was getting near to closing time and customers were still lingering, she was allowed to put on her Led Zeppelin records at full volume over the Cafe's sound system. The Cafe was empty shortly after.

Returning to my earlier comments about those in spirit projecting an image of their physical selves for the means of communicating with loved ones back on earth, my own experience as a MiT (Medium in Training) tends to confirm that. When overshadowed by those in spirit, I invariably get an image of what they were like close to the point of death. In most cases that meant feeling very old, weary, infirm and even having the sensation of suffering from a stroke, lung disease or worse.

Now if that is the fixed form that people retain when they cross over, then the next world is going to be more like a hospice or nursing home than the wonderful Summerland that keeps being referred to. So to my mind the idea that those in spirit can project an image of themselve as they were, rather than as they are carries a lot of weight from my own experience, and certainly backs up what Silver Birch has said on the matter.
avatar
Wes


Back to top Go down

Re: Silver Birch

Post by Admin on Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:56 am

Agreed Wes but then I always like the thought and care you bring to looking at development.
avatar
Admin
Admin


Back to top Go down

Re: Silver Birch

Post by Wes on Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:03 am

Admin wrote:Agreed Wes but then I always like the thought and care you bring to looking at development.

Thank you Adjim, I am out of place in the circle I'm in now though. It seems that most of the others, including the leader, are in a hurry to do
anything and everything under the Sun. Sadly I am older and more cautious than that and would rather be safe than reckless. That has been seen
as being fearful, which is true to some extent, but I don't see anything wrong in being careful, even if it looks like fear. But I digress, oh no!





avatar
Wes


Back to top Go down

Re: Silver Birch

Post by Admin on Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:07 am

It is not a trivial digression Wes but a very important one. Sadly I know how hard you have worked to find a place up there. I do not think we will be getting anything from the trance work in Queensland at the SB level.

However, going slowly makes sense in this work may be Barbanell took a Big Jump into trance mediumship but that was in a home circle that had been working with trance from mediums of the calibre of Estelle Roberts.
avatar
Admin
Admin


Back to top Go down

Re: Silver Birch

Post by Wes on Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:10 am

Admin wrote:It is not a trivial digression Wes but a very important one. Sadly I know how hard you have worked to find a place up there. I do not think we will be getting anything from the trance work in Queensland at the SB level.

However, going slowly makes sense in this work may be Barbanell took a Big Jump into trance mediumship but that was in a home circle that had been working with trance from mediums of the calibre of Estelle Roberts.

I do miss sitting in Lis' circle, and yours Jim. Do you remember when we did spoon bending in your group, and only a few managed to do it, including Trevor of all people, and all I got for my efforts was a bad headache. I wouldn't mind having another go at it up here - unfinished business Very Happy

avatar
Wes


Back to top Go down

Re: Silver Birch

Post by Admin on Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:16 am

Lol true, unless you can get down here in the next 2 weeks I am having another night of it. As ever just to demonstrate our own inherent ability to link to the Psychic Force not Spirit. Still get about a 30% success record.
avatar
Admin
Admin


Back to top Go down

Re: Silver Birch

Post by Wes on Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:24 am

Admin wrote:Lol true, unless you can get down here in the next 2 weeks I am having another night of it. As ever just to demonstrate our own inherent ability to link to the Psychic Force not Spirit. Still get about a 30% success record.

If it was a 100% you'd run out of spoons vey quickly!

Wasn't Anne Gemen able to use spirit assistance to bend spoons?
avatar
Wes


Back to top Go down

Re: Silver Birch

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum