Hi all! Is there anyone here?

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Hi all! Is there anyone here?

Post by Torekka on Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:11 pm

Hi,
I'm interested in Spiritism though the forums on it are pretty dead and I see there's a subforum here dedicated to it. Spiritism is just one form of Spirtitualism right?

Torekka


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Re: Hi all! Is there anyone here?

Post by mac on Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:16 pm

Torekka wrote:Hi,
I'm interested in Spiritism though the forums on it are pretty dead and I see there's a subforum here dedicated to it. Spiritism is just one form of Spirtitualism right?

How do you see it?

You've probably viewed this but if not https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvBd0ARo6Zs

mac


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Re: Hi all! Is there anyone here?

Post by Torekka on Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:30 pm

I'll look at the video now but all I can say is, wow that was a very fast response! This place seems so quiet although the spiritist one was quieter.

Torekka


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Re: Hi all! Is there anyone here?

Post by Admin on Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:18 pm

Hi Torekka,

Interesting point, thanks for the quick response Mac.

I set up the sub forum on here because whilst we approach Spirit from a similar basis ther are considerable differences in the substance and approach Torreka.

For example there is also a seperate forum for reincarnation. In Spiritism re incarnation is a given reality, Spiritualism does has not adopted reincarnation because there is no absolute proof of it, if ther is Spiritualism feel it would be by the choice of the individual in Spirit not the necessity that is included in Spiritism. The Spirits Book, which is the foundation of Spiritism, assembled by Allan Kardec from the writings received by many mediums, also has that reincarnation including potential punishment for mis deeds in a past life, which is outside of Spiritualism's teaching that you deal with those when you return to Spirit.

The books by Allan Kardec form a Bible to Spiritism, which is in some ways odd because Kardec himself did not wish it to be a Religion (In the same way that Swedenborg never intended to create a Church; his followers did some years after his death The New Church). Their teachings are followed very closely although others have produced qritings from Spirit that they see as adding to this teaching. Spiritualism is much more free form with just a set of principles and some writings like those of Rev Stainton Moses (often quoted as the Spiritualist Bible), Sir Arthur Findlay and the trance teachings from Silver Birch.

Mediumship in Spiritism is about trance communication from Spirit not providing evidence of the survival of the human soul and personality

I hasten to say that I am approaching this from the pure form of Spiritualism and Spiritism. Just as Spiritualist Centres can drift into the New Age in parts of Latin America Spiritism can move towards voodoo and other forms of religion.

The base is common, however, survival beyond death , the ability of Spirit to communicate and the ability to provide Spiritual healing. Interestingly in parts of the USA where Spiritist and Spiritualist centres are in short supply I find Spiritualists actually seem to feel more comfortable in Unitarian or Universalist Churches. I have also found that the few Brazilian Spiritists that have visited us have trouble with the focus on Survival Mediumship.
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Re: Hi all! Is there anyone here?

Post by mac on Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:57 am

When I was first exposed to all this spooks stuff ( Laughing ) I studied Kardec's book and thought it was all I needed to understand 'the big picture'.  As I grew in knowledge, got a little experience, asked a few questions, contemplated what I was hearing, I started to pull away from some of the material Kardec had compiled.  

But as you point out, Jim, there are fundamental similarities between Spiritism and Modern Spiritualism and when I watched the video whose link I posted I found more similarities than differences.  Online I find as few individuals referring to Spiritism as I do Spiritualism, neither being much known about.

mac


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Re: Hi all! Is there anyone here?

Post by Torekka on Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:52 pm

I heard leftbehind say someting similar about spiritism becoming like voodoo, something about poor chickens? Say speaking of voodoo we in South Africa have anscestor worship and sangomas that apparently talk to spirits though it's generally believed by Christians to be demons mascarading as spirits. If I were to make my own observations I don't find their practices positive but I'm somewhat sceptical demons are involved.

Torekka


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Re: Hi all! Is there anyone here?

Post by mac on Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:01 pm

Isn't your enquiry supposed to be about Spiritism?

mac


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Re: Hi all! Is there anyone here?

Post by Torekka on Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:04 pm

Sorry, I just got carried away. But I'm intrigued as to how spiritism is becoming like voodoo.

Torekka


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Re: Hi all! Is there anyone here?

Post by Admin on Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:43 am

Hi Torreka enthusiasm is fine, Guess where Voodoo came from, an amalgamation of African Beliefs through slavery. Like Modern Spiritualism the major Spiritist centres stay very true to their roots. However both groups have centres that have spun off and added a variety of other elements to their belief systems.

Some of the churches in New Orleans are a wonderful mix of Christian, Spiritist, Spiritualist and African traditional beliefs. Talking to a Brazilian Spiritis he noted that they veer from being Catholic right out to a point where Spiritism is virtually non existent in their worship.
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Re: Hi all! Is there anyone here?

Post by hiorta on Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:42 am

Do /does gods/ god require worship in any case?
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Re: Hi all! Is there anyone here?

Post by Torekka on Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:20 pm

@hiorta Good question. @admin that's interesting.
Now my posts might not be very focused so I apologize but I said I was interested in Spiritim because I became knowledgable of its existence before Spirtualism, in reality at this stage I'm open to both.

Now I come from a standard Protestant Christian background but we were never that intense and later on I became uncomfortable with it partially because of how Heaven and Hell were perported to work. They use a lot of fear mongering to keep people in their Line of faith. The mainstream Christians instill a fear of Spirit communication because they say "it's just demons". To some extent the idea still scares me a bit.

However the thing that made me consider the spiritualistic ways was that Mainstream Christians I feel lie about having communication with God. Spiritualists and Spiritists are at least in contact with the spirit world. They also strike me as more positive than main stream Christianity.

Torekka


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Re: Hi all! Is there anyone here?

Post by mac on Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:32 pm

quote: "Spiritualists and Spiritists are at least in contact with the spirit world. They also strike me as more positive than main stream Christianity." Damned with faint praise....  Very Happy  

No matter but let's please make this simpler and accurate.  

Modern Spiritualism provides evidence of life beyond physical death and Spiritistism probably does much the same. (I'm not a Spiritist so I don't actually know that.)  But Spiritualists and Spiritists aren't defined by their ability to contact discarnates in the world of the spirit.  Sensitives, psychics and mediums have such contact but just being a Spiritualist isn't predicated by being in one of those categories.

As for being more positive I think it's fair to say that Spiritualists are indeed positive about life beyond death whereas some/many/most/mainstream religions kinda promise it but don't provide evidence and may even warn against communication with discarnates.  I don't single out out any particular religion from any other.

mac


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Re: Hi all! Is there anyone here?

Post by Torekka on Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:46 am

According to the series of videos about Spiritism Mac posted a link to Allan Kardec I think is quoted in saying everyone is a medium in varying degrees...

Torekka


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Re: Hi all! Is there anyone here?

Post by mac on Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:56 am

Torekka wrote:According to the series of videos about Spiritism Mac posted a link to Allan Kardec I think is quoted in saying everyone is a medium in varying degrees...

The term "varying degrees" is similar to saying 'up to' when we're talking about discounts, broadband download speeds etc. It needs a lot more explanation of the bench marks to be truly meaningful.

mac


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Re: Hi all! Is there anyone here?

Post by hiorta on Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:59 am

Or, just about everyone has mediumistic potential?
Seems so.
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Re: Hi all! Is there anyone here?

Post by mac on Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:16 pm

hiorta wrote:Or, just about everyone has mediumistic potential?
Seems so.
'

Just as we have the potential to be concert pianists perhaps? The difference between potential and actual - reality - can be significant.

mac


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Re: Hi all! Is there anyone here?

Post by hiorta on Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:38 pm

Aye indeed mac, and the great yawning gap between.
In Mediumship though there is an intermediary - the guiding influence - however it operates.
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Re: Hi all! Is there anyone here?

Post by Torekka on Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:07 pm

Personally I don't think I've encountered anything supernatural/paranormal ever. Though I used to be really scared of ghosts after watching "Is it real?" I then started suspecting every little shadow or click to be from them, I think I was just being paranoid though.

Torekka


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Re: Hi all! Is there anyone here?

Post by mac on Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:15 am

You're wandering now.....

mac


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Re: Hi all! Is there anyone here?

Post by Torekka on Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:35 am

I'm sorry, I'll try to stop... I suppose I just don't know enough.

Torekka


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Re: Hi all! Is there anyone here?

Post by mac on Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:47 am

Torekka wrote:I'm sorry, I'll try to stop... I suppose I just don't know enough.

There's a way to rectify that situation.....

mac


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Re: Hi all! Is there anyone here?

Post by mac on Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:01 am

hiorta wrote:Aye indeed mac, and the great yawning gap between.
In Mediumship though there is an intermediary - the guiding influence - however it operates.

For that intermediary to function most effectively it needs suitable material with which, on which, to work. If the material fails to reach its potential for whatever reason, the efficacy of that guiding influence to bring about communication could be expected to be constrained.

mac


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Re: Hi all! Is there anyone here?

Post by hiorta on Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:35 am

Aye, imperfect folk in an imperfect world.
Guiding influences do have an impossible tough task.
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Re: Hi all! Is there anyone here?

Post by Torekka on Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:08 am

Now in mainstream Christianity it seems to be generally accepted that Jesus died to pay for humanity's sins.
In Spiritism from what I can see there are seven stages of reincarnation to I guess what would be called heaven, and it's believed by Spiritists that everyone will be saved though it could take an exceptionally long time for some.
Based on that I'd say that Christ's sacrifice would have been unnecessary in Spiritism. Personally though I think the idea of sin doesn't make much sense and I don't see how a sacrifice would have been necessary. But does that not create problems with the scripture?
What is the Spirtualist stance on the matter? By the way I hope this is more on topic.

Torekka


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Re: Hi all! Is there anyone here?

Post by hiorta on Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:35 am

What is considered the core of Christian belief offers no supporting evidence to underpin it.

There are many volumes in print detailing "What Jesus said" and on top of that there are entire libraries on "What was meant by what Jesus meant by what was said"

It all leaves us in exactly the same position as there is no tangible evidence for any of it.

I wonder what are the spiritual and evolutionary ramifications for walking such a path?
 
Arthur Findlay said in print:"Christianity is the Greatest Hoax ever perpetrated on mankind in the last 1500 years. This has yet to be refuted.
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