Letter to Psychic News

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Re: Letter to Psychic News

Post by COSC2014 on Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:28 pm

Lis wrote:
COSC2014 wrote:
Lis wrote:David says he has a problem with the word "Demanding" and suggests he only 'asked' for the camera to be removed, even though it was unplugged and therefore quite unable to impact in any way on his séance activities.

May I ask whether David would have gone ahead with the séances had the camera not been removed?

In other words, was the removal of the camera, even though it was inoperative, a condition of the séances going ahead? If so, why?


Liz, you will never know, because your question is now hypothetical! Very Happy

What utter rubbish David. The question applies to an actual event which has taken place. Either you would have continued with the séances if the camera was not removed, or you would not have. So which was it David?

Whatever you want it to be Liz!
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Re: Letter to Psychic News

Post by COSC2014 on Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:32 pm

Lis wrote:
COSC2014 wrote:
Lis wrote:It seems to me, that whenever physical séances are held, especially when they are dark séances, there will be people who have attended who will more than happy with what occurred during the event, especially when they are avid supporters of physical mediumship and the particular medium involved in the séances. But, it is also quite common to find that not all who attend such events are as happy with what took place, or who have, in their opinion, observed or experienced something during the event/s that gives rise for concern in their minds.

Often such concerns, because of the very nature of the event, held in darkness as they are, though very real to those who have been concerned, are matters that the people feel unable to talk about publicly because they cannot prove what they believe they have seen or experienced.

When, however, numerous people experience having their feet trodden on or perceive other troubling aspects of a séance, it is much harder to claim that their concerns can be dismissed or explained away as a misperception of what was actually a demonstration of the presence of spirit.

To my knowledge, never in the history of physical mediumship, and especially materialisation mediumship, has it ever before been suggested that people experiencing their feet being trodden on was a means of spirit making their presence felt.


Liz, you seem to be an authority and Expert on Physical Mediumship, please tell us why you think these things happen, Oh! how many seances have you sat in and with what mediums?

I hope you are enjoying your game playing David. As it happens I, unlike some, don't claim to be an expert on physical mediumship, but I do claim to have made an extensive study of the history of physical mediumship. As for your question regarding how many séances have I sat in and with what mediums, I will merely say that I have sat in many in my over fifty years of involvement with Spiritualism. I see no need to list all the mediums, but I will say that the last physical phenomena séance I sat in was one where Colin Fry was the 'medium'. After that, I made a conscious decision not to waste my time or energy on what the current exponents of physical mediumship offer, it being so far from the quality and substance of the great mediums of the past that I had seen.

That sounds to me like some who is obviously bias! and has an axe to grind, yes you are right Liz, its time to stop entertaining you and Jim!
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Re: Letter to Psychic News

Post by COSC2014 on Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:39 pm

Deb wrote:Sure David,

maybe it was just your manner that I interpreted as demanding so I apologise for that, perhaps explicitly requiring it be removed from the room, might be better.

I am also aware you had great supporters there including Sunny and his friends so I am sure they are happy to provide you glowing reports.  The complaints however have come from neutral parties and that in itself can say something.

As for Helen's visit she is here to teach a class and as you are probably aware and also in agreement as a tutor yourself, that the students work in class captured on camera is not of public interest or should it be.  If Helen decides to do another transfiguration demonstration we will have cameras on and if it is a public event (much like your séances) then this footage will be available.  At this stage we have not planned one for this visit.

Hi Deb,

I have tried twice now to answer your above post in a positive way and both times they have been deleted, seems Liz and Jim, are censoring what they want on their blog site, obviously they dont want people to agree!
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Re: Letter to Psychic News

Post by Deb on Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:44 pm

You know what, hopefully cameras will put all this to rest, and those working well and producing amazing events with their spirit teams and having cameras to ensure honesty will then become revered and loved the world over. That's something to look forward to!

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Re: Letter to Psychic News

Post by COSC2014 on Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:50 pm

Totally agree with you Deb 👍
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Re: Letter to Psychic News

Post by Admin on Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:58 pm

COSC2014 wrote:
Deb wrote:Sure David,

maybe it was just your manner that I interpreted as demanding so I apologise for that, perhaps explicitly requiring it be removed from the room, might be better.

I am also aware you had great supporters there including Sunny and his friends so I am sure they are happy to provide you glowing reports.  The complaints however have come from neutral parties and that in itself can say something.

As for Helen's visit she is here to teach a class and as you are probably aware and also in agreement as a tutor yourself, that the students work in class captured on camera is not of public interest or should it be.  If Helen decides to do another transfiguration demonstration we will have cameras on and if it is a public event (much like your séances) then this footage will be available.  At this stage we have not planned one for this visit.

Hi Deb,

I have tried twice now to answer your above post in a positive way and both times they have been deleted, seems Liz and Jim, are censoring what they want on their blog site, obviously they dont want people to agree!

David we have not removed any of your posts or censored them we are very interested to ensure that everything you write remains on the forum.
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Re: Letter to Psychic News

Post by Admin on Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:59 pm

COSC2014 wrote:Totally agree with you Deb 👍

Something we can all agree upon.
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Re: Letter to Psychic News

Post by Lis on Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:01 am

COSC2014 wrote:
Deb wrote:Sure David,

maybe it was just your manner that I interpreted as demanding so I apologise for that, perhaps explicitly requiring it be removed from the room, might be better.

I am also aware you had great supporters there including Sunny and his friends so I am sure they are happy to provide you glowing reports.  The complaints however have come from neutral parties and that in itself can say something.

As for Helen's visit she is here to teach a class and as you are probably aware and also in agreement as a tutor yourself, that the students work in class captured on camera is not of public interest or should it be.  If Helen decides to do another transfiguration demonstration we will have cameras on and if it is a public event (much like your séances) then this footage will be available.  At this stage we have not planned one for this visit.

Hi Deb,

I have tried twice now to answer your above post in a positive way and both times they have been deleted, seems Liz and Jim, are censoring what they want on their blog site, obviously they dont want people to agree!

David no one to my knowledge has deleted any of your posts. Certainly we have not and I would thank you to stop making false accusations about us and this forum.

Lis
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Re: Letter to Psychic News

Post by Admin on Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:05 am

Lis wrote:

David no one to my knowledge has deleted any of your posts. Certainly we have not and I would thank you to stop making false accusations about us and this forum.

Absolutely Lis we are meticulous we only remove abusive blogs and not even then if they have some relevance. In this case we said we would not and have carefully ensured that everything remains as originally posted by the poster
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Re: Letter to Psychic News

Post by COSC2014 on Thu Oct 06, 2016 3:57 am

Admin wrote:
Lis wrote:

David no one to my knowledge has deleted any of your posts. Certainly we have not and I would thank you to stop making false accusations about us and this forum.

Absolutely Lis we are meticulous we only remove abusive blogs and not even then if they have some relevance. In this case we said we would not and have carefully ensured that everything remains as originally posted by the poster

You know its really sad, well actually quiet funny watching Liz & Jim, backing each other up, do you have different computers in the same house or take it in turns? Laughing You know  you two are like two with a squeaky toy each taking a turn at having a bite, with Mac as the litte terrier waiting to have a turn! lol!

You really shouldn't take yourselves so serious, do you think that people take you seriously? affraid you really should have a look at the way you both carry on, you are so self righteous, if it wasn't so funny it would be sad, you guys really need to get out! wonder if you will delete this, actually maybe you might ban me!
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Re: Letter to Psychic News

Post by Admin on Thu Oct 06, 2016 4:09 am

COSC2014 wrote:
Admin wrote:
Lis wrote:

David no one to my knowledge has deleted any of your posts. Certainly we have not and I would thank you to stop making false accusations about us and this forum.

Absolutely Lis we are meticulous we only remove abusive blogs and not even then if they have some relevance. In this case we said we would not and have carefully ensured that everything remains as originally posted by the poster

You know its really sad, well actually quiet funny watching Liz & Jim, backing each other up, do you have different computers in the same house or take it in turns? Laughing You know  you two are like two with a squeaky toy each taking a turn at having a bite, with Mac as the litte terrier waiting to have a turn! lol!

You really shouldn't take yourselves so serious, do you think that people take you seriously? affraid you really should have a look at the way you both carry on, you are so self righteous, if it wasn't so funny it would be sad, you guys really need to get out! wonder if you will delete this, actually maybe you might ban me!

Geez David I never realised how far you had gone down until this post; now that is sad. Childish primary school insults because we want to get you to talk about issues and debate in an adult fashion. Life is not about peace by agreeing with your position. It seems you never want comments back that do not agree with or compliment you. Anything else you seem to consider, by the tone of your posts, to be denigration or bias. It does seem that the real problem is how seriously you take yourself and your prominence. If you had ignored our forum then nothing much more would have been said about or too you.

I think its time for you to go away and reflect with your guide William, or whoever they actually may be, if the number of complaints is increasing by the seance, could it be Spirit are creating this issue to persuade you to take a break. Time to reflect and develop using the Thermographic cameras; to return and astound us.
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Re: Letter to Psychic News

Post by Admin on Thu Oct 06, 2016 4:26 am

Now remember that at this stage you are not contributing constructively to this thread. Indeed your posts are becoming abusive, unpleasant and pretty much infantile. It almost looks like it is your intention to force us into a position where we must delete your posts and indeed ban you.

If you wish to remain I do hope you step back and join in, or just go away again, so we can let your name quietly slip off our forum, or partly off it while valid queries posed by many people remain unresolved. We have indicated that, unless something of interest, taht is newsworthy crops up about you. This is the same with any of the current physical mediums, hence the thread on Mannion and Muegge and some others but essentially silence on your good friend Scott.

I am sure we are all much too busy, with better things to do with our life than to keep dealing with mindless posts like your last one. I would hate to ban you or delete a post.
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Re: Letter to Psychic News

Post by COSC2014 on Thu Oct 06, 2016 4:35 am

Admin wrote:Now remember that at this stage you are not contributing constructively to this thread. Indeed your posts are becoming abusive, unpleasant and pretty much infantile. It almost looks like it is your intention to force us into a position where we must delete your posts and indeed ban you.

If you wish to remain I do hope you step back and join in, or just go away again, so we can lt your name quietly slip off our forum, or partly off it while valid queries posed by many people remain unresolved. We have indicated that, unless something of interest, taht is newsworthy crops up about you. This is the same with any of the current physical mediums, hence the thread on Mannion and Muegge and some others but essentially silence on your good friend Scott.

I am sure we are all much too busy, with better things to do with our life than to keep dealing with mindless posts like your last one. I would hate to ban you or delete a post.

Jim, I was quiet happy to let sleeping dogs lie, until I saw you trying to stir things up in your locked post about questions to me, its funny how you can comment and no one else can! if you feel my posts are "Infantile" well thats your point of view, I am just stating the obvious! If you wish to ban me, well that up too you also, but it will speak volumes about where you stand and it will show your blog site to actually be bias, because I havent insulted you, like you say, I have freedom to have an opinion and just because it doesn't fit your point of view doesn't make it wrong.
Come on Jim, this is the most activity your site has seen in ages, plus it gives you and Liz a chance to get on your soap boxes Laughing Chill out Jim, dont take yourself so serious!

In the words of Liz "This forum encourages robust discussion of views and opinions that are posted" there you go I can have an opinion right, or can I only have your opinion?
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Re: Letter to Psychic News

Post by Lis on Thu Oct 06, 2016 4:44 am

COSC2014 wrote:
Admin wrote:
Lis wrote:

David no one to my knowledge has deleted any of your posts. Certainly we have not and I would thank you to stop making false accusations about us and this forum.

Absolutely Lis we are meticulous we only remove abusive blogs and not even then if they have some relevance. In this case we said we would not and have carefully ensured that everything remains as originally posted by the poster

You know its really sad, well actually quiet funny watching Liz & Jim, backing each other up, do you have different computers in the same house or take it in turns? Laughing You know  you two are like two with a squeaky toy each taking a turn at having a bite, with Mac as the litte terrier waiting to have a turn! lol!

You really shouldn't take yourselves so serious, do you think that people take you seriously? affraid you really should have a look at the way you both carry on, you are so self righteous, if it wasn't so funny it would be sad, you guys really need to get out! wonder if you will delete this, actually maybe you might ban me!

Interesting post David. Not, unfortunately on topic, nor based on fact, but clearly you have not come onto the forum to put forward any rational or reasoned comments about the issues relating to the use of thermography in physical séances as a means of finally beginning to deal with the fraud that has been going on that needs to be stopped. Now, David, I know your view of a number of the current physical mediums, who it would appear may have been deceiving those who have so dedicatedly attended their séances, believing, falsely, that they were experiencing genuine physical phenomena and spirit interaction.

Perhaps now is the time, David, to speak up and publicly reveal your understanding and knowledge of some of what has gone on in the physical phenomena arena rather than wasting time and energy making childish remarks that contribute nothing to the discussion and sadly make you appear to be rather petulant and unpleasantly abusive. Not a perception of you that is likely to enhance your reputation.

Lis
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Re: Letter to Psychic News

Post by Admin on Thu Oct 06, 2016 4:48 am

COSC2014 wrote:
Admin wrote:Now remember that at this stage you are not contributing constructively to this thread. Indeed your posts are becoming abusive, unpleasant and pretty much infantile. It almost looks like it is your intention to force us into a position where we must delete your posts and indeed ban you.

If you wish to remain I do hope you step back and join in, or just go away again, so we can lt your name quietly slip off our forum, or partly off it while valid queries posed by many people remain unresolved. We have indicated that, unless something of interest, taht is newsworthy crops up about you. This is the same with any of the current physical mediums, hence the thread on Mannion and Muegge and some others but essentially silence on your good friend Scott.

I am sure we are all much too busy, with better things to do with our life than to keep dealing with mindless posts like your last one. I would hate to ban you or delete a post.

Jim, I was quiet happy to let sleeping dogs lie, until I saw you trying to stir things up in your locked post about questions to me, its funny how you can comment and no one else can! if you feel my posts are "Infantile" well thats your point of view, I am just stating the obvious! If you wish to ban me, well that up too you also, but it will speak volumes about where you stand and it will show your blog site to actually be bias, because I havent insulted you, like you say, I have freedom to have an opinion and just because it doesn't fit your point of view doesn't make it wrong.

David you full well knew that the locked post exists, it came into existence from the time you, VZ and Chris Hood debated it with us some years ago, with considerable unpleasantness. Indeed the locked thread was a condensation of many peoples questions for you, many of which which came from the old SCR of which you were a member.  The thread is not denigrating, biased, or insulting it is a factual piece of newsworthy interest, posing questions that have never been adequately answered, which may be inconvenient to you because it contains some awkward facts but these are obviously of public interest. By the way it is locked to prevent unpleasant comments being added and retain factual integrity.

So stop trying to obscure the issues answer them, anyway this has nothing to do with the thread you have posted on
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Re: Letter to Psychic News

Post by Lis on Thu Oct 06, 2016 4:57 am

David, you keep trying to suggest we are going to delete your posts or ban you as if we are threatening to do so - but it appears to be that you are actually trying to goad us into banning you so you can claim we are biased.

I also note you say you haven't insulted us, and have merely expressed your opinion which just because it doesn't fit our view doesn't make it wrong.

So, if I say you are behaving like a rabid dog or Don Quixote tilting at windmills, and you appear incapable of discussing any topic in a rationale adult manner, I am not and have not insulted you, nor shown bias, I have merely expressed my opinion which just because it doesn't fit your point of view doesn't make it wrong. Very Happy

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Re: Letter to Psychic News

Post by COSC2014 on Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:11 am

Lis wrote:
COSC2014 wrote:
Admin wrote:
Lis wrote:

David no one to my knowledge has deleted any of your posts. Certainly we have not and I would thank you to stop making false accusations about us and this forum.

Absolutely Lis we are meticulous we only remove abusive blogs and not even then if they have some relevance. In this case we said we would not and have carefully ensured that everything remains as originally posted by the poster

You know its really sad, well actually quiet funny watching Liz & Jim, backing each other up, do you have different computers in the same house or take it in turns? Laughing You know  you two are like two with a squeaky toy each taking a turn at having a bite, with Mac as the litte terrier waiting to have a turn! lol!

You really shouldn't take yourselves so serious, do you think that people take you seriously? affraid you really should have a look at the way you both carry on, you are so self righteous, if it wasn't so funny it would be sad, you guys really need to get out! wonder if you will delete this, actually maybe you might ban me!


Interesting post David. Not, unfortunately on topic, nor based on fact, but clearly you have not come onto the forum to put forward any rational or reasoned comments about the issues relating to the use of thermography in physical séances as a means of finally beginning to deal with the fraud that has been going on that needs to be stopped. Now, David, I know your view of a number of the current physical mediums, who it would appear may have been deceiving those who have so dedicatedly attended their séances, believing, falsely, that they were experiencing genuine physical phenomena and spirit interaction.

Perhaps now is the time, David, to speak up and publicly reveal your understanding and knowledge of some of what has gone on in the physical phenomena arena rather than wasting time and energy making childish remarks that contribute nothing to the discussion and sadly make you appear to be rather petulant and unpleasantly abusive. Not a perception of you that is likely to enhance your reputation.


Liz, you seem to Know me better than I know myself, unlike this blog site, I prefer NOT to have a public opinion on people, because you never know a persons mental state! For one moment have you all thought of the serious psychological damage you could be contributing to? After all for a person to act in such a way after the release of such damming video evidence is not behavior of normal rational individual, right? I would call that sociopathic behavior, I am sure you have watched the YouTube video, look at the body language, listen to the terminology and phraseology used, if I remember right Liz you have a degree in Psychology, you must have seen that, right?

Yes, we are going off track, maybe we should make a posting about how to treat people in a kind and spiritual way who obliviously have a fragile mental state, I have qualifications in Psychology and a friend with a Phd in Psychology who would be more than happy to contribute to the thread.
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Re: Letter to Psychic News

Post by Deb on Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:29 am

I agree David,

Treating people well, in a kind and spiritual way should also apply to students when one is the Tutor in residence. As you well know students can be in a fragile state while in training as well.

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Re: Letter to Psychic News

Post by mac on Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:44 am

Following Lis's last posting concerning the late Colin Fry might I encourage those who speak about 'physical mediums' and 'physical mediumship' who work publicly and for a fee but only work in the dark to use the words I've been using for some time now - phenomenalists and phenomenalism?  



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Re: Letter to Psychic News

Post by Lis on Thu Oct 06, 2016 6:53 am

I doubt very much David, that we are causing you any psychological damage. Laughing  I am quite sure you are mentally as tough as old boots. darts  cheers  

I said I knew your views on certain mediums David because you have personally told me of them. As for anything else you think or believe, I accept it is entirely a mystery to me. Fathoming your motivations and reasons for writing as you do is, I suspect, somewhat of a mystery to everyone who is reading this thread. Do I need to remind you that while people may not necessarily post, I can assure there are a lot of people reading the thread, and no doubt forming their own opinion about it.

As for the mental state of Gary Mannion, I would agree with you that his behaviour is not normal or rational since the release of the video evidence of his extensive fraudulent behaviour, and that might well indicate that the trauma of being exposed has caused a further deterioration in his mental state.

But then, I could suggest that his mental state prior to being exposed was of considerable concern as well. To knowingly and deliberately undertake to deceive people and to do so for significant sums of money over what was obviously for a prolonged time, might well indicate to many people that there was some significant mental health issue in play, or as you suggest, some sociopathic behaviour being demonstrated. But, of course, only a psychologist, with first-hand interaction with Gary could or should make such a diagnosis if it were appropriate. For us lesser mortals, it is merely a case of dishonest and reprehensible behaviour the motivation for which is unknown.

I doubt however that anything that has been written on this forum has impacted on him. In fact, I doubt very much that anything written about him by anyone has, except of course the dedicated statements supporting his denials and excuses.

By the way you remember incorrectly David, my academic qualifications are in Education, Social Work, Social Policy, and Law. Rather embarrassingly a lot of qualifications I must admit, and a lot of practical experience in those fields of endeavour, but I am sure you won't hold that against me. Wink

Lis
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Re: Letter to Psychic News

Post by Lis on Thu Oct 06, 2016 7:09 am

mac wrote:Following Lis's last posting concerning the late Colin Fry might I encourage those who speak about 'physical mediums' and 'physical mediumship' who work publicly and for a fee but only work in the dark to use the words I've been using for some time now - phenomenalists and phenomenalism?  



Hi Mac,

The difficulty I see in identifying as "phenomenalists" those who work publicly and for a fee but only in the dark is that we can't actually be certain there is any phenomena actually occurring in the darkness. It would be to attribute to such people a skill or talent that is rather unproven to say the least. Smile

Lis
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Re: Letter to Psychic News

Post by COSC2014 on Thu Oct 06, 2016 7:16 am

Liz, finally we agree on something 😃 yes I am tough as old boots 😉👍 as I am sure you realise I wasn't referring to myself 😃

Very impressive qualifications, but GM'S video has been carefully examined and he has been spoken to at length prior to the exposure by a personal friend of mine who does have a PhD and very impressive qualifications also and he concurred on the possibility of a fragile mental state, so regardless of what has happened maybe it's best to knowing now there maybe a problem to take that into consideration when things are publicly desimination takes place.
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Re: Letter to Psychic News

Post by Lis on Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:32 am

See, I knew I was right that you are mentally as tough as old boots, so not all that I have written is biased after all is it! Arrow  Neutral  

While I take your point that your colleague with what you describe as impressive qualifications has prior to the exposure "concurred" on the "possibility of a fragile mental state", and we should, perhaps, take that fragility into consideration, the reality is, after all, that the person who is the subject of this discussion has in reality, committed a crime against the people they have defrauded.

They have committed an act that has defiled Spiritualism and the integrity of physical mediumship and placed all other current physical mediums under the spotlight of suspicion. If that person were subject to a court of law, no doubt their mental incapacities might be argued as mitigating circumstances in determining the severity of the sentence, but it would not, given their actual conduct over a very long period of time, prevent a finding of guilt.

It is a sad reality that people do commit crimes or inappropriate behaviour as a result of their behavioural dysfunctions or personality defects, must, ultimately, face the consequences of their actions, however much we might sympathise with their mental frailty.

Lis
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Re: Letter to Psychic News

Post by mac on Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:46 am

Lis wrote:
mac wrote:Following Lis's last posting concerning the late Colin Fry might I encourage those who speak about 'physical mediums' and 'physical mediumship' who work publicly and for a fee but only work in the dark to use the words I've been using for some time now - phenomenalists and phenomenalism?  



Hi Mac,

The difficulty I see in identifying as "phenomenalists" those who work publicly and for a fee but only in the dark is that we can't actually be certain there is any phenomena actually occurring in the darkness. It would be to attribute to such people a skill or talent that is rather unproven to say the least. Smile

Fair comment, Lis and I agree with what you've said concerning whether there are any actual phenomena.  It was simply an attempt to distinguish between certain modern-day individuals, one of whom has been caught cheating and others who appear to be frauds, from acclaimed physical mediums of yesteryear who demonstrated their attributes in some form of light.  

I'd be happy to use any more suitable words.


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Re: Letter to Psychic News

Post by Lis on Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:56 am

Dark séance entertainers, perhaps, Mac?

Lis
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