A shade oversimplified

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: A shade oversimplified

Post by mac on Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:20 pm

a little over-optimistic/pessimistic?

mac


Back to top Go down

Re: A shade oversimplified

Post by Admin on Thu Sep 29, 2016 1:15 am

Why oh why would you want to come back and of course your stuff may be the other side of the world. Reincarnating as a very impoverished person, of a different nationality in a remote and hostile environment to learn new life lessons ( I love the fact one assumption of reincarnation is an homogeneous return to the same culture you left, which would be very unlikely to allow for new Spirit learnings.).
avatar
Admin
Admin


Back to top Go down

Re: A shade oversimplified

Post by mac on Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:14 am

I have yet to find in Modern Spiritualism comprehensive guidance about reincarnation although Silver Birch's guidance shapes my way of thinking.  (But I haven't heard anything from other sources that comes anywhere near persuading me!)  

When I first started looking into this 'life-after-death' stuff I was influenced by the books I read.  But little-by-little I began to refine my ideas based on what I was getting from other sources and now I feel confident I'm a little closer to the actuality of the situation.

Firstly I'm sure that for most of us, if not for all, reincarnation in whatever fashion is highly unlikely to be forced on us.  And based on the principles of self determination, personal responsibility and freewill I am persuaded that a return to this world is at least a possibility even if not a routine necessity for spiritual progression.

Although we may feel dismayed at the prospect of returning to this mad world that's a human perspective and there's at least a possibility that when we're no longer constrained by our physical systems we'll see things differently.  

Then we may see the potential benefit of a further life or lives.

mac


Back to top Go down

Re: A shade oversimplified

Post by Admin on Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:25 am

mac wrote:I have yet to find in Modern Spiritualism comprehensive guidance about reincarnation although Silver Birch's guidance shapes my way of thinking.  (But I haven't heard anything from other sources that comes anywhere near persuading me!)  

When I first started looking into this 'life-after-death' stuff I was influenced by the books I read.  But little-by-little I began to refine my ideas based on what I was getting from other sources and now I feel confident I'm a little closer to the actuality of the situation.

Firstly I'm sure that for most of us, if not for all, reincarnation in whatever fashion is highly unlikely to be forced on us.  And based on the principles of self determination, personal responsibility and freewill I am persuaded that a return to this world is at least a possibility even if not a routine necessity for spiritual progression.

Although we may feel dismayed at the prospect of returning to this mad world that's a human perspective and there's at least a possibility that when we're no longer constrained by our physical systems we'll see things differently.  

Then we may see the potential benefit of a further life or lives.

This is my view as well Mac, Adding to that I also view "Karma" as a bolted on distraction, which somehow we have incorporated from Hinduism where its effect is to empower the flaws in the caste structure. We have to deal with what we did in this world hen we enter the Spirit Realms. I remember giving a message from Spirit from a man who was absolutely appalling in this life, the recipient was OK receiving it, in a way realising that the message was a form of dealing with his past. The Spirit commented that he may have found no hell but the pain of dealing with all the hurt and pain he caused left him feeling as if he was in one. Karma implies punishment (indeed Kardec's Spirit Book is conclusive about that, implying a blind deaf dumb quadriplegic had earned this life from his past life actions which is disrespectful to the souls living through that life and astonishingly brutal from a "caring" God) which I reject.
avatar
Admin
Admin


Back to top Go down

Re: A shade oversimplified

Post by mac on Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:31 am

It was Kardec's compilation of spirit ideas that first began to shape my thinking. As my perception and understanding began to open up, like you Jim I came to reject karmic notions about physical suffering.

mac


Back to top Go down

Re: A shade oversimplified

Post by Admin on Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:37 am

At least two of us Modern Spiritualists share the same position then Mac Wink
avatar
Admin
Admin


Back to top Go down

Re: A shade oversimplified

Post by mac on Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:53 am

Admin wrote:At least two of us Modern Spiritualists share the same position then Mac Wink

It's reassuring we do, Jim, because all-too-often I feel I'm a lone Spiritualist voice 'out-there in cyber space'! Very Happy

mac


Back to top Go down

Re: A shade oversimplified

Post by hiorta on Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:02 am

"Why oh why would you want to come back..."

After a period of rest, say, and the irresistible urge to go forward again was on you, Choice might really be quite limited.
As I see it, human experience falls into 5 main racial groups with the gender option, giving us 10 choices. Other factors would undoubtedly apply, too.
What would be your choice?
avatar
hiorta


Back to top Go down

Re: A shade oversimplified

Post by Left Behind on Thu Sep 29, 2016 5:26 pm

Ah, reincarnation: a topic we will never stop arguing about. Smile

From what I've read about the spirit world, no one -- exceptions for someone with the magnanimity of a Jesus (fill in here your favorite spiritual hero) -- would ever choose to leave it, to return to life on this hell-hole.

Nor do I find it convincing that a return to incarnate life is the best or the only way to make spiritual progress: accounts from the next world reveal that we can and do progress from one spiritual realm to another, without having to make trips back here.

Reincarnation makes no sense to me. How do we make progress by coming back down after we've gone up?

Left Behind


Back to top Go down

Re: A shade oversimplified

Post by Left Behind on Thu Sep 29, 2016 5:44 pm

hiorta wrote:"Why oh why would you want to come back..."

After a period of rest, say, and the irresistible urge to go forward again was on you, Choice might really be quite limited.
As I see it, human experience falls into 5 main racial groups with the gender option, giving us 10 choices. Other factors would undoubtedly apply, too.
What would be your choice?


Well, there's an unlimited combination of possibilities, when to race and gender you add such factors as social status, economic standing, occupation, climate, health / physique / physical prowess, etc.

The problem is that every one of these factors places us one place or another in a body that will soon begin to degrade, in a world that leaves a lot to be desired, and in a life that isn't going to last very long. So what's the real attraction? Rolling Eyes

Left Behind


Back to top Go down

Re: A shade oversimplified

Post by Admin on Fri Sep 30, 2016 1:13 am

Left Behind wrote:
hiorta wrote:"Why oh why would you want to come back..."

After a period of rest, say, and the irresistible urge to go forward again was on you, Choice might really be quite limited.
As I see it, human experience falls into 5 main racial groups with the gender option, giving us 10 choices. Other factors would undoubtedly apply, too.
What would be your choice?


Well, there's an unlimited combination of possibilities, when to race and gender you add such factors as social status, economic standing, occupation, climate, health / physique / physical prowess, etc.

The problem is that every one of these factors places us one place or another in a body that will soon begin to degrade, in a world that leaves a lot to be desired, and in a life that isn't going to last very long. So what's the real attraction? Rolling Eyes

Stainton Moses guide Imperator said quite clearly in response to a question from SM: Return to earth is not the only method of progression.?
No: nor even the usual one. We have with us many schools of instruction: and we do not employ a
second time one that has proved a failure.


In many ways this is compatible with the idea of choice in reincarnation ( a thing strongly indicated by Silver Birch) but it poses the idea of other planets or spheres of life beyond our current understanding.

God help us Hiorta for all your Scottish Independence you could pass into Spirit and be brought back as a Sassenach to punish you.
avatar
Admin
Admin


Back to top Go down

Re: A shade oversimplified

Post by mac on Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:08 am

bad lad, Jim! Very Happy Very Happy Laughing Laughing

mac


Back to top Go down

Re: A shade oversimplified

Post by hiorta on Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:37 am

Aye indeed Jim. I have promised to be good though. Very Happy Very Happy https://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_biggrin.pnghttps://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_biggrin.png

BTW, English Independence is a "good thing" but Scottish, Welsh, Irish is somehow 'Bad?"
avatar
hiorta


Back to top Go down

Re: A shade oversimplified

Post by Left Behind on Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:59 pm

Admin wrote:

Stainton Moses guide Imperator said quite clearly in response to a question from SM: Return to earth is not the only method of progression.?
No: nor even the usual one. We have with us many schools of instruction: and we do not employ a
second time one that has proved a failure.



But is it always a case of proving a failure? A failure to make spiritual progress?

I like to think that many if not most people on our planet are making spiritual progress. But they're certainly not going to make all the progress they'd need to in their present life. The real question is whether they can make continued spiritual progress while in the spiritual spheres, and the answer from spirit accounts seems to be, yes they can.

If that's correct, then there's certainly no reason why reincarnation is necessary. Or at least, spiritual progress isn't the reason.

Left Behind


Back to top Go down

Re: A shade oversimplified

Post by mac on Sat Oct 01, 2016 7:01 am

Left Behind wrote:
Admin wrote:

Stainton Moses guide Imperator said quite clearly in response to a question from SM: Return to earth is not the only method of progression.?
No: nor even the usual one. We have with us many schools of instruction: and we do not employ a
second time one that has proved a failure.



But is it always a case of proving a failure? A failure to make spiritual progress?

I like to think that many if not most people on our planet are making spiritual progress. But they're certainly not going to make all the progress they'd need to in their present life. The real question is whether they can make continued spiritual progress while in the spiritual spheres, and the answer from spirit accounts seems to be, yes they can.

If that's correct, then there's certainly no reason why reincarnation is necessary. Or at least, spiritual progress isn't the reason.

It very much depends on the source one quotes, I suppose, but based on Stainton Moses and his communicator, wouldn't Imperator's opening words - "No: nor even the usual one." -  have even more significance than whether a life was "a failure", something we're unable to gauge without knowing its objective?

It also depends on how much we heed what even spiritually-elevated communicators say.  Imperator declares that a return to earth 's not "....even the usual one" which kinda implies that another one, or other ones, are the usual means for making spiritual progress.

He's just one guy so the next question might then be "How many other guides/teachers have indicated a similar thing?.

mac


Back to top Go down

Re: A shade oversimplified

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum