Gary mannion videos

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Re: Gary mannion videos

Post by Left Behind on Thu Jun 30, 2016 4:28 am

Magicians are the bane of Spiritualists, in that they start with and stay with the premise that "it (mediumship) HAS to be fakery": but they can also be our greatest allies in exposing the fakery that unfortunately does occur in Spiritualism.

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Re: Gary mannion videos

Post by Admin on Thu Jun 30, 2016 4:44 am

Unfortunately too many Magicians, Parapsychologists, Psychical Researchers & Anomalistic Psychologists (take your pick out of which of the last 3 terms is current ) take the view it is all fraud with the closed mind that accompanies it; Chris French from Goldsmiths University is the classic. In the end it is Spiritualists, or those within the movement, who tend to catch most fraud. However, the prevalence of fraud, particularly in Dark Seances, has, historically (and provably) been far to high, which gives rise to this position amongst those groups. Detailed research in this area finds that, as you dig further into the records, so called champions of the movement fall over. Far too many still believe in, for example, the Davenports. I have a recent, detailed, time line of the Bangs Sisters, including much not recorded in the few texts written by supporters of theirs, true heroines of Spiritualism so you would expect, that tends to blow their record to pieces.

Still that's for other places, what has come out in PN is truly scary but, if some of the information we have received, which cannot be used because we cannot attribute the source even if that appears extremely reliable, Gary is only one of a reasonably large group amongst the new †PM's (well we know the issues around †Kai, Akesohn , Caylor from posts on this forum). I do hope that people who have booked Gary cancel, but I must wonder how much credence can be placed in his trance healing when this is his modus operandi in sťances.
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Re: Gary mannion videos

Post by Lis on Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:44 am

It is evident from what is written in PN that Mannion must have admitted to Banyan Retreat that he had cheated, and allegedly agreed not to do further physical sťances, a promise he reneged on when back in Australia. Indeed, to have subsequently written to Nic to try to buy the video ("name your price"!!), also highlights that this young man is entirely unscrupulous. Thankfully those at Banyan Retreat were not prepared to let Mannion get away with it and published the video clips on the internet.

The man who acted as his circle leader when in Australia for several years is also interviewed in the PN article and reveals he too had serious doubts about Mannion's mediumship and eventually discovered Mannion was out of his chair and cable ties and walking around the room. Disallusioned he ceased involvement.

But, he didn't make what he knew known, and this is what I don't understand. He finds out Mannion was cheating, but, even knowing this, they don't do anything to prevent people from being hoodwinked and cheated out of their money. I know it could have been said it's their word against Mannion's, but surely, when a person has discovered fraud they should tell someone, and try to mitigate the damage being done.

I am glad that Roy Stemman, as editor of PN, has come out so strongly on this matter, and look forward to further coverage in the next month's issue.

It is my honest opinion that the other aspects of Gary Mannion's alleged mediumship should also now be looked at very closely, and treated with reservation if not suspicion. Anyone who will so blatently cheat in one area may well be likely to operate the same way in their other activities.

Lis
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Re: Gary mannion videos

Post by mac on Thu Jun 30, 2016 7:19 am

Left Behind wrote:Hello, Mac! Smile I've not seen the July issue of PN yet: my airmailed copy should be arriving in a day or so. One thing that certainly can be said about PN, in general: they pull no punches where fraudulent mediums and psychics are concerned. If anything, they delight in reporting on the fakers and con artists.

This Mannion was supposedly tied down during his performance? Not tied down very well, apparently: or does he have the escape skills of Houdini?

Did you see the videos, J?

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Re: Gary mannion videos

Post by mac on Thu Jun 30, 2016 7:30 am

There's also a discussion forum tab on the videos site. Comments from a couple of the attendees at the show express their dismay at what happened to them. †

They make interesting reading but should anyone visit please note that there's someone posting there using the name I customarily use - the 'mac' there isn't me! †(It shouldn't be too difficult to work out who the writer actually is.)

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Re: Gary mannion videos

Post by Left Behind on Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:04 pm

Left Behind wrote:Magicians are the bane of Spiritualists, in that they start with and stay with the premise that "it (mediumship) HAS to be fakery": but they can also be our greatest allies in exposing the fakery that unfortunately does occur in Spiritualism.

I meant this in the sense that "fakery" is the magicians' trade. They can often spot a conman medium quicker than we can, because they're more familiar with the tricks, and their mindset is to be on the lookout for them.

I agree that in practice, sincere Spiritualists, more so than professional magicians, are more likely to catch a fraudulent in the act, simply because they're more likely to be at his sťance or demonstration.

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Re: Gary mannion videos

Post by Left Behind on Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:20 pm

mac wrote:
Left Behind wrote:Hello, Mac! Smile I've not seen the July issue of PN yet: my airmailed copy should be arriving in a day or so. One thing that certainly can be said about PN, in general: they pull no punches where fraudulent mediums and psychics are concerned. If anything, they delight in reporting on the fakers and con artists.

This Mannion was supposedly tied down during his performance? Not tied down very well, apparently: or does he have the escape skills of Houdini?

Did you see the videos, J?

Yes, I just-now watched them.

Very damning. Evil or Very Mad But I wonder how he was able to see, to move about the room and play tricks on the sitters, if they were unable to see him doing it?

Also: how did this candid-camera happen to be there to catch him in the act? Was the host suspicious?

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Re: Gary mannion videos

Post by Left Behind on Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:22 pm

mac wrote:There's also a discussion forum tab on the videos site. Comments from a couple of the attendees at the show express their dismay at what happened to them. †

They make interesting reading but should anyone visit please note that there's someone posting there using the name I customarily use - the 'mac' there isn't me! †(It shouldn't be too difficult to work out who the writer actually is.)

Ah, the price of fame! Very Happy

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Re: Gary mannion videos

Post by Admin on Fri Jul 01, 2016 12:42 am

Left Behind wrote:
mac wrote:
Left Behind wrote:Hello, Mac! Smile I've not seen the July issue of PN yet: my airmailed copy should be arriving in a day or so. One thing that certainly can be said about PN, in general: they pull no punches where fraudulent mediums and psychics are concerned. If anything, they delight in reporting on the fakers and con artists.

This Mannion was supposedly tied down during his performance? Not tied down very well, apparently: or does he have the escape skills of Houdini?

Did you see the videos, J?

Yes, I just-now watched them.

Very damning. Evil or Very Mad But I wonder how he was able to see, to move about the room and play tricks on the sitters, if they were unable to see him doing it?

Also: how did this candid-camera happen to be there to catch him in the act? Was the host suspicious?

Very easy to move around in the dark if you practice in the room (ask any magician), especially if you are involved then in placing people in their seats, I commented about this earlier on Jim. The combination of cable ties and the darkness; apparently making it impossible for the medium to move about even if they got out of their seat, are the things that makes so many believe ...sadly.

Yes not only was the centre suspicious but a large chunk of previous attendees of his sťances were being openly critical, the centre has the camera's permanently fixed as I understand it. I suppose the big issue is why would they not do this for all their dark sťance mediums, not just those who have had questions raised about them.

Moot point about filming without the mediums knowledge, we know that, if asked, all mediums refuse filming (goes back a way, Simon Forsyth thought he had Stewart Alexanders agreement, to be refused when the cameras were ready, Scott Milligan and David Thompson openly refuse filming, etc., etc.,). Unfortunately sceptics may look at Mannion's outing then make an easy and hard to refute assumption that their refusal is for obvious reasons.

That's why there should be no public dark sťances for money unless there are full controls and thermo graphic filming (indeed raising the light sufficiently for a residual light camera would still render the room effectively blacked out). What about the chair on electronic scales (we could also then register the medium's weight loss if ectoplasm appeared), together with the type of recording system used by athletes, non intrusive measuring all of the mediums vital signs. Hell film, weighing, measures of the life force, hopefully dim red light, we may not need cable ties.

Jim
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Re: Gary mannion videos

Post by obiwan on Tue Aug 09, 2016 7:54 pm

Any more news?

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Re: Gary mannion videos

Post by mac on Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:25 pm

I've been keeping an eye open, obi, but haven't seen anything different from what we already knew. Just like the brouhaha after the protocol was introduced in The Arthur Findlay College, I expect things will quieten down and if not exactly get forgotten they'll slip quietly into the past.

Similar to a couple of other phenomenalist / physical mediums' antics.... Laughing

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Re: Gary mannion videos

Post by obiwan on Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:38 pm

mac wrote:I've been keeping an eye open, obi, but haven't seen anything different from what we already knew. †Just like the brouhaha after the protocol was introduced in The Arthur Findlay College, I expect things will quieten down and if not exactly get forgotten they'll slip quietly into the past. †

Similar to a couple of other phenomenalist / physical mediums' antics.... †Laughing
I'm sure you're right my friend lol

obiwan


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Re: Gary mannion videos

Post by Left Behind on Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:18 am

This Mannion fiasco -- or anything else that's happened or will happen -- won't be the be-all and end-all, make it or break it event for PM, mediumship, or Spiritualism in general.

It's just that everything that happens adds its little bit of good or little bit of bad to the equation. Mannion's actions added a little bit of bad. Sad Wink

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Re: Gary mannion videos

Post by obiwan on Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:58 am

Left Behind wrote:This Mannion fiasco -- or anything else that's happened or will happen -- won't be the be-all and end-all, make it or break it event for PM, mediumship, or Spiritualism in general.

It's just that everything that happens adds its little bit of good or little bit of bad to the equation. Mannion's actions added a little bit of bad. Sad Wink

Yes I'm sure you're right LB. I think what it does do is reduce the general level of trust in the world. As does any fraud or theft. It can make us less trusting, less willing to help others, to offer support. It can make us cynical. Particularly in situations like this where for many so much hangs on the truthfulness of their experience. To have their evidence of the survival of loved ones reduced to ashes in this way is a terrible thing.

For those of us who have little or no personal evidence, it is perhaps a step backwards.


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Re: Gary mannion videos

Post by Admin on Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:14 am

The only thing that I know is Mannion is being supported by the Australian's at the Wallacia Centre regardless of the evidence. As a result he is still working and advertising events there on his Facebook page. Nothing ever changes in this regard a whole new group will grow to accept his work regardless. Nothing seems to change, its why the current batch of Physical Mediums need to be forgotten about. None will agree to work within the guidelines proposed by the AFC which should be regarded as a bare minimum.

All of those currently with direct strikes against them, Muegge, Caylor, Mannion, MontCabirol, Akesohn (not a complete list I feel) are still happily working away and those others with queries against them are totally unaffected.

One does wonder what Australian immigration may think of Mannion's chosen way to make a living.
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Re: Gary mannion videos

Post by Left Behind on Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:19 am

obiwan wrote:
Left Behind wrote:This Mannion fiasco -- or anything else that's happened or will happen -- won't be the be-all and end-all, make it or break it event for PM, mediumship, or Spiritualism in general.

It's just that everything that happens adds its little bit of good or little bit of bad to the equation. Mannion's actions added a little bit of bad. Sad Wink

Yes I'm sure you're right LB. I think what it does do is reduce the general level of trust in the world. As does any fraud or theft. It can make us less trusting, less willing to help others, to offer support. It can make us cynical. Particularly in situations like this where for many so much hangs on the truthfulness of their experience. To have their evidence of the survival of loved ones reduced to ashes in this way is a terrible thing.

For those of us who have little or no personal evidence, it is perhaps a step backwards.


And also, lack of trust is an inhibiting factor at sťances.

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Re: Gary mannion videos

Post by obiwan on Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:44 am

Left Behind wrote:
obiwan wrote:
Left Behind wrote:This Mannion fiasco -- or anything else that's happened or will happen -- won't be the be-all and end-all, make it or break it event for PM, mediumship, or Spiritualism in general.

It's just that everything that happens adds its little bit of good or little bit of bad to the equation. Mannion's actions added a little bit of bad. Sad Wink

Yes I'm sure you're right LB. I think what it does do is reduce the general level of trust in the world. As does any fraud or theft. It can make us less trusting, less willing to help others, to offer support. It can make us cynical. Particularly in situations like this where for many so much hangs on the truthfulness of their experience. To have their evidence of the survival of loved ones reduced to ashes in this way is a terrible thing.

For those of us who have little or no personal evidence, it is perhaps a step backwards.


And also, lack of trust is an inhibiting factor at sťances.

True.

obiwan


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Re: Gary mannion videos

Post by Admin on Wed Aug 10, 2016 2:35 am

I believe, LB that if you lack trust you do not attend and pay the rather exorbitant dollars involved. In history the mediums had no idea who was attending and many who came were very skeptical. There were some remarkable results as well as some remarkable frauds, especially the latter in dark seances.

Studies of history can create a fair degree of disillusion.
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Re: Gary mannion videos

Post by obiwan on Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:02 am

Admin wrote:I believe, LB that if you lack trust you do not attend and pay the rather exorbitant dollars involved. In history the mediums had no idea who was attending and many who came were very skeptical. There were some remarkable results as well as some remarkable frauds, especially the latter in dark seances.

Studies of history can create a fair degree of disillusion.

Still, there need only be one white crow Smile

obiwan


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Re: Gary mannion videos

Post by Left Behind on Mon Sep 05, 2016 2:24 am

Psychic News is certainly reporting on l'affaire Mannipn, aren't they? The last 3 or so issues have had articles about this video.

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Re: Gary mannion videos

Post by Admin on Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:26 am

Lets keep this up there to.
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