Apports (activation stones)

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Re: Apports (activation stones)

Post by dont-like-frauds on Sun Oct 18, 2015 4:14 pm

Naturally is Dynamo not a "mixed medium". Wink  

What iīve wanted to show:

Some cheaters start as a "Medium". Then after the first debunking stories, they are considered as "mixed mediums", but in the end they are even not good magicians. These alleged apport stories and alleged other "phenomenas" are nothing against the real professional tricksers, which are really worth their entrance fees.

Never trust a "mixed medium"... Smile
"Mixed mediums" only cause "mixed emotions"!

On the other side, there are actually some people start to believe, that Dynamo must be supernatural, because they canīt explain his tricks as one can see in the comments below his videos And this lack of knowledge how to cheat is again the reason for many people to consider cheaters like KM and others as "mixed mediums". affraid

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Re: Apports (activation stones)

Post by mac on Sun Oct 18, 2015 7:50 pm

It's an old human failing that what can't be understood must necessarily be 'magic'. Tricksters know this and take advantage of their knowledge.

I've reached the age where I no longer care - let 'em believe what they will. Laughing

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Re: Apports (activation stones)

Post by Neilos on Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:50 am

I think the so called tricksters know that a lot of people want to believe and are inclined to convince themselves that what they witness is real. Easy to deceive people who want to believe and will accept very poor evidence as proof.

Neilos


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Re: Apports (activation stones)

Post by mac on Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:03 am

Neilos wrote:I think the so called tricksters know that a lot of people want to believe and are inclined to convince themselves that what they witness is real. Easy to deceive people who want to believe  and will accept very poor evidence as proof.

agreed

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Re: Apports (activation stones)

Post by Admin on Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:28 pm

Neilos wrote:I think the so called tricksters know that a lot of people want to believe and are inclined to convince themselves that what they witness is real. Easy to deceive people who want to believe  and will accept very poor evidence as proof.

Very true Neilos
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Re: Apports (activation stones)

Post by dont-like-frauds on Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:42 am

Admin wrote:I am with you on that Mac, but Dynamo is fantastic.

As to mixed mediumship, a term first coined for Eusapia Palladino who would always cheat as a first option, are we to accept this as a valid position or should we ignore those who do it because you cannot have faith in them.

As a mental medium who stands up on platform intending to give proof of survival by connecting to Spirit would it be OK if I breached trust and gave messages where I had the answers written down beforehand, or to friends whose history I knew without seeking something new I did not know. In one blow I destroy the sanctity of mediumship as a truth, designed to bring comfort and healing to those on this physical earth. OK Kai is not giving information from loved one's but the ethics are the same, he is pretending it is all the work of Spirit.

Sadly in the past there were mental mediums who did have something in the back pocket to cover for bad days, indeed this was how people like William Roy worked at all times. In fact look at Psypioneer and the early suspicions about Gordon Higginson which meant Barbanell published nothing about him in Psychic News for 18 years until they became friends. I have personally seen messages given to people who were friends, although the audience did not know it, with some dramatic "evidence" that the medium was well aware of. I have also seen purely Psychic messages, as a pick up, without letting the recipient know the message came from them not Spirit.

No I am definitely in the camp that rejects mixed mediumship, especially when the individual claims its all Spirit, but in reality on all occasions (I will accept a mental medium who tells the message recipient when the message is not from Spirit but pick up from them, that is honesty, especially when their work proves they have a link to the Spirit World). It is also a certain way to destroy the public image of mediumship and because mediums are the cornerstone of modern Spiritualism the movement itself.

Ok this places real problems for me working in the same church regularly. I am almost better friends with the Spirit relatives than the individuals receiving the message so I quiz them for something new as evidence before allowing them to give a message. My verbal debates with the Spirit probably look odd but cause some laughs.

What is your opinion on the fox sisters, if i may ask, Jim? Do you consider them as genuine?

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Re: Apports (activation stones)

Post by Neilos on Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:25 pm

IDLF's interesting question Smile. There are mixed views in relation to the Fox sisters and I believe there was communication with spirit, whether everything that occurred was genuine is hard to answer:). Speaking from personal experience I have witnessed genuine phenomena and evidential mediumship in various circles I have sat in and my own personal experiences. I recently had my first apport which would be meaningless to anyone else but gold to me. It was a mundane household item that materialised inside a glass jar and nothing fancy like a crystal or glass stone. I know 100% that this item was apported I cannot prove it to anyone else but I know, no self deception through a desperate need but based on my observations and what occurred.


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Re: Apports (activation stones)

Post by dont-like-frauds on Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:06 pm

Neilos wrote:IDLF's interesting question Smile. There are mixed views in relation to the Fox sisters and I believe there was communication with spirit, whether everything that occurred was genuine is hard to answer:). Speaking from personal experience I have witnessed genuine phenomena and evidential mediumship in various circles I have sat in and my own personal experiences. I recently had my first apport which would be meaningless to anyone else but gold to me. It was a mundane household item that materialised inside a glass jar and nothing fancy like a crystal or glass stone. I know 100% that this item was apported I cannot prove it to anyone else but I know, no self deception through a desperate need but based on my observations and what occurred.


Thatīs really great! No-one can take you or anyone else the own experiences! I just remember when reading your experience having sit in a japanese restaurant in Bangkok long before i had an idea about mediumship etc. I was looking at a dish on the empty neighbourtable, when the dish suddenly has moved across the table. I īve watched the dish, have turned it around (no cockroach  Very Happy ) a neighbour watched the dish, too, we have looked at each other and had no idea what was going on.
Whatever it was - there is just more on earth than what is written in scientific books...how many people are you sitting with? Three all together?

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Re: Apports (activation stones)

Post by Neilos on Fri Oct 23, 2015 8:51 am

Great experience IDLF's Smile. I sit with two others plus I am involved with a development circle and a healing group. We set our intent very highly and sit in a variety of light conditions. It is early days yet but we are starting to get direct voice in relation to another sitter which is promising.

Neilos


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Re: Apports (activation stones)

Post by dont-like-frauds on Fri Oct 23, 2015 9:13 am

Iīve "seen" you sitting with two other people and i have a good feeling with it, thatīs why iīve asked. So enjoy your time together! Lovely energy! Smile

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Re: Apports (activation stones)

Post by Neilos on Fri Oct 23, 2015 10:27 am

Thanks IDLF's, we set our intent very high and are not interested in anything but good evidence.

Neilos


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Re: Apports (activation stones)

Post by Admin on Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:08 am

dont-like-frauds wrote:

What is your opinion on the fox sisters, if i may ask, Jim? Do you consider them as genuine?

Sorry IDLF I was so busy I really let this go to the keeper. Its a fascinating question, however, it is important to realise that a major part of the communication in Hydesville took place after the two girls and the mother had left the building. The EE Lewis record and the witness statements are very clear about that so whatever one may conclude about the girls the communication carried on without them.

I have researched and tracked this whole area in considerable depth. It is clear that once they reached Rochester the rapping continued . The core group around them were Isaac & Amy Post, George Willets (Amy's brother) and Eliab Capron from Auburn. In 1849 Kate Fox, the youngest, was moved to Auburn to live with the Capron's to remove her from the rapping that was going on. There is sufficient evidence that the rapping then started in Auburn.

Through the letters in the Post Family archives in Rochester it becomes clear that everyone believed in the communications. It is also clear that many visitors also accepted this. There is a refreshing genuineness to the letters written between them all.

Just prior to the demonstration at Rochester George Willets and Eliab Capron released the full name of the pedlar, which was received in communications at Rochester, not at the original event at Hydesville when only the initials were received CR. George Willets wrote a letter to one paper in response to a request, in this he confirmed they had ensured publicity was given to the actual name Charles Rasme (not Rosna) in the hope that a relative would reply, he also stated categorically that the rappings only came when either Kate or Maggie was present, there was no noise when the elder sister Anne Leah was present, as she was not a medium.

The Rochester demonstration in November 1849 is well documented, however the reporting is distorted because of the highly effective PR campaign Capron and Willets ran. I have now dredged up enough newspaper reports to confirm that the various investigating committees did not establish any fraud. They were very successful in New York in the middle of 1850 staying at Barnums Hotel (not as wrongly recorded in some places at Barnums Circus). There can be no doubt that their work won over Horace Greeley the editor of the New York Tribune who remained sympathetic, a believer in Spiritualism until 1873 and the acts of Victoria Woodhull. Their work was pretty widely accepted. By 1853 Maggie had stopped mediumship, influenced by her involvement and subsequent marriage to Elisha Kent Kane the explorer. Kate started to work as a medium in 1854, at the Society for The Diffusion of Spiritual Knowledge, on the Broadway New York, publishers of an early Spiritualist Newspaper The Christian Spiritualist. By 1860 they were both alcoholics needing treatment. Maggie was unrecognised by Elisha's family who denied the marriage. They managed to send Kate off to the UK to recover, where she married and had the best years of her life, it is also clear that this was the strongest period for her mediumship. The research conducted into her work over these years is supportive of this.

Given the sister dynamics with Kate and Maggies mutual dislike of their eldest sister, who had caused them personal difficulties. Indeed Anne Leah had attempted to become a significant player in the Hydesville events and of a similar age to them, Anne Leah was 20 years older and only got to Hydesville one month after the rappings. Problematically many people use her largely fictitious 1880's book, The Missing Link in Spiritualism, as the basis for the correct history of Hydesville (in this she built on some of the myths that turn up in Robert Dale Owens book Footfalls which were also Anne Leahs creation which is one of the other sources of wrong history like the appearance of a mythical Mr. Splitfoot), I think the confessions, in view of this antagonism, their shortage of money and the confessions were paid for, can be entirely discounted.

Personally I believe they were genuine in their work but we must remember what passed for mediumship then is very different to what we see now. In terms of the commencement of Modern Spiritualism the issue becomes academic because the 1848 communications happily continued for several days without their presence.
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