The death of physical mediumship - PN

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Re: The death of physical mediumship - PN

Post by Admin on Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:32 am

No medical record, it would have also appeared in the trial where the transcript carries no reference, given she was in prison there would have been a police surgeons report. I am sure it would have been used as a point in the defence ( there is one very long book covering the trial in great detail and written by a lawyer). Certainly none are noted over the Peggy issue, probably unsurprisingly given it occurred in conjunction with Harry Price (the infamous researcher who was not averse to cheating) report upon her. !932 was a lesser year for Helen Duncan. The time when the recoil was most reported was in 1956. The problem on ectoplasmic recoil is that we really need some genuine medical evidence not just séance room reports. Some of the injuries reported are so bad it is a wonder we do not have evidence from an A & E department.

However, I know that if a medium is jerked out of full trance they will suffer very badly, that danger is shared by both full trance and physical mediums who go into deep trance. It can take a day to fully recover from that impact with headaches and the medium feeling not quite there and decidedly ill. Clearly there is a need to ensure that both full trance and physical mediums should be protected in some way. Should they stand up while in trance and be grabbed the result will be very painful to the medium.

The difficulty we have is that, in the past, some fraudulent medium's have used the claim they are hurt in closing a séance early and as a means of avoiding discovery. Indeed, in the past, it seems a rare occurrence nearly unmentioned in the early days of daylight materialisation and photography using flares.

So once again we enter a realm where the reality is not as it seems. At the very least I have never heard of an actual death from it and the 1956 claim for Helen is the only one that I know of. I stand to be corrected of course.

Now there was Madam D'Esperance, one of the early mediums who did state she had been badly hurt. Unfortunately the facts of her life are slowly being re written. So at best she will be a medium who re wrote her own story and at worst there may be more to find which casts doubt on her true abilities and the events of her life. I am unsure how much trust can be placed in her claims of injury when it may have been in a séance which was less than genuine.

Yet the danger of injury, even death, is now part of the mantra of all Physical Mediums. Maybe another good reason to turn the light up.
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Re: The death of physical mediumship - PN

Post by mac on Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:38 am

fascinating and revealing!

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Re: The death of physical mediumship - PN

Post by Admin on Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:41 am

Marc has now started digitising the Liberator ready to put up on IAPSOP here is a link to the outcome a story of deep rooted fraud http://ehbritten.blogspot.com.au/
Although, as ever with Marc, he will now dig much deeper.

Its worth reading because there was something similar occurring in the UK and Boston at the same time. It recurred routinely and of course is still around, maybe in not quite such an organised way, unless Camp Chesterfield has not abandoned its practices. Even Lily Dale got pulled in around 1900.
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Re: The death of physical mediumship - PN

Post by mac on Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:11 am

What an amazing volume of historical information!

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Re: The death of physical mediumship - PN

Post by obiwan on Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:39 pm

It would be difficult to attribute a burn or injury to a particular cause - certainly to ectoplasmic retraction, though a doctor might note it, they don't always record things like that. I guess it depends when the matter was raised with the lawyer, if it's too long after the event it isn't of much value.

I wouldn't like to argue Barbanell was wrong, he was around at the time after all and was firmly of the opinion she had been injured in that way. Who knows?

As Zerdini observed, materialisation without sufficient light isn't materialisation lol

I do like the idea of having a minimum set of criteria for materialisation but I would be dubious about the need for it when the phenomena is the independent direct voice. If people claim to be materialisation mediums but in the dark, maybe they should do something else or keep schtumm until they can demonstrate it?

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Re: The death of physical mediumship - PN

Post by mac on Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:17 pm

Perhaps more accurately it should be said that materialisation without light isn't observed materialisation - it might be happening but when you can't see it you can't be sure.  

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Re: The death of physical mediumship - PN

Post by obiwan on Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:33 pm

mac wrote:Perhaps more accurately it should be said that materialisation without light isn't observed materialisation - it might be happening but when you can't see it you can't be sure.  

Well yes but what's the point?

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Re: The death of physical mediumship - PN

Post by mac on Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:06 pm

obiwan wrote:
mac wrote:Perhaps more accurately it should be said that materialisation without light isn't observed materialisation - it might be happening but when you can't see it you can't be sure.  

Well yes but what's the point?

That's a good question but it doesn't negate the possibility that it might be happening. I suppose a group might argue that they were working towards materialisation in the light and dark materialisation was a step along that path.

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Re: The death of physical mediumship - PN

Post by obiwan on Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:18 pm

mac wrote:
obiwan wrote:
mac wrote:Perhaps more accurately it should be said that materialisation without light isn't observed materialisation - it might be happening but when you can't see it you can't be sure.  

Well yes but what's the point?

That's a good question but it doesn't negate the possibility that it might be happening.  I suppose a group might argue that they were working towards materialisation in the light and dark materialisation was a step along that path.

That's the problem with no light isn't it - might've, might not have, I don't think that takes us anywhere tbh. Working towards is a valid explanation but if there is nothing to see then perhaps they should keep quiet until there is?

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Re: The death of physical mediumship - PN

Post by mac on Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:44 pm

obiwan wrote:
mac wrote:
obiwan wrote:
mac wrote:Perhaps more accurately it should be said that materialisation without light isn't observed materialisation - it might be happening but when you can't see it you can't be sure.  

Well yes but what's the point?

That's a good question but it doesn't negate the possibility that it might be happening.  I suppose a group might argue that they were working towards materialisation in the light and dark materialisation was a step along that path.

That's the problem with no light isn't it - might've, might not have, I don't think that takes us anywhere tbh. Working towards is a valid explanation but if there is nothing to see then perhaps they should keep quiet until there is?

Can't disagree with the last part of the last sentence...  

Maybe it's me, maybe it's down to my age, maybe it's the way I've become over the last three decades that I - like you - see things the way we do.  Perhaps we're just out-of-step with the narcissistic, 'look-at-me' tweeting, Facebook, modern-day world, one in which talking up (and about) every tiny thing is the norm, no matter how banal and mundane?  

But I do try to be fair and not tar everyone with the same brush.  There may be groups out there who are genuine and sincere in their endeavours.  Ever an optimist I think there probably are and for them I will continue to try.  

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Re: The death of physical mediumship - PN

Post by Admin on Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:12 am

Anyone following this thread should look at a 1928 séance at the MSA, which became the SAGB. This is an absolute fit for the SNU's protocols http://www.spiritualismlink.com/t2245-mrs-henderson-ectoplasmic-phenomena-in-a-clear-red-light#19375

Yet again we add the caption "No Medium Was Hurt In The Filming"


How many times do we need to repeat this I understand an interesting posting about Palladino being filmed in the glare of Magnesium Flares has appeared on PM4U I await details although it is from a publication I know, as I have the full run from IAPSOP saved, and the medium did not know when the pictures would be taken at all times. May I say again the caption "No Medium Was Hurt In The Filming"


I really believe it raises serious questions about the current crop of people who claim to be "physical mediums" maybe it is this discrepancy Psychic News could follow up.

Oh by the way we can keep at this for along time, publishing more and more that the modern physical mediums appear not to know, with pictures. Sadly in passing we will destroy the reputation of a few of the favoured one's while enhancing that of others possibly. The list is rather large the possible genuine one's may fit on the fingers of two hands (or less). Interestingly in doing so history will shine a clear light on current practices, hopefully putting anyone starting as a physical medium on the right track undistorted by recent practices.

Jim
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Re: The death of physical mediumship - PN

Post by Admin on Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:30 am

obiwan wrote:
I wouldn't like to argue Barbanell was wrong, he was around at the time after all and was firmly of the opinion she had been injured in that way. Who knows?


Hi Obi I would not think that Barbanell would like to think he was infallible.

There is smoke rising around Camp Silver Belle and Ethel Post Parrish, from the information received from a USA medium, which I am still trying to get to the bottom of, revelations from a well placed camp worker, he was a great supporter of her. Indeed much of the acceptance of Ethel is related to Barbanell's visit.

Yet he so thought Gordon Higginson was a fraud, as a youngster, that he banned any reference to him from Psychic News for many many years when he was editor. yes they ended up as friends but in the early days he thought that the issues, which Psypioneer has covered ( http://www.spiritualismlink.com/t860-gordon-higginson-another-side? ), were suggestive of a William Roy style black book, allowing him to give the names and addresses he was capable of, especially to those of the Church Committees.

I saw Gordon give Lis a message, that he could not have known, so I am aware he was a great medium, but did he have something in his back pocket, for the days the link failed, or did he do as Alfred Best and say to the gathered crowd that the owners had agreed the hall would be available tomorrow because he could not work today he had no link to Spirit.

Interesting thoughts Obi, I have not studied, in detail, Barbanell's approach to testing physical mediums, however what I have seen implies a closer fit to Zammit's "empirical style" when compared to that used between 1870- 1928 more rigorous test conditions ( probably for even longer in a few cases). I still admire his work and his mediumship which brought us Silver Birch.

Jim

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Re: The death of physical mediumship - PN

Post by Admin on Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:47 am

Indeed the Zammit empirical observation style seems endemic in modern test Seances. Hardly surprising really, no chaining in a cage, pinning to a wall with a metal hoop around their wast, full body and body cavity search before sewing in a bag, chaining and placing in a cage.

The modern style seems to be I came, I had a bit of a look at the controls and ensured no one took anything into the room as the medium placed them in the seat  and everyone bar the medium took their shoes off. The lights went off and in the darkness I saw nothing to suggest that the medium cheated but I saw that materialised people made contact with loved one's, even if they were occasionally the wrong people, or the injured leg was the wrong one,  or the recipient was well known to the medium, or the trumpet hit someone, or a foot was trodden on by someone wearing a pair of shoes.

Afterwards I proclaimed the medium genuine. That was a good séance; there are worse; it seems to me that when a medium is seem wearing luminous trousers or waving glowsticks (follow down this report it is the same as I received from others, even a medium who attended http://www.independent.co.uk/extras/sunday-review/features/spirited-away-meet-the-psychics-with-an-uncertain-future-832567.html ) he should be disqualified but heck no. He is not even real news while he plies his wares around the world.

The SNU protocols are vital and should be tightened up, we should revert to the global ban on dark séances except in private circles where the mediums may, or may not, unless they have the right intent, learn and bring their gift into the light and then take them into the public realms.
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Re: The death of physical mediumship - PN

Post by obiwan on Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:52 am

Hm. Well from my recent reading of Barbanell, he certainly did sit with mediums who were properly restrained and sometimes sealed with wax in some instances. I'm sure every sitting wasn't like that.

I don't think Barbanell was infallible either but he did witness - as you imply, if he is to be believed -  a great deal of phenomena. In fact he claimed to have witnessed every type of mediumship. I don't know what his reason for doubting Gordon Higginson was, perhaps you do?

I'm not sure what you mean about Gordon Higginson having 'something in his back pocket' for bad days - do you mean he committed fraud?

The conditions under which a medium performs seem to me dependent on the purpose of the sitting. Test conditions may not be required where sitters have already determined that the medium is genuine, I can't see that every sitting needs to be rigorously controlled unless it is to used as evidence for those not present or for those who have not already established the medium's genuineness.

As you know, for most types of mediumship the content is the evidence rather than how it is produced. Of course if people want to see flying trumpets or other phenomena then it is necessary to be certain the medium isn't moving things and indeed some mediums have asked to be restrained, in fact Palladino was one such, because they know they may cheat either deliberately or under the influence of 'others' if they are not.

I wouldn't necessary blanket exclude a medium caught in some sort of shenanigans, who has previously been properly controlled, but I would expect an explanation for it.

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Re: The death of physical mediumship - PN

Post by Admin on Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:54 pm

obiwan wrote: I don't think Barbanell was infallible either but he did witness - as you imply, if he is to be believed -  a great deal of phenomena. In fact he claimed to have witnessed every type of mediumship. I don't know what his reason for doubting Gordon Higginson was, perhaps you do?

I'm not sure what you mean about Gordon Higginson having 'something in his back pocket' for bad days - do you mean he committed fraud?


I am sure Barbanell experienced all kind of phenomena in all conditions and he was very hard on any fraud he detected. In terms of his concerns about Gordon Higginson the forum tread I placed a link to shows the reason why. In essence the stories in these two editions of Psypioneer are what is involved.
http://www.woodlandway.org/PDF/PP6.5.May2010..pdf
http://www.woodlandway.org/PDF/PP6.4.April2010..pdf

They may explain my back pocket comment, however my only experience with Gordon Higginson was that he was an exceptional medium and Lis had more experience with him than I did and thought the same.

My mind goes back to a story I heard concerning Doris Stokes about to work on stage with another medium. I cannot remember where I saw it so you should possibly take it as possible urban myth. She asked the male medium (I do not remember who certainly not Gordon) how he coped with the worry that when he stood up there would be no link to Spirit because it was a possibility always terrified her. He said he wandered around before working listening to people, going to the toilet to overhear what he could so that if Spirit was not there he had something to get started with.

I have seen mediums use this approach on a Sunday, at times they then get onto a link other times they work psychically around the room. Indeed in a smallish place like Adelaide you get to know people and see the same Spirit visitors so often you have to be very careful and police yourself (sometimes I seem to know those in Spirit better than the people in the room). In October last year people laughed when I was talking to a Spirit telling them I would not go to their loved one unless they gave me some fresh evidence, without saying who the message was for. They obliged me so I could make the connection. One father is a genius at providing new evidence.

Jim
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Re: The death of physical mediumship - PN

Post by Admin on Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:50 am

Here we go a report of a Helen Duncan Séance conducted in red light, Oh also of a potentially fraudulent one, Basham, in the dark where it appears the infra red photographs may have been posed. You can guess which report is convincing.
http://www.woodlandway.org/PDF/PP9.6June2013.pdf

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Re: The death of physical mediumship - PN

Post by Admin on Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:20 am

Ok here is some more material on the use of Infra red when first it began to be used and Psychic News thought it was the greatest thing available.
http://www.woodlandway.org/PDF/PP8.5May2012.pdf
http://woodlandway.org/PDF/PP8.6June2012.pdf
Lovely picture of Dorothy Henderson again.
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Re: The death of physical mediumship - PN

Post by obiwan on Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:30 am

Very interesting thanks Jim. The Colvin one I have seen before, the issue is the length of time it took to come out though he did explain it. I can't understand why he didn't raise the issues at the time tbh. I guess like you say, you judge as you find.

Having read the earlier one I can see why Barbanell didn't see eye to eye with GH. There is a least circumstantial evidence of something amiss.

The posed photo of Helen Duncan I am less bothered by as its provenance is unclear and was perhaps taken for demonstration purposes as opposed to purporting to be a photo in 'real time'?

Most interesting.

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Re: The death of physical mediumship - PN

Post by obiwan on Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:21 pm

The article on William Johnson is interesting as I was brought up near Hyde and lived in Gee Cross for many years.

obiwan


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Re: The death of physical mediumship - PN

Post by obiwan on Tue Jan 13, 2015 3:43 pm

There are some great articles on psi pioneer.

obiwan


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Re: The death of physical mediumship - PN

Post by Jane Lyzell on Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:59 pm

Intresting thanks Smile
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Re: The death of physical mediumship - PN

Post by Admin on Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:59 am

The Hamilton Glendenning material has been updated too http://www.spiritualismlink.com/t333p15-researcher-hamilton-thomas-Glendenning.
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