a grand - or grandiose? - vision?

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Re: a grand - or grandiose? - vision?

Post by Neilos on Sat Jan 10, 2015 9:01 am

Thanks for your reply Lis and a great post Smile. I agree that physical mediumship in some respects needs to keep with the modern world and its technology . Don't know enought about thermal imaging cameras to comment on whether the energy can be dangerous or not. If not, I agree that there should be no other reason not to try if the spirit team are in agreement. If physical mediumship is done well the proof literally speaks for itself and takes away the need for infra red or thermal imaging technology unless it is for research purposes. The Luddite analogy was included to bring some levity to my post and not to insult. I agree with your conclusion and to am extent a Luddite too.

Neilos


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Re: a grand - or grandiose? - vision?

Post by mac on Sat Jan 10, 2015 2:59 pm

Neilos wrote:I find there is a sense of general cynicism regarding modern physical mediumship on this page and members lament the golden era of our past. It's like watching Luddites discuss new technologies lol! Not all of the modern physical mediums are frauds nor is everyone on the Internet deceitful. In my experience mental mediumship generally is of a poor quality and just as hard to find as a good home circle that invites guests. I still prefer to hunt for the circle rather than sit and moan in a state of almost learned helplessness.

Then I'm a Luddite too!  

Of course not all mediums are frauds - mediums of any flavour! - but isn't it depressing to read the garbage put out by some of today's physical mediums in response to concerns raised in open discussion forums?  Are there any thoughtful ones who can and will listen to reasoned arguments that what's sometimes being demonstrated nowadays is, for example, phenomenalism rather than mediumship?

I'm thankful that I don't need (or indeed want) to go hunting for a home circle or visiting churches and/or centres looking for evidence of survival BUT it would be nice to be able to refer seekers to places where they could expect reliable mediumship and not psychism or phenomenalism.

mac


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Re: a grand - or grandiose? - vision?

Post by Jane Lyzell on Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:12 pm

modern physical mediumship !? - modern mediumship !?  Modern human !?

Well why shuld mediumship in generally  be diffrent from mediumship in the past ? I meen we the mediums are still humans and we still work as the same as people from the past - so tell me how mediumship culd be modern!?

people still geth birth do children the same way as always and amniotic fluid in utero are still the same salinity as the primeval sea.

In my nolegd i havent seen modern ore new humans have you ?

Mediumship is trouh a medium -a medium is a human - and it works the same as allvays has. -tere is no new energi that energi has alvays been ther what sk modern physical medium is caling new energi is the first energi that comes in to a phycical cirkel the eteric energi.

If there is a new modern way to mediumship - then you need to greate a hole new human!
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Re: a grand - or grandiose? - vision?

Post by mac on Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:48 pm

Modern physical mediumship only means 'modern day' p.m.  

You're right that there are probably no new humans who are different from any 'old' ones but we can't know whether a (literally) new form of energy may one day be used in mediumship.  All we feel right now is that presently there's nothing different from things before.  But who knows what the decades or centuries ahead will bring?

The movement of Modern Spiritualism may have run its intended course.  At some point in earth's future, today's mediumship may simply be a curiosity for spiritual historians to study and document, rather as the early days of Spiritualism currently are.  Who knows whether our friends unseen have prepared a new phase of communication of the message of survival, a phase which will enter this world in a way we can't envisage, kinda like the story of the Fox girls?  

Perhaps the mediums of our future will come to this world with attributes not widely seen before, the province of individuals we see as fantasists today?  

Who knows?

mac


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Re: a grand - or grandiose? - vision?

Post by Neilos on Sat Jan 10, 2015 7:15 pm

Well I am a modern man and will wash a dish or two lol! Well l have read about photoplasm being used by spirit instead of ectoplasm because it is safer apparently. I wonder if it is a gaseous form of ectoplasm rather than a different substance entirely.

Neilos


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Re: a grand - or grandiose? - vision?

Post by mac on Sat Jan 10, 2015 9:30 pm

I know nothing about this so-called photoplasm. Can you enlighten me with a brief explanation and also say who's using it and how successfully? I'd appreciate it and it would save my hunting stuff out.

mac


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Re: a grand - or grandiose? - vision?

Post by Jane Lyzell on Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:58 pm

mac wrote:I know nothing about this so-called photoplasm.  Can you enlighten me with a brief explanation and also say who's using it and how successfully?  I'd appreciate it and it would save my hunting stuff out.

it is eterialisation the beginning of a mateialisation - the spirit
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Re: a grand - or grandiose? - vision?

Post by Jane Lyzell on Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:02 pm

mac wrote:Modern physical mediumship only means 'modern day' p.m.  

You're right that there are probably no new humans who are different from any 'old' ones but we can't know whether a (literally) new form of energy may one day be used in mediumship.  All we feel right now is that presently there's nothing different from things before.  But who knows what the decades or centuries ahead will bring?

The movement of Modern Spiritualism may have run its intended course.  At some point in earth's future, today's mediumship may simply be a curiosity for spiritual historians to study and document, rather as the early days of Spiritualism currently are.  Who knows whether our friends unseen have prepared a new phase of communication of the message of survival, a phase which will enter this world in a way we can't envisage, kinda like the story of the Fox girls?  

Perhaps the mediums of our future will come to this world with attributes not widely seen before, the province of individuals we see as fantasists today?  

Who knows?


No then yoy need a new human fore that - Mediumship isent Magic it is pure sience
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Re: a grand - or grandiose? - vision?

Post by mac on Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:50 pm

Jane Lyzell wrote:
mac wrote:Modern physical mediumship only means 'modern day' p.m.  

You're right that there are probably no new humans who are different from any 'old' ones but we can't know whether a (literally) new form of energy may one day be used in mediumship.  All we feel right now is that presently there's nothing different from things before.  But who knows what the decades or centuries ahead will bring?

The movement of Modern Spiritualism may have run its intended course.  At some point in earth's future, today's mediumship may simply be a curiosity for spiritual historians to study and document, rather as the early days of Spiritualism currently are.  Who knows whether our friends unseen have prepared a new phase of communication of the message of survival, a phase which will enter this world in a way we can't envisage, kinda like the story of the Fox girls?  

Perhaps the mediums of our future will come to this world with attributes not widely seen before, the province of individuals we see as fantasists today?  

Who knows?


No then yoy need a new human fore that - Mediumship isent Magic it is pure sience

I've lost count of the number of times I've told folk much the same thing, Jane.  Mediumship is not magic.  But we don't know a scrat about the science surrounding mediumship and we don't know if there are other techniques yet to be revealed by our friends in spirit.

Perhaps they will communicate in ways we've not seen in the past?  We simply don't know and it might be long past the end of the lives of all of us before any such things emerge.  We could be long gone and forgotten before anything changes - we may even have returned to take a look!!!

We probably won't ever know what's around the corner and as the caution given with investment advice goes, past performance is no guarantee of future performance.[/font]

mac


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Re: a grand - or grandiose? - vision?

Post by Admin on Sun Jan 11, 2015 12:22 am

mac wrote:I know nothing about this so-called photoplasm.  Can you enlighten me with a brief explanation and also say who's using it and how successfully?  I'd appreciate it and it would save my hunting stuff out.

I agree with Jane that this is probably Etherialisation. I remember a debate about this earlier on this forum which is worth a look http://www.spiritualismlink.com/t354-physical-mediumship-what-is-energy-versus-ectoplasm . It is interesting that I have now found the early reference to this in the Liberator article in the "Death of Physical Mediumship" thread.

I still remember being thrown into circles and Spiritualism when Spirit organised my meeting with Lis in late 1983. Lis was working as a platform medium and building a strong reputation. Naturally I then started going to the churches when she worked and was sat by the Presidents on platform with Lis. They were big crowds she drew, with some people following her week to week (mark you congregations were bigger then but swelled more with the best mediums). At the time, Gordon Higginson, Doris Collins, Ivy Northage and many more really good mediums still worked the churches. Given we also went to churches to watch it was hard to fault the  mediumship at the time, although, and not just in my opinion, Lis was one of the best. Sorry Neilos Golden Age stuff! Certainly it gave me all the evidence I needed and my own work as a medium continues to give me that proof now.

The real point was that all the debate then was now mental mediumship had reached such a remarkable level there was no longer a need for Physical Mediumship with all of its issues, darkness, danger, poor evidence and fraud. The argument was that the next stage would be Etherialisation through energy, safe, conducted in the light and purely evidential.

Oh well maybe, on the basis of the account I gave, in the thread I have just given a link t,o it must be highly possible. Sadly, through injury and an astonishing level of illness that group has not been able to revisit the previous work maybe some day.

Jim
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Re: a grand - or grandiose? - vision?

Post by Left Behind on Sun Jan 11, 2015 12:29 am

I think that the spirit world reaches us in many different ways, and varies its approach - or its primary approaches - to suit the prevailing 'spirit' of the age.

In times past, people were more faith oriented: so faith in revealed religion worked well.

Then, faith waned: and in came physical mediumship: a spiritual sound and light show, if you will.

Then charlatanism set in, the sound and light show ran its course: and in came the era of mental mediumship.

In the present day, we have a new religion called science, and its degreed hierarchy is the new priesthood: hence the interest in the near-death phenomenon.

But all approaches are valid, in all eras. It's just that some people are more moved by one approach than they are by another, and one approach works better in a given era than another.

What the future will bring, we cannot know. But we may rest assured that spirit will never cease reaching out to those of us still trapped in this realm of material matter.

Left Behind


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Re: a grand - or grandiose? - vision?

Post by mac on Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:22 am

wow! I'd forgotten all that, Jim! Perhaps not surprising - the date shows it was almost six years ago when you dealt with the subject - even zerdini was an active contrbutor. Those were the days!

Thanks for the walk down memory lane, a chance to re-activate my thoughts on a subject I'd totally forgotten about.



mac


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Re: a grand - or grandiose? - vision?

Post by mac on Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:23 am

What time are you in Adelaide? It's 7.25 pm here.

mac


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Re: a grand - or grandiose? - vision?

Post by Admin on Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:24 am

I have just bought myself a new job Mac creating an index for each forum so we can easily see what's in it. 6 years ago I was still a young man under 60 (well just by a little bit).

It was a very interesting thread.
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Re: a grand - or grandiose? - vision?

Post by Admin on Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:26 am

12.55pm here. The different time zones are a killer but I always know the UK time summer and winter .. except they start and leave winter and summertime on different days to us.
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Re: a grand - or grandiose? - vision?

Post by mac on Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:28 am

Early afternoon then but Sunday whereas it's Saturday evening as I'm writing. I used to have an ex Brit, now Oz, contact and I was then constantly aware of the time down under

mac


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Re: a grand - or grandiose? - vision?

Post by mac on Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:32 am

Admin wrote:I have just bought myself a new job Mac creating an index for each forum so we can easily see what's in it. 6 years ago I was still a young man under 60 (well just by a little bit).

It was a very interesting thread.

And I was 61. 67½ now. The index should be useful, something that all forum structures would benefit from. Some years back I was ready to start an index for all the NAS material but things didn't work out.

mac


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Re: a grand - or grandiose? - vision?

Post by Admin on Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:44 am

By the way Left Behind I thought that was a good post I know Spirit still are its just some are not listening properly.
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Re: a grand - or grandiose? - vision?

Post by Neilos on Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:54 am

Check the Ghost Circle website Mac. There is a article on Photoplasm there:)

Neilos


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Re: a grand - or grandiose? - vision?

Post by Jane Lyzell on Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:24 pm

Left Behind wrote:I think that the spirit world reaches us in many different ways, and varies its approach - or its primary approaches - to suit the prevailing 'spirit' of the age.

In times past, people were more faith oriented: so faith in revealed religion worked well.

Then, faith waned: and in came physical mediumship: a spiritual sound and light show, if you will.

Then charlatanism set in, the sound and light show ran its course: and in came the era of mental mediumship.

In the present day, we have a new religion called science, and its degreed hierarchy is the new priesthood: hence the interest in the near-death phenomenon.

But all approaches are valid, in all eras. It's just that some people are more moved by one approach than they are by another, and one approach works better in a given era than another.

What the future will bring, we cannot know. But we may rest assured that spirit will never cease reaching out to those of us still trapped in this realm of material matter.

there are people still today belive that mediumship is Magic and Medium encourages the picture, so they can sit on a pedestal!
In my understanding, it is science in between worlds - atleast if we are to believe what our spirit friends tell us in the physical séances and trance
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Re: a grand - or grandiose? - vision?

Post by mac on Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:25 pm


It's a sad fact that some individuals deliberately mislead others and that's something found across the whole range of human activities and not just mediumship.

Of course mediumship is not magic but we don't understand any of the science of how trans-dimensional communication takes place. It seems to need an organic agency much of the time, a medium.

On the subject of science, we don't even know if the science of this physical dimension relates - or has no relevance to - the science of the etheric ones.  I've heard that experimentation is going on to develop some kind of communication device that removes any need for a medium but thus far it's just so much talk.  I'm sceptical such a device could ever be devised but who knows what's around the corner.

mac


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Re: a grand - or grandiose? - vision?

Post by Jane Lyzell on Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:40 pm

All forms of mediumship is science between worlds. There is a whole team with spirit helpers that make communication possible. They are scientists, quantum physicists, health care doctors, and others who make communication even possible.

Mediumship without a medium is not possible - not even in EVP, or television is required always a human medium that it goes through


Last edited by Jane Lyzell on Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: a grand - or grandiose? - vision?

Post by Left Behind on Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:46 pm

The medium isn't the message, but there's no message without the medium. Smile

Left Behind


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Re: a grand - or grandiose? - vision?

Post by mac on Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:14 am

Jane Lyzell wrote:All forms of mediumship is science between worlds. There is a whole team with andligha helpers that make communication possible. They are scientists, quantum physicists, health care doctors, and others who make communication even possible.

Mediumship without a medium is not possible - not even in EVP, or television is required always a human medium that it goes through

Maybe what I write is being lost as English isn't your first language but I didn't say that science isn't involved.  What I said is that we don't have any understanding of that science relating to communication and mediumship.  We don't know, for example, what's involved when a medium and communicator each change to eliminate as much as possible the differences in their 'vibrations' - whatever that means in scientific terms! Laughing

Concerning your last paragraph your right - mediumship (by definition) isn't possible without the agency of a medium but communication may be possible without.  There are those who will argue that certain electronic phenomena are the result of discarnates seeking to communicate directly with incarnates, without any third party assistance of a medium.  That's not me saying it - I'm just reporting what I hear on other discussion websites/forums.

mac


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Re: a grand - or grandiose? - vision?

Post by Jane Lyzell on Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:48 am

mac wrote:
Jane Lyzell wrote:All forms of mediumship is science between worlds. There is a whole team with andligha helpers that make communication possible. They are scientists, quantum physicists, health care doctors, and others who make communication even possible.

Mediumship without a medium is not possible - not even in EVP, or television is required always a human medium that it goes through

Maybe what I write is being lost as English isn't your first language but I didn't say that science isn't involved.  What I said is that we don't have any understanding of that science relating to communication and mediumship.  We don't know, for example, what's involved when a medium and communicator each change to eliminate as much as possible the differences in their 'vibrations'  - whatever that means in scientific terms!   Laughing

Concerning your last paragraph your right - mediumship (by definition) isn't possible without the agency of a medium but communication may be possible without.  There are those who will argue that certain electronic phenomena are the result of discarnates seeking to communicate directly with incarnates, without any third party assistance of a medium.  That's not me saying it - I'm just reporting what I hear on other discussion websites/forums.

No you cant have kontakt and comunication whit oute a medium (ore a human ho is as the medium) you need some how press the butten Wink
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