Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Page 4 of 20 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 12 ... 20  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by mac on Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:48 am

I'm not especially interested in p.m. or phenomena in themselves but from what I learned decades back the constituents of ectoplasm borrowed from the medium must return to the medium, that usually happening before the sitting concluded.  

To me it sounds bizarre that ectoplasm would be left lying on the floor while sitters trooped from the seance room BUT maybe things are different now from how they were in times past?  As I don't attend modern day seances, and I haven't anyway attended those from the past, I'm in no position to judge if new techniques have been developed.  It sounds implausible but who can prove it's not the case?

Whatever the true situation concerning ectoplasm I am still of the view that in itself it's of little value until it has a role in demonstrating evidence of the notion of surival.  Once it does that I'm a wholehearted supporter.

mac


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by carrsam on Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:31 am

I sat with the so called medium in question and I was not impressed medium wanted the names of all sitter a week before the seance and just so happened when message came out the info was found on net and on websites .....
Interesting the set up of room medium wife one side if him and other sitter. Next to wife table with music ECt. Then a sitter other side of table .
The night of a small apport came medium had a bottle of fizzy in not a clear bottle ( not search I may add ) the apport of small crystal could have fitted in bottle . ( just adding that )


carrsam


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by mac on Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:39 am

I'm guessing you weren't impressed overall with the demonstration?

mac


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by baumer7 on Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:02 pm

From my medium friend who arranged the Kai seance....regarding Julia & whether she was searched or not:

"Yes, patted down twice and scanned with the electric thingy. She was also right next to Ava - an advanced circle member, someone who cannot be fooled (and someone I trust implicitly) - she did not move - oh and sang or hummed so you knew where she was."

Steve
avatar
baumer7


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by obiwan on Tue Sep 16, 2014 5:27 pm

The ectoplasm thing is odd indeed. My understanding is that ectoplasm is senstitive to light and returns to the medium after the seance. What did kai do afterwards? Have a fry-up?

obiwan


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by baumer7 on Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:13 pm

Hi Guys,
I'm so sorry...I'm wrong about the ectoplasm...I checked with others & it was not on the floor when we filed out..."The ectoplasm immediately dissipated - as Hans counts him down it went as quickly as it came." This was from the person to my right who WAS one of Hans/Kai's controls.
My bad!
Steve
avatar
baumer7


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by mac on Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:59 pm

Ah, OK - that's cleared away the uncertainty.

mac


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by baumer7 on Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:45 pm

Sarcasm:-)?
avatar
baumer7


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by mac on Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:02 pm

not from me!

mac


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by baumer7 on Wed Sep 17, 2014 8:36 pm

Better not be:-)!
avatar
baumer7


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by Admin on Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:19 am

Hi Steve,

There is so much more to come on this let us wait and let things fall out, I know you are very supportive,( I may believe you get caught in the moment but you would certainly dispute this), of the PM's despite much, very contradictory, information.

Jim
avatar
Admin
Admin


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by Lis on Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:09 am

As some may be aware, Kai Muegge was due to hold a significant number of séances, table tilting, and workshop events, at a venue in Australia between November 7 - 16. It seems, this event was for a charitable purpose, however he would have had his air fares covered.

He was also due to go on to another venue in a different state of Australia to hold yet more séances between the 18th and 28th of November, the charge for each séance being significant and would have netted Muegge a significant amount of money.

Rumour has it, and several sources appear to confirm the accuracy of it, that Mr. Muegge was denied entry to Australia because he attempted to enter on a tourist visa when he was intending to work and obtain income from his activities. The authorities take a dim view of people trying enter Australia on tourist visas when they plan on working.

If Mr Muegge wanted to work while in Australia he should have applied for a work visa, and it seems that the consequence of his action may be that he has been banned from working in all Commonwealth countries, possibly for up for a year.

From what I have heard on the grape vine in recent months, Muegge may have other problems that might make it even more unlikely he will be welcomed back into Australia, and perhaps elsewhere, any time soon.

What has happened to this particular medium (if this person can be considered under that title) might serve also as a warning to other mediums from the UK or elsewhere that think they can travel to Australia on tourist visas when they actually intend to hold demonstrations, séances, workshops, or give private readings for money.

If the Australian immigration authorities learn of their intention they are likely to find themselves in difficulties. Unfortunately, people do seem rather keen to promote themselves and their proposed activities on the internet, especially using social media, and hence rather telegraphing to the powers that be what they are up to.

There is a lesson to be learnt here!

Lis
Admin


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by Lis on Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:04 am

As it happens, there is some further rumours about, but to hear more on that you need to take a look at the Warren Caylor thread on this forum.

Lis
Admin


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by mac on Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:13 pm

interesting - I have raised before the point about charged-for services, and without paying taxes, in foreign countries. If he didn't have a work permit and was caught out by the authorities he deserves to be denied entry.

mac


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by obiwan on Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:15 pm

Jane Lyzell wrote:what i understand there has been an ivestigation on Kai Mugges physical mediumship - we hade the parapsychologists here in sweden - resurts the investigetion on that resurs by Michael Nham and Prof Stephan Braude that has been don for 4 yers- Two researchers Stephen Braude and Michael Nahm investigated the medium Kai Mugge, Felix Experimental Group, for four years.

Their conclusion was that the fraud could not be ruled out, which does not surprise me in the slightest.

Among other things, scientists had studied the so-called ectoplasm which in this case was similar web. Such fabric they found in a shop where illusionist gadgets sold and they also had evidence that Kai Mugge had bought an incredible amount of artificial cobwebs. The researchers had also tried to have the material in the mouth and after that they had been able to shape the exact same "model" as Kai showed up during the seances. They had also found the stash, which was claimed by retrieving, in a store. A light phenomenon that impressed turned out to also be sold in the shop for magicians products.

and what i understand he he refused to be body searched- if this is right is a nother scandal in physical mediumship - ho culd you trusth ?

"Fraud could not be ruled out" is more a comment on the protocol and controls in place than a comment on the genuineness of the medium as such imho. I'm not saying the medium is genuine just that the phrase seems a bit lame to me.

On the visa matter - that's just plain stupid isn't it?

obiwan


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by Lis on Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:48 pm

Actually Jane, the research into Muegge didn't take place in Sweden, although I am sure they also visited Sweden as part of their investigation into the man's mediumship. The reports by Braude and Nahm, are clearly already on this thread on the forum, if you care to take a look.

Obiwan, "fraud could not be ruled out" is Jane's remark, not that of the researchers involved, although, I would not blame them had they presented in that way - not because it was about protocols and controls (although in the case of Muegge, if may have been difficult to have actually been in control of such) - but rather more so, because how ever certain they may actually feel of fraud having taken place, until they have cut and dried evidence that would stand up in court ( Sad there is little more than that they can say publicly, I suspect.

On the visa matter, you are entirely correct. - just plain stupid, but at the same time, just plain dishonest. I have no doubt the man was aware that to earn money in Australia he needed a work visa, but with an inclination for undeclared income, to try and get away with false entry into a country proved all too tempting. After all he got away with it the first time he entered Australia, why not try the same approach again?

Lis
Admin


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by obiwan on Sun Nov 09, 2014 1:17 pm

Hi Lis

On the visa I agree stupid and more to the point, dishonest.

On the fraud matter, my own view is that investigators have a responsibility to insist on sufficient controls and either not to proceed if they can't be applied or at least be very circumspect in their comments if they go ahead.

Actually, in the case of the medium mentioned, there seems to be quite a bit of at least, circumstantial evidence, of fraud that was uncovered post-sitting. I think it is right to mention this. I just didn't like the phrase Jane used as it potentially implies fraud without saying it.

I would say most examples of genuine mediumship could have the same said of them and the phrase introduces an implied criticism of the medium when it is really a criticism of the method.

obiwan


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by baumer7 on Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:17 pm

Admin wrote:Hi Steve,

There is so much more to come on this let us wait and let things fall out, I know you are very supportive,( I may believe you get caught in the moment but you would certainly dispute this), of the PM's despite much, very contradictory, information.

Jim

Hi Jim,
    You're right.  I am dying to see real PM.  It is hard to believe someone so genuine in conversation would be so dishonest in the presentation of their mediumship.  At the seance I attended, my very good friend arranged the whole thing & supplied the venue & worked as Kai's control on his other side across from his wife. I was right next to her. She has been a medium/teacher/ordained minister for many years & I trust her very much.  She believes Kai is for real.  I saw nothing to say he's not.  Specifically the ectoplasm he extruded came from the roof of his mouth...he pulled it with his hands to a length of 10 feet at least.  There was a simultaneous funky smell along with this & I cannot imagine it not being the real stuff.  
With much respect, as always:-)!
Steve
avatar
baumer7


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by Mark74 on Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:56 pm

I am not aware of any of the old mediums "pulling ectoplasm" from their mouths, quite the opposite the ectoplasm flowed naturally.

Mark74


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by Lis on Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:04 pm

Steve,

Thanks for your remarks. It is, of course, difficult to believe otherwise when from your own personal experience you saw nothing that made you believe this person was not genuine.

Unfortunately, other people have observed otherwise and the matters of the use of what appeared to be D'Lite Flight magic lights and the purchase of the Halloween cobweb material, a matter about which there is no doubt, does, to my mind, give rise to significant concerns.

As for your comments regarding Mr Muegge's wife, I would only point out, that if this person is as experienced and trustworthy as you suggest it is rather surprising, is it not, that she would accompany her husband on a trip to Australia using a tourist visa, knowing her husband was also on a tourist visa.

She would have well known her husband was going to be making a very significant sum of money while in Australia for the many séances and other activities he was going to perform. And, of course, she was going to be assisting him, and therefore complicit in the attempt to deceive the Australian immigration authorities.

Perhaps you are right, in that she believes her husband is "for real," but that does not, in my opinion, excuse dishonesty in terms of their trip to Australia.

Lis
Admin


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by Lis on Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:21 pm

Hi Mark74,

You are quite correct. The mediums of the past certainly did not pull ectoplasm from their mouths like it was some sort of a party trick. For it to be happening now is, to my mind, very suspicious.

Lis
Admin


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by obiwan on Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:50 pm

Lis wrote:Hi Mark74,

You are quite correct. The mediums of the past certainly did not pull ectoplasm from their mouths like it was some sort of a party trick. For it to be happening now is, to my mind, very suspicious.

Did any mediums produce ectoplasm when not in trance?

obiwan


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by Mark74 on Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:53 pm

Hi Lis, I agree it is all too suspicious, for all the years he is operating I've yet to hear of any solid evidence of survival supplied through his so-called mediumship.

Mark74


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by Lis on Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:36 pm

obiwan wrote:
Lis wrote:Hi Mark74,

You are quite correct. The mediums of the past certainly did not pull ectoplasm from their mouths like it was some sort of a party trick. For it to be happening now is, to my mind, very suspicious.

Did any mediums produce ectoplasm when not in trance?

A Very good question Obiwan.

Examination of the records would suggest that the production of ectoplasm by mediums was exclusively produced when the medium was in a deep trance state. That being the case, it is particularly 'interesting' to note that in the case of Mr Muegge, he was, while said to be in a trance state, able to so competently manipulate the 'ectoplasm' apparently coming out of his mouth.

Of course, in the early decades of materialisation mediumship there was no record of such 'ectoplasm' flowing out of the orifices of the medium while in the trance state. The materialisations just seemed to grow from a fog or smoke-like mass that developed near to the medium, or, indeed, outside the cabinet in which the medium sat, and eventually form into a recognisable human form or reveal human-like faces within the mass. And, of course, this all happened in a séance room in which there was light not complete darkness.

There is a very sad misconception about all this these days. In the past, when physical phenomena and in particular materialisation phenomena was occurring, the dark séance was for physical phenomena such as the movement of objects, the ringing of bells, etc., while for the materialisation séance, the light was put back on, albeit soft or low light. NO point in having a dark séance for materialisation as no one would see anything which would have defeated the whole purpose of the materialisation séance. It still does!

Lis
Admin


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by obiwan on Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:14 am

Lis wrote:
obiwan wrote:
Lis wrote:Hi Mark74,

You are quite correct. The mediums of the past certainly did not pull ectoplasm from their mouths like it was some sort of a party trick. For it to be happening now is, to my mind, very suspicious.

Did any mediums produce ectoplasm when not in trance?

A Very good question Obiwan.

Examination of the records would suggest that the production of ectoplasm by mediums was exclusively produced when the medium was in a deep trance state. That being the case, it is particularly 'interesting' to note that in the case of Mr Muegge, he was, while said to be in a trance state, able to so competently manipulate the 'ectoplasm' apparently coming out of his mouth.

Of course, in the early decades of materialisation mediumship there was no record of such 'ectoplasm' flowing out of the orifices of the medium while in the trance state. The materialisations just seemed to grow from a fog or smoke-like mass that developed near to the medium, or, indeed, outside the cabinet in which the medium sat, and eventually form into a recognisable human form or reveal human-like faces within the mass. And, of course, this all happened in a séance room in which there was light not complete darkness.

There is a very sad misconception about all this these days. In the past, when physical phenomena and in particular materialisation phenomena was occurring, the dark séance was for physical phenomena such as the movement of objects, the ringing of bells, etc., while for the materialisation séance, the light was put back on, albeit soft or low light. NO point in having a dark séance for materialisation as no one would see anything which would have defeated the whole purpose of the materialisation séance. It still does!

Well quite! Laughing

obiwan


Back to top Go down

Page 4 of 20 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 12 ... 20  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum