Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Page 6 of 20 Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7 ... 13 ... 20  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by mac on Wed Nov 12, 2014 6:01 pm

What we can't ever know is how we'll feel as discarnates - we only know how we feel as incarnates but all that could change on our return....

Who really understands the situation when trying to communicate the message of survival from the other side? Only those who are trying or have tried! Perhaps as obiwan says our spirit friends sometimes have to make the best of a bad job by using whomever they can work with, however imperfect that individual may be?

mac


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by obiwan on Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:09 pm

mac wrote:
obiwan wrote:
mac wrote:
obiwan wrote:
mac wrote:The situation concerning Herr Mügge looks set to rumble along for quite some time yet.  Those who are persuaded by his performance make more noise than those who aren't and there seems to be no shortage of phenomenalists happy to pay for the performance he gives.

It's sad for those who go to see genuine mediumship but what can you do other than what we small few are doing already?  There's a saying that goes something like 'There's no such thing as bad publicity' and that seems to be the case for this man thus far at least.  

He'll probably avoid in future any testing that calls into question his authenticity and honesty.  Provided his followers continue to follow him I expect he'll continue to ignore everyone else.

Hi Mac

Hope all is well.

Whilst I would never condone fraud, isn't there also an element of caveat emptor in this? Speaking personally, I know much better now than when I started to look into this subject, that one must be circumspect and think very carefully about what one hears or sees (or reads). It is prudent not to rush to judgement either way but to research and understand what one is seeing and how others have validated it in the past.

The problem sometimes, it seems to me, is that often people want the evidence to be true so much that they are reluctant to apply the same common-sense rules that they would apply in other areas of life. Once we 'own' the fact that a medium is genuine, it can be very difficult to admit the possibility of fraud or that we may have been taken-in. Then it becomes very easy to rationalise away any genuine concerns. There is also the threat of expulsion from the group if doubts are expressed- this is a powerful tool used by religious cults and fraudsters in many areas of daily life.

Of course the fraudulent medium is despicable but the sitters also bear some responsibility imho. If they cannot apply sufficient controls then it might be better to at least reserve judgement or better still, not participate. Innocent as lambs yes, but cautious as serpents too perhaps?

Just a thought.

Hi obi - I'm doing OK thanks other than being embroiled in something similar on another website concerning honesty but in connection with erstwhile member here, Waller Joel.  

If you recall he disappeared from this website after being accused of being the troll MU!! but he's established himself online elsewhere as an expert on various matters spiritual.  I've watched there with concern but my expressing doubts about his authenticity and honesty led to a very hostile reaction from someone persuaded he's the 'real deal', forgetting or ignoring his similarities of behaviour to the troll who created mayhem on that website last year.  If he's not the same guy the similarities are remarkable!

In such situations as we see with KM (or WJ) whadya do?  Should we be concerned if conmen dupe the vulnerable and the willing?  Or just leave them to fend for themselves or enjoy the ride when they're willing participants?  Mostly concerned folk don't like others being taken advantage of so I think it's reasonable that we feel as we do about KM and that I feel as I do about WJ.  

If eventually we're proven wrong about either of the guys I'm prepared to admit it.

Sounds like you're doing what you think is right Mac. Who can do more? Don't use too much energy on it.
As a friend of mine once observed:"you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink, on the other hand, at least it knows where the water is if it gets thirsty" Very Happy

I hope I'm doing the right thing, obi. It's not easy getting the balance right between standing up and being counted - even when I get in trouble - and standing back and leaving a situation where folk are being suckered...  I had avoided spending any energy on the issue for a couple of months or so but eventually I thought I had to say my piece as I find it hard to keep my mouth shut all the time!  I had some support but there's a lot going on behind the scenes so I've backed away again for a time to let the dust settle.  

Time will tell if I get involved again...
 Wink

Well as Silver Birch said, motive is the real measure 😄

obiwan


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by LeroyC on Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:45 pm

Hi all,

And so it rumbles on !!. Got an idea Mr Mugge. I hear that Hans Bender is a prominent control in this circle. From the information I have he has a daughter living. Why not invite her to the circle to have, if possible, an 'extended conversation' with her father. I am sure she could confirm this spirits idnentity and possibly raise issues only she and her father knew about ??.

How about it ??...Is this circle up to that challenge ?. It may help establish some credibility which is rapidly ebbing away.

LeroyC

LeroyC


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by obiwan on Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:51 pm

LeroyC wrote:Hi all,

And so it rumbles on !!. Got an idea Mr Mugge. I hear that Hans Bender is a prominent control in this circle. From the information I have he has a daughter living. Why not invite her to the circle to have, if possible, an 'extended conversation' with her father. I am sure she could confirm this spirits idnentity and possibly raise issues only she and her father knew about ??.

How about it ??...Is this circle up to that challenge ?. It may help establish some credibility which is rapidly ebbing away.

LeroyC

Good idea. George Chapman did it.

obiwan


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by Lis on Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:36 pm

dont-like-frauds wrote: 
For a long time I believed in Kai Mügge. I trusted him, and defended him. However, there were things that I observed in the séance room, things I learned from Kai Mügge himself about his past, and concerns about medication that he seemed to take on a daily basis, that caused me to begin to doubt that Kai’s mediumship was genuine.

Hi don't-like-frauds,

May I also welcome you to the forum and for your interesting first post. I would like to ask whether you can tell us something about what things you observed in the séance room or elsewhere that made you have doubts.

Lis

Lis
Admin


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by dont-like-frauds on Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:25 am

...


Last edited by Lis on Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:36 pm; edited 2 times in total

dont-like-frauds


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by Lis on Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:51 am

Hi don't-like-frauds,

So, if I am understanding you correctly, there are two levels at which you found yourself concerned. First, the phenomena level - the fact that from your perspective Kai Muegge was apparently a trance medium with 'Hans Bender' as the spirit that communicated through him but in a trance seminar that he attended he seemed not actually able to do trance and didn't stay for the whole of the seminar.

Yet, a short time before he was seeming to be such a good trance person.

The second level is that you got to know this person closely but that which you learned from this closeness is not things that are so easy to talk about. or perhaps it is things that might be give rise to some problems to say?

Then, perhaps, Jim's concerns that one day this man might turn on his supporters and claim he can debunk the whole physical mediumship scene. But to do that surely he would have to admit that he had been cheating everyone all the time so as to show up their gullibility? Could this be so that this man would do such a thing?

I can appreciate that it may not be easy for you to say all that you have been thinking about this person. But if you feel able to share other examples of your concerns I am sure that the people on this forum would be interested to read about them.

Lis
Admin


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by dont-like-frauds on Thu Nov 13, 2014 1:26 pm

...


Last edited by Lis on Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:37 pm; edited 2 times in total

dont-like-frauds


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by dont-like-frauds on Thu Nov 13, 2014 2:09 pm

...


Last edited by Lis on Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:38 pm; edited 3 times in total

dont-like-frauds


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by baumer7 on Thu Nov 13, 2014 2:20 pm

Hi Jim,
My comments were not about Kai's wife...they were regarding my medium friend...I met Kai's wife at the seance for the first & only time. Sweet sweet girl! But I was not speaking of her. Sorry, my written word got misconstrued:-)! My medium friend's the one that has my trust. Would mention her name, but she wouldn't want me to:-)
Regards,
Steve
avatar
baumer7


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by mac on Thu Nov 13, 2014 2:56 pm

I'm intrigued to learn more about our thread's subject, Kai Mügge, and the situation that surrounds his alleged physical sittings.  We've read others' accounts here in the past and what we've heard recently appears to confirm the worst.

I hope our new member-friend will feel able to say more about the situations he's long felt uncomfortable about.  It's such a shame that this website isn't more widely known to folk interested in mediumship.

mac


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by baumer7 on Thu Nov 13, 2014 3:17 pm

Cannot wait to hear more from DLF! My medium friend is planning on doing more with Kai as far as teaching PM & more seances...will it turn out like Hermann??? We shall see. Something I haven't mentioned is that he went outside right before the seance & I met him at the door when he came back...smelling like marijuana...maybe he uses it as an aid?
avatar
baumer7


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by dont-like-frauds on Thu Nov 13, 2014 3:30 pm

...


Last edited by Lis on Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:38 pm; edited 2 times in total

dont-like-frauds


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by dont-like-frauds on Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:37 pm

...


Last edited by dont-like-frauds on Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:47 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Lis will tell you.)

dont-like-frauds


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by baumer7 on Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:00 pm

Hi DLF,
    That looks just like it.  Not sure if you read farther back in this topic.  I had said that Kai told me (us) that he could understand a medium faking some times (mixed mediumship) & he also stated that Physical phenomena was better than actual evidence...I'll ask my friend to ask about the drivers license when the time comes...Maybe you can PM me about it?  If you could, please do...
Regards,
Steve
avatar
baumer7


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by Lis on Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:10 pm

dont-like-frauds wrote:
baumer7 wrote:Cannot wait to hear more from DLF!  My medium friend is planning on doing more with Kai as far as teaching PM & more seances...will it turn out like Hermann???  We shall see.  Something I haven't mentioned is that he went outside right before the seance & I met him at the door when he came back...smelling like marijuana...maybe he uses it as an aid?  

Hey man, seems you have a good nose! Very Happy
I suggest the following to your friend:
Let him or she asks Kai Mügge, what happened with his driving license! Where is his driving license? Your friend should insists on a clear answer. Maybe he or she should get something in a written form about the driving license of Kai Mügge. Your friend should not be afraid to ask for the driving license of Kai Mügge, when they want to work together.

It seems to me, assuming this person actually had a driving license, but now does not, there are a few well-known reasons that might be the cause: reckless or dangerous driving or driving while under the influence of alcohol or drugs, are causes that come readily to mind.

I wonder what is the reason in Mr Muegge's case?

As for Baumer7's  perception regarding what Muegge smelled of before the séance started, I can only say that if this is correct one must surely wonder whether what went on the séance room shortly after was really genuine mediumship. Surely, some one affected by such a drug would not be able to move into a genuine trance state in which his consciousness would be able to link with spirit. Somehow, I also think that spirit would not want to work through a person affected by mind-altering substances.

Lis
Admin


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by Lis on Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:30 pm

Hi don't-like-frauds,

On looking at the photos you have posted I am particularly struck by the third one in the series. It seems to me that that image quite clearly shows some sort of wire across Muegge's body connected to the light and to his thumb.

Most intriguing.

Lis
Admin


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by Lis on Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:36 pm

Baumer7,

Is the teaching of PM and séances your friend has planned with Kai Muegge anything to do with his planned trip to America in January next year?

I think I mentioned earlier on this thread that I understand that Muegge is now trying to find a way to legally visit the US early next year but might have difficulties.

Lis
Admin


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by Mark74 on Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:47 pm

baumer7 wrote:Hi DLF,
    That looks just like it.  Not sure if you read farther back in this topic.  I had said that Kai told me (us) that he could understand a medium faking some times (mixed mediumship) & he also stated that Physical phenomena was better than actual evidence...I'll ask my friend to ask about the drivers license when the time comes...Maybe you can PM me about it?  If you could, please do...
Regards,
Steve

''he also stated that Physical phenomena was better than actual evidence''

What a ridiculous thing to say, thats probably because he has never provided any evidence for postmortem survival during his seances. Phenomena alone does not provide evidence and support for continuous life. The basis of mediumship is to prove the continuity of life, the evidence backs up the phenomena. Clearly he hasn't a clue.


Last edited by Mark74 on Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:55 pm; edited 1 time in total

Mark74


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by Admin on Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:44 pm

I just thought that I would embed the you tube videos about the d'lite lights, just in case people do not click on the links Hermann has provided  I think we could say they have a more than uncanny similarity to the things Kai was doing in the pictures to say the very least.



avatar
Admin
Admin


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by mac on Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:03 am

It's a sad fact that mediumship is seen by many in very different ways from the way Spiritualists see it.

Physical mediumship is seen as the production of phenomena and evidence of survival is a poor second if it's produced at all...  Non-physical mediumship (so-called 'spiritual mediumship') is often little more than psychic reading with scant evidence of survival or evidential spiritual philosophy/teaching.

Some modern-day mediums appear genuinely to see their gifts in such ways, particularly in connection with the (authentic) production of phenomena.

If it's not authentic, of course, it's simply fraud and trickery.


Last edited by mac on Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:17 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : strike out 'evidential')

mac


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by mac on Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:16 am

The video and the photos are uncannily similar - or perhaps understandably similar if they've been produced in similar ways....   Wink

mac


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by dont-like-frauds on Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:23 am

...


Last edited by Lis on Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:39 pm; edited 2 times in total

dont-like-frauds


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by Lis on Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:03 am

Let me see if I have this right so far:

* Sticks and wires in the séance room (inside the cabinet?) that KM said were "ectoplasmic extensions" but this shouldn't be mentioned to others because one could think it's fraud;

* Black tape straps on the inside of the curtains in places that would not work for the purpose KM claimed;

* Mr. Nahm's report noting seeing such strips and fibre attached similar to that of the Halloween cobweb KM known to have purchased;

* A supposed materialised dog with a tail like a feather, not like it was in real life, and grabbed without apparent awareness or harm to the medium despite his claims to touch is dangerous;

* Other people also having touched 'things' - a green light on a thin stick; a hand shape above the plaque fixed to a thin stick;

* Doubts about whether the trance is genuine;

* Photos that show lights that appear like something similar to 'De'Lite Flight' magic trick;

* KM saying he could understand a medium faking some times;

* KM saying physical phenomena is better than evidence of survival;

* Possible use of an illegal substance before holding a séance.

* KM travelling to country/countries on tourist visa/s when intending to work.

OK. What does that all add up to? Not a lot that is positive from my perspective. Indeed, if I had been planning to have this person attend my home or centre to hold séances or run workshops I would at this point seriously rethink that plan.

Lis
Admin


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by mac on Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:18 am

Even with the best will in the world it's hard to resist the conclusion that it's out-and-out fraud...

mac


Back to top Go down

Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 6 of 20 Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7 ... 13 ... 20  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum