Thoughts on Mediumship and Spiritualism from Od's comments

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Re: Thoughts on Mediumship and Spiritualism from Od's comments

Post by The Od on Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:11 am

obiwan wrote:   The rise of media which give mediums a wide audience is only worthwhile if the mental mediumship demonstrated is evidential. As far as I have seen much, if not all of it, is not evidential at all of survival to people watching or at least shouldn't qualify - though it may be to the handful of recipients.
Handful? How about oil tankers full? My mental mediumship experiences, not all, have been highly evidential.

Which brings me to my point really, and that is this: one can read any number of reports of phenomena by people unknown to us however to be convinced of survival by it alone would IMHO be irrational. At most it might prompt research leading to some personal evidence. Then we are back to square one: where will this personal evidence come from? Without it, one may as well place one's belief in any organised religion of philosophy espoused by a sincere and/or confident 'preacher'.
Do you dismiss the personal testimonies of George Cranley as non-evidential? 50 plus years of delusion, planned mean spiritidness and disinformation? Irrational to trust in him with his record? There are hundreds of Cranley's alive today who offer similar testimonies regarding the evidentiality of discarnate comunications through physical mediums whom they have had personal experience of survival post corporeal death. What is irrational, imo, is to dismiss all of them, and the entire history of evidences, as dishonest.

How do you do that? Rationally?

Perhaps it is a matter of taste however mental mediumship does not seem to me to have anywhere near the evidential potential that a direct conversation with a dead relative or friend...
Of course not but it does not make mental mediumship which meets the criteria of evidentiality any less important in providing continuity of life information. It only means that it is on a lower scale of magnitude.
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Re: Thoughts on Mediumship and Spiritualism from Od's comments

Post by mac on Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:19 am

The clock is ticking....

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Re: Thoughts on Mediumship and Spiritualism from Od's comments

Post by hiorta on Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:33 am

Just when and from where did the contrived term 'Modern' Spiritualism come from?
It has been Spiritualism since before my lifetime, although it branched out into different headings in the UK.
Brazil has a far greater organisation, incorporating schools and medical/Spiritual groups.
The Chinese, Native American, African, Indian folk, etc. have their own understandings and traditions too.
Perhaps if it might be thought that such diversity reflected the 'Spirit World' rather than posing competitive ideas?
Life widens as we pass through and to try to contain it in unproven concepts should probably prove counter productive.
Didn't SB say something about labels?
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Re: Thoughts on Mediumship and Spiritualism from Od's comments

Post by mac on Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:54 am

hiorta wrote:Just when and from where did the contrived term 'Modern' Spiritualism come from?
It has been Spiritualism since before my lifetime, although it branched out into different headings in the UK.
Brazil has a far greater organisation, incorporating schools and medical/Spiritual groups.
The Chinese, Native American, African, Indian folk, etc. have their own understandings and traditions too.
Perhaps if it might be thought that such diversity reflected the 'Spirit World' rather than posing competitive ideas?
Life widens as we pass through and to try to contain it in unproven concepts should probably prove counter productive.
Didn't SB say something about labels?
"Just when and from where did the contrived term 'Modern' Spiritualism come from?" I don't know if I coined (contrived) the term but I'm fairly sure it was once used on the SNU's website because I've often referred others there.

I have certainly pushed it, and continue to do that, to differentiate between Spiritualism - religon/philosophy - and spiritualism, to do with spirituality etc.

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Re: Thoughts on Mediumship and Spiritualism from Od's comments

Post by Admin on Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:14 am

Sorry this thread has gone way off topic I will be splitting it and moving it very shortly.
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Re: Thoughts on Mediumship and Spiritualism from Od's comments

Post by Admin on Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:16 am

It has also been high jacked by Od who has significantly different views of his own. Everyone is entitled to those but it is not appropriate to come on forums and take over threads ...start a new one. If too many are started which are in the wrong place they will be moved or deleted.

Jim
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Re: Thoughts on Mediumship and Spiritualism from Od's comments

Post by Admin on Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:22 am

This may yet get moved again
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Re: Thoughts on Mediumship and Spiritualism from Od's comments

Post by obiwan on Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:50 am

By 'handful' Od I meant the handful of people who will receive personal messages in a public display of mediumship. I agree massive numbers receive what they consider to be evidential messages from mental mediums. The difficulty I have is that not knowing these people personally means that I cannot assess the objective value of their evidential messages. I have to make assumptions about a) what they really were told, b) their ability to logically assess the true evidential value of the message they received.

It may be that the messages are all they appear to be - I just can't say, therefore it would be irrational/illogical for me to simply accept that such messages were of any evidential value to me. I can only make judgements like this for myself, not for other people. I would say that the process by which people decide whether such messages are evidential varies a lot. I have heard many messages where the 'evidence' accepted would not have been considered reasonable by any sensible person.

As for George Cranley - the same applies, I would judge his evidence on what I know of the person and by discussing it with him - then I could form a view. I would say George's testimony is powerful. He would I am sure agree that what one needs is personal evidence though in order to develop a personal conviction about survival of physical death.

As for your own experience; your comments support my original point that your own experience is just that, ie your own. I cannot comment on its value to you as it is your experience, just don't ask me to become a believer based on the testimony of a stranger. That's all I am saying.

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Re: Thoughts on Mediumship and Spiritualism from Od's comments

Post by The Od on Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:32 pm

I'm would very much like to continue this conversation, Obiwan, but I am not interested in being deleted without the Admin moving the content to either his proper place or a new thread. Feel free to do so, I will gladly join you.
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Re: Thoughts on Mediumship and Spiritualism from Od's comments

Post by The Od on Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:33 pm

obiwan wrote:
The Od wrote:We would disagree, obiwan, on many things explicitly with your use of the term irrational.
There's no problem with constructive disagreement and discussion it's how we learn isn't it? You might for example ask why I used that word etc. :DI did say it was In My Humble Opinion
Of course. It is the mathematics of ideas. You have one, I do as well, now we have two each. Very Happy 
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Re: Thoughts on Mediumship and Spiritualism from Od's comments

Post by obiwan on Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:08 pm

The Od wrote:
obiwan wrote:
The Od wrote:We would disagree, obiwan, on many things explicitly with your use of the term irrational.
There's no problem with constructive disagreement and discussion it's how we learn isn't it? You might for example ask why I used that word etc. :DI did say it was In My Humble Opinion
Of course. It is the mathematics of ideas. You have one, I do as well, now we have two each. Very Happy 
Lol indeed. I will reply to your earlier post later (if you know what I mean).

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Re: Thoughts on Mediumship and Spiritualism from Od's comments

Post by obiwan on Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:32 pm

I'm sure that rational conversation will not lead to your extraMUralisation. Very Happy

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Re: Thoughts on Mediumship and Spiritualism from Od's comments

Post by mac on Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:29 pm

obiwan wrote:I'm sure that rational conversation will not lead to your extraMUralisation. Very Happy
Laughing Laughing  very aMUsing!


Last edited by mac on Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:49 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : effect!)

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