Thoughts on Mediumship and Spiritualism from Od's comments

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Thoughts on Mediumship and Spiritualism from Od's comments

Post by The Od on Sun Aug 25, 2013 5:10 am

mac wrote:[color=#333333]As we agonise, discuss, debate, argue and even fall out with one another at times, I wonder if we're on a hiding-to-nothing.....

I'm no historian but I've gained the impression that almost from the outset of the movement that eventually became Modern Spiritualism the lack of good mediumship has been a recurrent lament.  But what do our spiritual counterparts have to say about things from their vantage point?
Quite a lot. Are you familiar with the spirit discussions on this matter recorded by Friends of Leslie Flint?
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Re: Thoughts on Mediumship and Spiritualism from Od's comments

Post by The Od on Sun Aug 25, 2013 5:16 am

Perhaps there are fewer evidential physical mediums simply because there is less need for them?
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Re: Thoughts on Mediumship and Spiritualism from Od's comments

Post by obiwan on Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:30 am

The Od wrote:Perhaps there are fewer evidential physical mediums simply because there is less need for them?
Why would there be less need?

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Re: Thoughts on Mediumship and Spiritualism from Od's comments

Post by Admin on Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:36 am

I think that the original philosophical concepts of Spiritualism backed up by genuine mediumship which really proves survival has an even more important place in the world today.
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Re: Thoughts on Mediumship and Spiritualism from Od's comments

Post by mac on Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:37 pm

The Od wrote:
mac wrote:[color=#333333]As we agonise, discuss, debate, argue and even fall out with one another at times, I wonder if we're on a hiding-to-nothing.....

I'm no historian but I've gained the impression that almost from the outset of the movement that eventually became Modern Spiritualism the lack of good mediumship has been a recurrent lament.  But what do our spiritual counterparts have to say about things from their vantage point?
Quite a lot. Are you familiar with the spirit discussions on this matter recorded by Friends of Leslie Flint?
I was asking about the situation now....

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Re: Thoughts on Mediumship and Spiritualism from Od's comments

Post by mac on Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:42 pm

Admin wrote:I think that the original philosophical concepts of Spiritualism backed up by genuine mediumship which really proves survival has an even more important place in the world today.
As a staunch, but unsure, Modern Spiritualist I hope it's how things actually turn out, Jim.  It's not how I perceive things, though. I hope I've got it wrong and that when I return in the future, Spiritualism is alive and well.

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Since you enquired...

Post by The Od on Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:15 pm

obiwan wrote:
The Od wrote:Perhaps there are fewer evidential physical mediums simply because there is less need for them?
Why would there be less need?

  • We have an extensive history of well investigated, evidential physical mediumship easily accessible through the international Internet.
    The upreporting of the NDE, OBE and similar experiences which, for goOD or bad, are the focus of the spiritual seeking populace.
    The general availability of past life regression/life between life regressions through modern hypnotherapy.
    The rise in mental mediumship (the clairsentients) which demonstrates clearly on live television and can and has and will continue to be easily studied scientifically.
    The cumulative effect of the above.


There's more...that should suffice now. Very Happy 

The argument could be made that the needs of Man spiritually are cyclical as are the abilities of Man spiritually. Just ask the Egyptians, the Atlanteans or Bill Donahue. Wink. Perhaps we are in a cycle where the physical mediumship is of less relevance, less appropriate, that it has waned exactly for that reason. I suppose the same could be said of Spiritualism.
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Re: Thoughts on Mediumship and Spiritualism from Od's comments

Post by The Od on Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:17 pm

mac wrote:
The Od wrote:
mac wrote:[color=#333333]As we agonise, discuss, debate, argue and even fall out with one another at times, I wonder if we're on a hiding-to-nothing.....

I'm no historian but I've gained the impression that almost from the outset of the movement that eventually became Modern Spiritualism the lack of good mediumship has been a recurrent lament.  But what do our spiritual counterparts have to say about things from their vantage point?
Quite a lot. Are you familiar with the spirit discussions on this matter recorded by Friends of Leslie Flint?
I was asking about the situation now....
"Now" as in what starting date??
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Re: Thoughts on Mediumship and Spiritualism from Od's comments

Post by The Od on Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:24 pm

Admin wrote:I think that the original philosophical concepts of Spiritualism backed up by genuine mediumship which really proves survival has an even more important place in the world today.
Certainly if those conditions are met, we would see an acceleration of the acceptance of the continuity of life post corporeal death but it appears that with the increasing acceptance of the life between lives/afterlife the Western World is progressing quite nicely. cheers 

Although I am uncertain what your criteria would be for "really proving survival", that is a nebulous concept among the spiritual and non-spiritual, is it not?

Are the "original philisophical concepts" those of Britten's?
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Re: Thoughts on Mediumship and Spiritualism from Od's comments

Post by The Od on Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:38 pm

hiorta wrote:My personal view is that so much focus has been put on (relatively mediocre) mediumship and so little attention is given to the power of the Inspirational/ Overshadowed Address. The pristine signposts of past Mediumship have collapsed, out of sight, into the material undergrowth.
If you mean by 'focus' that there has been too wide of an acceptance of crappy mediumship as evidential or relevant, I would have to agree. Much of this is naivete, inexperience, thrill seeking and the lack of understanding and historical education as to what defines solid mediumship.

I don't understand what the "power of the Inspirational/ Overshadowed Address" means? Direct voice? Big Jump?

Lazaris? Evil or Very Mad 

"We used to have an organising body"
We did mac, but they were deservedly bound to fail after they grabbed Findlay's magnificent offer without fulfilling their part of the bargain.
As is said: God - the Natural law - is not mocked.
Organizations propogate long term failure.
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Re: Thoughts on Mediumship and Spiritualism from Od's comments

Post by The Od on Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:46 pm

@Lis

Picking on the best known, my opinion on Caylor, Thompson, maybe Muegge is that much if not all of their phenomena - holding ectoplasmic outflows out of the question for the time being - is lower planar ethereals, earth-bound spirits, aliens and/or other ill intentioned entities.

Do you think they are unaware of who they are allowing to seance?
Is it your opinion that all or part of their paranormal seance phenomena is contrived by the medium, his alliances and his staff?
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Re: Thoughts on Mediumship and Spiritualism from Od's comments

Post by mac on Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:09 pm

The Od wrote:
mac wrote:
The Od wrote:
mac wrote:[color=#333333]As we agonise, discuss, debate, argue and even fall out with one another at times, I wonder if we're on a hiding-to-nothing.....

I'm no historian but I've gained the impression that almost from the outset of the movement that eventually became Modern Spiritualism the lack of good mediumship has been a recurrent lament.  But what do our spiritual counterparts have to say about things from their vantage point?
Quite a lot. Are you familiar with the spirit discussions on this matter recorded by Friends of Leslie Flint?
I was asking about the situation now....
"Now" as in what starting date??
Now as we generally understand 'now' - the time we're presently living in. Not a year, a decade or decades ago as with certain mediums who have passed over, for example.

What say the discarnates who are co-operating, and communicating, with living mediums?

mac


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Re: Thoughts on Mediumship and Spiritualism from Od's comments

Post by mac on Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:11 pm

The Od wrote:

"We used to have an organising body"
We did mac, but they were deservedly bound to fail after they grabbed Findlay's magnificent offer without fulfilling their part of the bargain.
As is said: God - the Natural law - is not mocked.
Organizations propagate long term failure.
Isn't it people who are the problem rather than organisations?

mac


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Re: Thoughts on Mediumship and Spiritualism from Od's comments

Post by synaxis on Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:36 pm

mac wrote: Now as we generally understand 'now' - the time we're presently living in.  Not a year, a decade or decades ago as with certain mediums who have passed over, for example.  

What say the discarnates who are co-operating, and communicating, with living mediums?
This is an excellent question, mac – one that I've had in mind for some time – as well as others I've spoken to about the decline of spiritualism.

Does anyone have anything 'evidential' to present in response to this question, i.e. "What say the discarnates ..."?

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Re: Thoughts on Mediumship and Spiritualism from Od's comments

Post by The Od on Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:32 pm

synaxis wrote:
mac wrote: Now as we generally understand 'now' - the time we're presently living in.  Not a year, a decade or decades ago as with certain mediums who have passed over, for example.  

What say the discarnates who are co-operating, and communicating, with living mediums?
This is an excellent question, mac – one that I've had in mind for some time – as well as others I've spoken to about the decline of spiritualism.

Does anyone have anything 'evidential' to present in response to this question, i.e. "What say the discarnates ..."?
If we agree on what is evidential, I do.
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Re: Thoughts on Mediumship and Spiritualism from Od's comments

Post by The Od on Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:34 pm

mac wrote:
The Od wrote:

"We used to have an organising body"
We did mac, but they were deservedly bound to fail after they grabbed Findlay's magnificent offer without fulfilling their part of the bargain.
As is said: God - the Natural law - is not mocked.
Organizations propagate long term failure.
Isn't it people who are the problem rather than organisations?
Are there structured social bodies without people? Razz 
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Re: Thoughts on Mediumship and Spiritualism from Od's comments

Post by The Od on Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:53 pm

mac wrote:[color=#333333]As we agonise, discuss, debate, argue and even fall out with one another at times, I wonder if we're on a hiding-to-nothing.....

I'm no historian but I've gained the impression that almost from the outset of the movement that eventually became Modern Spiritualism the lack of good mediumship has been a recurrent lament.  But what do our spiritual counterparts have to say about things from their vantage point?
Noting I can tell that would fall within your parameters of Modern Spiritualism and its involvement with good mediumship.

Outside of Modern Spritualism, that's another subject entirely. sunny 
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Re: Thoughts on Mediumship and Spiritualism from Od's comments

Post by obiwan on Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:09 pm

The Od wrote:
We have an extensive history of well investigated, evidential physical mediumship easily accessible through the international Internet.
The upreporting of the NDE, OBE and similar experiences which, for goOD or bad, are the focus of the spiritual seeking populace.
The general availability of past life regression/life between life regressions through modern hypnotherapy.
The rise in mental mediumship (the clairsentients) which demonstrates clearly on live television and can and has and will continue to be easily studied scientifically.
The cumulative effect of the above.

.
Despite this "well-investigated history" there seems to me an almost complete lack of awareness of it even amongst spiritualists. It is also very easy for cynics to undermine the research, most of which did not occur in living memory and is reported by people who cannot be directly questioned anymore alas - they having also joined the choir invisible.

Past life regression seems IMHO to be very weak evidentially compared to materialisation or independent voice mediumship, and much of the past life regression evidence that does have any evidential content might equally well be explained by spirit-obsession which in one way might be evidence of a spirit realm, but is not necessarily evidence of survival.

The rise of media which give mediums a wide audience is only worthwhile if the mental mediumship demonstrated is evidential. As far as I have seen much, if not all of it, is not evidential at all of survival to people watching or at least shouldn't qualify - though it may be to the handful of recipients.

Which brings me to my point really, and that is this: one can read any number of reports of phenomena by people unknown to us however to be convinced of survival by it alone would IMHO be irrational. At most it might prompt research leading to some personal evidence. Then we are back to square one: where will this personal evidence come from? Without it, one may as well place one's belief in any organised religion of philosophy espoused by a sincere and/or confident 'preacher'.

Perhaps it is a matter of taste however mental mediumship does not seem to me to have anywhere near the evidential potential that a direct conversation with a dead relative or friend would have.

I'm with Mac - ask the purported communicators - that is if you can find a medium with sufficient credibility to give answers worth hearing on the matter.


Last edited by obiwan on Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:11 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Fixed grammar)

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Re: Thoughts on Mediumship and Spiritualism from Od's comments

Post by The Od on Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:49 pm

We would disagree, obiwan, on many things explicitly with your use of the term irrational.
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Re: Thoughts on Mediumship and Spiritualism from Od's comments

Post by obiwan on Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:03 am

The Od wrote:We would disagree, obiwan, on many things explicitly with your use of the term irrational.
There's no problem with constructive disagreement and discussion it's how we learn isn't it? You might for example ask why I used that word etc. Very Happy I did say it was In My Humble Opinion

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Re: Thoughts on Mediumship and Spiritualism from Od's comments

Post by mac on Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:02 am

The Od wrote:
mac wrote:As we agonise, discuss, debate, argue and even fall out with one another at times, I wonder if we're on a hiding-to-nothing.....

I'm no historian but I've gained the impression that almost from the outset of the movement that eventually became Modern Spiritualism the lack of good mediumship has been a recurrent lament.  But what do our spiritual counterparts have to say about things from their vantage point?
Noting I can tell that would fall within your parameters of Modern Spiritualism and its involvement with good mediumship.

Outside of Modern Spritualism, that's another subject entirely. sunny 
Given that this website is "SpiritualismLink,  A Forum for Spiritualists and those interested in learning more about the Religion, Philosophy, Science and Truth of the Spiritualist Movement" there's a primary focus here of Spiritualism.  

Outside of the 'Modern Spiritualism' framework is, to use your words, not where I chose to express my thoughts. If I had wanted to do that I likely would have used another website and another forum.

mac


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Re: Thoughts on Mediumship and Spiritualism from Od's comments

Post by mac on Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:07 am

The Od wrote:
mac wrote:
The Od wrote:

"We used to have an organising body"
We did mac, but they were deservedly bound to fail after they grabbed Findlay's magnificent offer without fulfilling their part of the bargain.
As is said: God - the Natural law - is not mocked.
Organizations propagate long term failure.
Isn't it people who are the problem rather than organisations?
Are there structured social bodies without people? Razz 
Of course not and nobody suggested there were. The organisation is less the problem than the people found in it - you must have understood my earlier meaning.

mac


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Re: Thoughts on Mediumship and Spiritualism from Od's comments

Post by The Od on Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:34 am

@obiwan

As a Clinical Hypnotherapist specializing in PLR, LBL, FLR and age regressions, spirit attachment identification release and deposession I and my clients would completely disagree with your assessment of the survival evidence conclusions of those therapies and experiences.
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Re: Thoughts on Mediumship and Spiritualism from Od's comments

Post by The Od on Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:38 am

mac wrote: 

Outside of the 'Modern Spiritualism' framework is, to use your words, not where I chose to express my thoughts.
If I had wanted to do that I likely would have used another website and another forum.[/color]
Excellent! Point this Od to that/those forums and let us continue on topic there! Like a Star @ heaven 
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Re: Thoughts on Mediumship and Spiritualism from Od's comments

Post by mac on Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:44 am

The Od wrote:
mac wrote: 

Outside of the 'Modern Spiritualism' framework is, to use your words, not where I chose to express my thoughts.
If I had wanted to do that I likely would have used another website and another forum.[/color]
Excellent! Point this Od to that/those forums and let us continue on topic there! Like a Star @ heaven 
You just go ahead without me. I'll sit out this time. The clock's ticking.

mac


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