Your opinion

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Re: Your opinion

Post by obiwan on Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:00 pm

Perhaps 'spiritualism' as a religion might best be considered as a human attempt to describe a set of phenomena and principles. Having said that I can't see that mediumship needs to have a religious element or implies the need for belief in a personal God, anymore than any other discovery about the way the universe operates. I am not saying that such a God doesn't exist, simply that I cannot see how mediumship implies it.

It could be I have missed it, but in my reading so far I can think of no purported communications from those who have passed on which make the existence of a personal all-powerful deity as presented by Christianity, Islam or Judaism a certainty. In fact, reading the communications from Silver Birch, it seems to me possible that the 'The Great Spirit' he refers to is nothing like the personal God described by the above religions and may not have a 'personality' in the human sense at all.

obiwan


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Re: Your opinion

Post by julie on Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:24 pm

I like the idea of being an atheist yet still beleiving in spiritualism it means one is an individual who makes choice based on free will rather than a set of doctrines.

julie


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Re: Your opinion

Post by hiorta on Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:32 pm

My own views on it, exactly.
The Natural Laws operate mechanically allowing for neither fear or favour, the material or ecclesiastical standing of the individual.
Soul quality seems to be the only thing that matters, along with individual motive.
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Re: Your opinion

Post by mac on Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:34 pm

"It could be I have missed it, but in my reading so far I can think of no purported communications from those who have passed on which make the existence of a personal all-powerful deity as presented by Christianity, Islam or Judaism a certainty. In fact, reading the communications from Silver Birch, it seems to me possible that the 'The Great Spirit' he refers to is nothing like the personal God described by the above religions and may not have a 'personality' in the human sense at all."

I've lost count of the times I've said that thinking in terms of a personal or personified god is a fruitless and misleading business. I accept, however, that many have no other frame of reference. They wriggle like a worm on a hook at the very suggestion that God isn't an individual let alone the male form of one!

It's often said that speaking about 'Him' is just shorthand but it get the impression that when folks see God in that way it so constrains their outlook that meaningful interchange becomes impossible.

Now don't ask me to say what God is because I'm just too thick for that but I do know what God isn't.





mac


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Re: Your opinion

Post by julie on Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:50 pm

I don't know I think I will always believe in Jesus but I've never felt indoctrinated by it by 'in jesus' i do not mean in some high church way just in an individual way. I dunno all I know is I am so glad I found this forum it has cleared my mind, I mean this country has never clarified spirituality has it ? the C o E had always been wishy washy. I could never understand why mediumship was just for the gifted we are all human are we not? therefore we must share the same traits and gifts.

I mean if one survives we all survive don't we? I wrote about Pantheism earlier on anyone heard of that?

julie


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Re: Your opinion

Post by hiorta on Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:16 pm

We all survive the change called 'death', as does ALL Life.
Pantheism seems to suggest that all things stem from 'god' and seems a reasonable view.
The cynical me knows that there is money in religion, but very little in spirituality, so it gets less attention.

Mediumship was viciously opposed by Christianity and exponents brutally murdered in publc festivals. They only spoke to their understanding of Truth.

There is much more here: http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/burning.html
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Re: Your opinion

Post by julie on Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:22 pm

oh ta for that yes it was a biblical thing wasn,t it?about the moneylenders tables being overthrown in the temple? ( I think)
And reincarnation?

julie


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Re: Your opinion

Post by hiorta on Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:50 pm

Reincarnation? There is a section on views on this topic which might be helpful in showing the range of possibilities. Understanding the great depth of this topic really begins with the question: Who am I? How did I get to where I now stand.
If you've a spare 30/40 years after that.....
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Re: Your opinion

Post by obiwan on Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:25 pm

To my mind, why we believe what we do is more important than belief itself. One can believe whatever one wishes however that doesn't make it correct necessarily. An internal conflict may arise when an attempt is made to explain our beliefs to those with a different view. In that situation, our reason for believing will be exposed and tested.

What we believe will not affect the reality of survival (or non-existence) but if we do survive, our beliefs may affect our perception of our new situation making it more difficult to adapt. On the other hand, just because we can't explain our beliefs doesn't mean they are therefore incorrect either.

My own strategy is to find as much information and evidence as I can and to try to remain open-minded until such time as I can be certain. I suspect, if we survive, this may take millennia Very Happy

obiwan


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Re: Your opinion

Post by julie on Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:56 am

Yup just read it many thanks for pointing that out. I've been reading Maurice Barbanell I don't get the impression ('Silver Birch his guide?) blbelieves in reincarnation However someone on here did mention that there are other worlds as rea l and solid as this one..... hope I haven't misinterpretated that

julie


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Re: Your opinion

Post by mac on Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:09 pm

julie wrote:Yup just read it many thanks for pointing that out. I've been reading Maurice Barbanell I don't get the impression ('Silver Birch his guide?) blbelieves in reincarnation However someone on here did mention that there are other worlds as rea l and solid as this one..... hope I haven't misinterpretated that

Oh I think you may have misunderstood if you're saying SB doesdidn't accept the notion of reincarnation. He said that he knew that some of his contemporaries declared that they'd never met anyone who had reincarnated but he himself had no doubt about the situation. Sorry I can't be verbatim on the point but I don't have the reference material from which to quote. It might be useful for you to read some of the compilations of SB teachings....

On your last point, although frequency doesn't necessarily imply authenticity, there are many, many accounts that the etheric dimensions are indeed just as solid and real to their inhabitants (these are real people - not diaphenous 'spirits') as our world feels to us.... That's most marked in the levels closest to our own, often called the Astral.

mac


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Re: Your opinion

Post by julie on Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:52 pm

i think i have still quite a bit of learning to do regarding the interpretation of the written word which is why i am in here Cool

julie


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Re: Your opinion

Post by julie on Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:03 pm

but if we all survive physical death where do we go? and what survives?

julie


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Re: Your opinion

Post by mac on Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:09 pm

julie wrote:i think i have still quite a bit of learning to do regarding the interpretation of the written word which is why i am in here Cool

This website (along with others) is a great place to expand your understanding. Very Happy

mac


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Re: Your opinion

Post by mac on Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:13 pm

julie wrote:but if we all survive physical death where do we go? and what survives?

We go back to where we came from. What survives is our soul, our spirit, whatever you think of when you think of the non-physical part of ourselves. A non-physical replica of our human form albeit it one which reflects us at the prime of our adult lives or as we would have been as adults if we didn't survive that long.....

mac


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Re: Your opinion

Post by julie on Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:17 pm

ta for that yes i had thought spiritually wise i didn't think we would be animated bodies Shocked
oh i just wish i could be reincarnated and start the whole glorious adventure again warts and all... cheers

julie


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Re: Your opinion

Post by mac on Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:37 pm

julie wrote:ta for that yes i had thought spiritually wise i didn't think we would be animated bodies Shocked
oh i just wish i could be reincarnated and start the whole glorious adventure again warts and all... cheers

I don't know your age but I'd say that you presently are in the very position you're longing for... What are you now but learning more of what you've chosen to do this time around?

This is the "whole glorious adventure" right now - didn't you realise that?

mac


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Re: Your opinion

Post by julie on Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:47 pm

OH I'm just remembering mad times like being in the middle of manchester at midnight singing child in time (deep Purple) at the top of me lungs, I was a 1970's headbanger still love me blues Pete Green and me rock Its the part where I was ill for a long time and couldn't get any neuro to believe I had epilepsy it was such a strange type of epilepsy psychic feelings etc wasn't till I moved south and found the major London hospitals who knew exactly what I had and it was the whole of my right brain that was damaged by a cyst or something now your right brain is apparently the psychic part of your brain the 'god' part well known by my the neuros I dealt with. it did leave me slightly angry but hey ho I haven't anything to moan about really. Trouble was I kept trying to explain dejavu's etc to ordinary Docs who wrote it all of a neurociss(sp)? oh i AM 51

julie


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Re: Your opinion

Post by mac on Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:55 pm

It's easy to ascribe psychic or spiritual values to physical occurrences as you've described but it ain't necessarily so.

Deja vu can have an altogether different explanation to those that wannabe past-life experiencers put about.

My own take on matters is that we'd do well not to place too much reliance on the flaky physical sensors which govern our interaction with this world when considering matters which are not of this world....

mac


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Re: Your opinion

Post by julie on Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:58 pm

Oh they knocked me sick they induced those fits again and again to Thin Lizzy those Neuros were rockin everywhere when the played the music and I was doubled up with the damned thing it wasn't nice. I was classed as a musicogenic they had heard of it but never come across it before and I have a hole in my skull where they had mapped my brain out to find what was causing it please feel free to google right temporal lobe epilepsy Evil or Very Mad That is why I am so interseted in Spiritualism cause It was so strange a feeling


Last edited by julie on Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:03 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : forgot to add right temporl epilepsy)

julie


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Re: Your opinion

Post by hiorta on Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:13 pm

"""but if we all survive physical death where do we go? and what survives?"""...Julie

What survives? We do. On this plane of illusion where the obvious is not always what it appears to be, we are spirits with bodies and not bodies with spirits.

www.nderf.org/ may be useful reading.
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Re: Your opinion

Post by julie on Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:16 pm

Thanks tis on me favourites Cool

julie


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Re: Your opinion

Post by mac on Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:19 pm

julie wrote:Oh they knocked me sick they induced those fits again and again to Thin Lizzy those Neuros were rockin everywhere when the played the music and I was doubled up with the damned thing it wasn't nice. I was classed as a musicogenic they had heard of it but never come across it before and I have a hole in my skull where they had mapped my brain out to find what was causing it please feel free to google right temporal lobe epilepsy Evil or Very Mad That is why I am so interseted in Spiritualism cause It was so strange a feeling

"That is why I am so interseted in Spiritualism cause It was so strange a feeling." I have to say I don't see any link between Modern Spiritualism and your condition.

mac


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Re: Your opinion

Post by julie on Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:20 pm

Oh no probabley not. I told you I am learning Wink

julie


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Re: Your opinion

Post by julie on Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:29 pm

I don't think I have been so devastated cos after that op I knew there had to be something more to life. I think you could have called it a crisis. Still all done and dusted now. sunny

julie


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