Beyond Spiritualism. www.cfpf.org/

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Beyond Spiritualism. www.cfpf.org/

Post by hiorta on Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:30 am

Consciousness as a Sub-Quantum Phenomenon.

Every qualified scientist who does the same as Sir Oliver Lodge- connects survival after death with subatomic physics, is immediately censored in Great Britain!

The work of Michael Faraday, the great scientist on the back of our 20 pound notes, connecting survival after death with subatomic physics, has also been censored:

"Nothing is too wonderful to be true, if it be consistent with the laws of nature."

The public do not know that the French Nobel Laureate for medical science, Professor Charles Richet, carried out the same repeatable experiments under laboratory conditions, proving survival after death, as Sir William Crookes FRS; Richet made this statement:
"There is ample proof that experimental materialisations should take definite rank as a scientific fact."

The Scottish pioneer of television, John Logie Baird, tells in his memoirs how one of his colleagues carried out an experiment where he took the fingerprints of a recently deceased person who materialised. These prints were identical to the ones on the dead physical body. This proof would have been good enough to hang somebody in Britain only a few years ago.

We have put the word out on the Internet for a fully developed materialisation medium to come forward and let our scientific team go in with John Logie Baird's infrared camera to film deceased people being physically reunited with their loved ones who are still on earth. To avoid the inevitable accusations of fraud from professional bigots, the filming will be carried out under auspices of a current Nobel Laureate for Physics. Those with a great deal to lose from the truth had to wait for Sir William Crookes to die before they had the courage to accuse him of fraud.

The British people are only allowed access to information that is harmless to orthodox, scientific teaching that says the mind and the brain are the same; that death is the end of everything. Qualified scientists who are adamant that we all survive death are never allowed on British television to balance the arguments of experts (psychologists) like Dr Susan Blackmore and Dr Richard Wiseman. Throwing out Christian Huygen's theory of the Ether (the "spirit" world), and replacing it with Einstein's Relativity, set scientific advancement back 100 years. Only one expert opinion is reaching the public in what is meant to be a free country.

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Re: Beyond Spiritualism. www.cfpf.org/

Post by MU!! on Sun Dec 23, 2012 5:08 am

hiorta, are you quoting or stating, I cannot tell from you post.

MU!!


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Re: Beyond Spiritualism. www.cfpf.org/

Post by hiorta on Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:19 am

My apologies to you.
The link was obscured. i was quoting from www.cfpf.org.uk/
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Post by MU!! on Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:50 pm

hiorta wrote:My apologies to you.
The link was obscured. i was quoting from www.cfpf.org.uk/
This is Ron Pearson's Sub-Quantum Phenomenon hypothesis I believe. Way over my head. scratch Roll aligns himself with Pearson using Pearson as his mathematical expressionists for the proof of the "ether" i.e. the substance that is alive and exists, is the basis for the creation of new matter, energy replenishment, that 96% which is often called nothingness or dark matter by materialists.


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Re: Beyond Spiritualism. www.cfpf.org/

Post by obiwan on Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:14 pm

It is curious that so much research seems to be ignored. On another forum someone quoted Blackmore as a scientific authority to be used to support the scoftics position but dismissed Oliver Lodge out of hand I found that position decidedly odd.

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Post by obiwan on Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:15 pm

I am not sure Ron Pearson has the credentials to be taken seriously by the scientific establishment. I think he is some kind of Engineer by profession, or was.

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Post by Admin on Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:57 pm

Quite right Obi that was his training, personally I was unsure about his hypothesis. My other concern was the linkage between Roll, Pearson and a certain David Icke who's ideas are as off the planet as the worst of the new age "channellers".
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Post by obiwan on Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:36 pm

Admin wrote:Quite right Obi that was his training, personally I was unsure about his hypothesis. My other concern was the linkage between Roll, Pearson and a certain David Icke who's ideas are as off the planet as the worst of the new age "channellers".
oh dear.

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Post by mac on Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:53 am

oh dear indeed...... scratch But David Icke was once a great goalkeeper so he can't be all bad!

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Re: Beyond Spiritualism. www.cfpf.org/

Post by obiwan on Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:00 am

mac wrote:oh dear indeed...... scratch But David Icke was once a great goalkeeper so he can't be all bad!
Plus turquoise is a very nice colour.

obiwan


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Re: Beyond Spiritualism. www.cfpf.org/

Post by mac on Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:06 pm

obiwan wrote:
mac wrote:oh dear indeed...... scratch But David Icke was once a great goalkeeper so he can't be all bad!
Plus turquoise is a very nice colour.

absolutely! Laughing

mac


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Re: Beyond Spiritualism. www.cfpf.org/

Post by MU!! on Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:37 pm

obiwan wrote:I am not sure Ron Pearson has the credentials to be taken seriously by the scientific establishment. I think he is some kind of Engineer by profession, or was.
It won't make any difference if he is a fiddler without a violin if his papers pass peer review in the scientific world.

There are other scientists at work on the Roll team but Mr. Roll faces several problems that cannot be solved by the most astute scientists on the planet.

1) Funding
2) Premise
3) Expectations
4) Approach
5) Comprehension

Mr. Roll's expectations are based on his premise, i.e. once an internationally known spirit is full form materialized in transparent ectoplasm (ala Ms. Goold) then the world will be finally resolved to the proof of the afterlife. No

Mainstream media will have nothing of this finding, the science community will bury it and it may be a hit virally on YouTube until the intelligence agencies step in and squash...any party involved as they deem fit.

He appears to be quite uninformed as to the present status of physical mediums having no knowledge of those within his own country much less active development in the Nordics and elsewhere. This is puzzling for a man who has been involved in his quest for over 30 years. Suspect

The only way that a scientific evaluation should progress, including the significant funds required to properly pull it off, is by the development of a written, legally binding agreement including any funds generated by such a project. How those funds will be used (non-profit), who gets paid what, what will be the distribution plan of the videographic and other evidences, how they will be distributed and a myriad of other considerations. All of which should be in place well before the first John Fitzgerald Kennedy emerges from formed ectoplasm.

Whether Mr. Roll is of the proclivity to understand and proceed along such a path remains to be seen. Until he does, he can expect that no one with serious funding will emerge.

Then we have two additional problems.

If there is an active scientific team in the spirit world as there was during the Leslie Flint era, I would think it would behoove anyone to make contact with this team and develop a relationship with specific goals in mind. not much sense in looking for Churchill to appear full form if Churchill has no interest and the mechanics for such a materialization are not in place on both planes.

The time may not be right. Unless the Creator has determined that the earthly plane of todays human beings are ready for such discoveries, Roll can roll out any project he wants and it will end in utter and complete failure. Maybe he should rethink why Rita Goold backed out in the 80s. Rolling Eyes

If I were Mr. Roll, I would begin with small steps such as simple communication with the spirit science team, drop requiring earth bound conditions to be met, be ready to wait years if not decades to make such premises happen and get myself an accountant and lawyer.


Last edited by MU!! on Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:17 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Beyond Spiritualism. www.cfpf.org/

Post by MU!! on Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:38 pm

obiwan wrote:It is curious that so much research seems to be ignored. On another forum someone quoted Blackmore as a scientific authority to be used to support the scoftics position but dismissed Oliver Lodge out of hand I found that position decidedly odd.
Obi, you are surprised that the world is full of morons? Laughing

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Post by MU!! on Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:55 pm

Q: And what a medium the Internet is. So what’s your ideal solution to this?

Michael: Keep telling the truth come what may and eventually public opinion will sweep away the religionists and materialists who have so much to lose from the secular scientific case for survival after death.

Roll On Spirit Today

"Public opinion" will never be allowed to form with any significant head of steam unless there is a global event that cannot be ignored by mainstream media, that will cause the public to demand that information that has obviously been purposefully hidden be brought forward (said global event exposes as much).

There is nothing wrong and everything right about truth-telling; what is wrong is misunderstanding how information is collected, verified and passed to the en masse...and how much of that information is properly culled and presented as worthwhile.

The Internet is so chock full of endless data that it is as great a place to disinform as it is to inform. Just because the information about the survival of death is at its height does not mean there are a plethora of educated, thinking students of survival evidence and the afterlife to make jelly from the orchards of fruits. study

OK, let me put it another way. In the movie Jurassic Park, there's a scene where a researcher sticks her hand in a pile of dinosaur shit, digs around, and pulls out an undigested berry. Most people will never discover a crap covered berry, many will see the price of digging through dung is way too high. geek


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Post by Admin on Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:23 pm

Hmm Rita Goold we have a tape of her somewhere on the forum. Of course Michael Roll would have been her biggest fan but I believe others had fairly serious queries about her. http://www.spiritualismlink.com/t1245-rita-goold-as-russel?highlight=rita+gould

Just one of the many problems when you try to contact Spirit in the dark, the reality is we are equal partners with Spirit in communicating, we give our time, energy and intent. It is pointless to be dictated to by guides who can place people in embarrassing situations such as that which Lincoln faced.

Still people say what Spirit tell them they must do without saying No that is inappropriate. Every time I demonstrate mediumship it is my last time if the communication does not work properly I will walk away. That is the agreement with the Spirit team I work with.

Work in the dark...no way...communication will happen or it will not but I will never agree to work in any way that could be compromised, a truly wise Spirit would never set you up in such a way.

Jim

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Post by Wes on Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:01 am

Admin wrote:

Still people say what Spirit tell them they must do without saying No that is inappropriate.


As Silver Birch said: "It's good to have an open mind but not an empty one."

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Post by obiwan on Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:05 am

Wes wrote:
Admin wrote:

Still people say what Spirit tell them they must do without saying No that is inappropriate.


As Silver Birch said: "It's good to have an open mind but not an empty one."

quite!

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Re: Beyond Spiritualism. www.cfpf.org/

Post by obiwan on Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:26 am

MU!! wrote:
obiwan wrote:I am not sure Ron Pearson has the credentials to be taken seriously by the scientific establishment. I think he is some kind of Engineer by profession, or was.
It won't make any difference if he is a fiddler without a violin if his papers pass peer review in the scientific world.

There are other scientists at work on the Roll team but Mr. Roll faces several problems that cannot be solved by the most astute scientists on the planet.

1) Funding
2) Premise
3) Expectations
4) Approach
5) Comprehension

6) Evidence

It's interesting that you mention Leslie Flint Mu!! I have read quite a bit about him and personally I think his form of mediumship is possibly the most evidential.

Where are the practitioners of mediumship of that calibre today? Without them any researcher is going to struggle. In my own search over the last 5 or more years the quality of 'evidence', if that is what one calls it has been uniformly appalling - and I am actually seeking it. As opposed to the vast majority who have no idea what mediums have apparently been capable of in the past.

I don't think Ron will get a chance to have material peer reviewed because the folk who he'd need to do it probably don't view him as their peer.

obiwan


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Re: Beyond Spiritualism. www.cfpf.org/

Post by obiwan on Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:32 am

MU!! wrote:
obiwan wrote:It is curious that so much research seems to be ignored. On another forum someone quoted Blackmore as a scientific authority to be used to support the scoftics position but dismissed Oliver Lodge out of hand I found that position decidedly odd.
Obi, you are surprised that the world is full of morons? Laughing

I'm not sure I'd classify the folks we're referring to as morons lol. The information isn't hard to find and there is a lot of it. I suspect in many cases it is a deliberate unwillingness to look at the research. Also, understanding it does require a degree of application, which presupposes a genuine interest. Perhaps that's in short supply.

It is sometimes difficult to engage scoftics in debate about research because they often haven't and won't read the material. Perfectly happy to slag William Crookes off, never read any of his work. Sad really.

I think it's more wilful ignorance.

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Post by Admin on Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:58 am

I agree Obi, they ignore all the very great minds that researched it and found truth. Lodge, Crookes, Cox, Osty, Richet, Warcollier, Flournoy, Flammarion, Tischner, Maxwell, etc etc too many to mention in full
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truth

Post by louie p on Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:54 pm

listen and you will hear, look and you will see


Last edited by louie p on Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:56 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : mistake)

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Post by MU!! on Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:50 pm

Admin wrote:Hmm Rita Goold we have a tape of her somewhere on the forum. Of course Michael Roll would have been her biggest fan but I believe others had fairly serious queries about her. http://www.spiritualismlink.com/t1245-rita-goold-as-russel?highlight=rita+gould
Thanks for the link but what in the world was that squeaky junk? rendeer

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Re: Beyond Spiritualism. www.cfpf.org/

Post by MU!! on Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:04 pm

obiwan wrote:
It's interesting that you mention Leslie Flint Mu!! I have read quite a bit about him and personally I think his form of mediumship is possibly the most evidential.

Both his form and his evidential history, Obi with possibly the full form materialization, one who can be touched and handled like any human being, of a highly and easily recognizable individual who presents evidence unknown to anyone except that individual which can be later shown true. This is what Roll is shooting for in a roundabout way.

Practically, IDV with such evidences, which can be found repeatedly in the Flint recordings, is most favorable.

obiwan wrote:Where are the practitioners of mediumship of that calibre today? Without them any researcher is going to struggle. In my own search over the last 5 or more years the quality of 'evidence', if that is what one calls it has been uniformly appalling - and I am actually seeking it. As opposed to the vast majority who have no idea what mediums have apparently been capable of in the past.

I don't think Ron will get a chance to have material peer reviewed because the folk who he'd need to do it probably don't view him as their peer.
No doubt there is a lack of physical mediums who provide quality, provable survival evidence. IMO, one will have to emerge from outside of public view and the chances of that happening are unknown although I would bet they are diminishing not increasing as time goes by.

Pearson and Roll have a couple of Nobel quality scientists to do their controls and citations but this is over my head and I believe, in all practicality, it's a moot point. I told Roll this and why.

Mainstream media will cap off any coverage of such a revelatory experience as Roll seeks, there is too much art stake in the energy delivery and creation businesses alone to allow it.

MU!!


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Re: Beyond Spiritualism. www.cfpf.org/

Post by MU!! on Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:13 pm

Admin wrote:I agree Obi, they ignore all the very great minds that researched it and found truth. Lodge, Crookes, Cox, Osty, Richet, Warcollier, Flournoy, Flammarion, Tischner, Maxwell, etc etc too many to mention in full
They do, Jim, or they claim old science isn't new science and partly that is true. We have much greater capacity for investigation and conclusion today but what does it matter? There is nothing to investigate. pale

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Post by bravo321uk on Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:40 pm

There is plenty to investigate, But it does depend on the attitude of the investigator I suppose. I think in the past investigators were more willing to investigate with, rather than against.. Often it is said that the attitude of Mediums has changed which stops investigation, but I also think the attitude of the investigators has changed too.. Which stops the mediums coming forward.

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