The Great Spirit

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The Great Spirit

Post by hiorta on Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:32 am

There have been many attempts to reduce 'Perfection' to explanation in mere words, though for me, Silver Birch does an excellent job of it.

The hymn by the American Lizzie Doten, seemingly a classic in its genre, also encapsulates the depth, majesty and grandeur of the All-Encompassing.

In a book of her poetry dated 1846, this poem was in Part Two and ran to 15 verses, though the abridged 3 verses convey and elevate:

God of the granite. (Lizzie Doten)

God of the granite and the rose
Soul of the sparrow and the bee
The mighty tide of Being runs
Through countless channels, Lord, from Thee.
It leaps to life in grass and flowers
Through every grade of being runs
Till from creations radiant towers
Its glory flames in stars and suns.

O, ye who sit and gaze on Life
With folded hands and fettered will
Who only see, amid the strife,
The dark supremacy of ill –
Know that, like birds and streams and flowers
The life that moves you is Divine
Nor time nor space, nor human powers
Your godlike spirit can confine.

God of the granite and the rose
Soul of the sparrow and the bee
The mighty tide of Being flows
through all thy creatures back to thee.
Thus round and round the circle runs –
A mighty tide without a shore –
While men and angels, stars and suns,
Unite to praise thee evermore.

An extract from the poem ‘The Revelation’ a 15 verse poem
From part two of her book, ‘Poems from the Inner life’ 1864

I have heard this sung so many times in different churches, each time it brought a vibrant surge of invigorating energy to the congregation as it was sung with gusto, rather than with sedate politeness. (I'm not sure if 'with gusto' is a culinary, gastronomic or musical term, but it seems apt in the circumstance)

I once attempted to try to raise a discussion about Lizzie on an American site and was very surprised at the lack of interest in her abilities, almost to the point of indifference - then I realised why: this hymn relegates theology to its rightful place as it tries to reveal the Great Spirit in Natural magnificence, pervading all Life with its benign presence, requiring neither worship or imprecation, verbal adoration, ritual or ceremony.

Which further opens the understanding of quality Mediumship.
As well as providing evidence that Life survives physical death, Mediumship can offer guidance, deepen understanding of Life's complexities, lead the mind to insight into infinity and in its early days of touching the individual, point to Life holding far greater possibilities well beyond physical limitations.



Last edited by hiorta on Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:03 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : superfluous word)
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Re: The Great Spirit

Post by mac on Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:44 pm

"I once attempted to try to raise a discussion about Lizzie on an American site and was very surprised at the lack of interest...."

I am a regular contributor on a predominantly North American website where any of my references to Modern Spiritualism - even in the fundamental context of survival - would be as well understood had I been able to make it in a foreign language. Pick your own language as in the US most are foreign it seems, even with around 50% of its population being Spanish speakers! Maybe it's just me and my own inability to communicate? I digress....

Despite my many misgivings about US websites, I am assured by a discarnate (who may be accessed through a family member who is herself a website member) that Spiritualism still has something to offer in the years ahead - I'm paraphrasing but that was the gist and I'm heartened to hear that our unseen friends feel that our movement has something more to offer.

Both Silver Birch and Lizzie Dotten may still reach those who can benefit from their words.... Smile

mac


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Re: The Great Spirit

Post by Mark74 on Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:31 pm

Excellent extract, hiorta. Thank you for sharing. Mention Lizzie Doten nowadays and the majority would be clueless. Shame isn't it. Doubt we will ever see her kind again.


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Re: The Great Spirit

Post by equal-spirit on Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:19 am

mac wrote:I am a regular contributor on a predominantly North American website where any of my references to Modern Spiritualism - even in the fundamental context of survival - would be as well understood had I been able to make it in a foreign language. Pick your own language as in the US most are foreign it seems, even with around 50% of its population being Spanish speakers! Maybe it's just me and my own inability to communicate? I digress....

Despite my many misgivings about US websites, I am assured by a discarnate (who may be accessed through a family member who is herself a website member) that Spiritualism still has something to offer in the years ahead - I'm paraphrasing but that was the gist and I'm heartened to hear that our unseen friends feel that our movement has something more to offer.

I'm not sure about pre-WW II US, but since then the US has consistently scored at or near the bottom of scholastic abilities among the Western Nations. So in a country where Presidents can wage wars and make deals that Congress has already said no to, and then get re-elected, you really cannot expect "comprehension" can you?
As for Spiritualism making a contribution, I hope so with this caveat... please not any of the darker versions of Spiritualism. (British Spiritualism has the Seven Principles... The US version of Spiritualism has a more Christian Philosophy... It continues to degrade thereafter.)

equal-spirit


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Re: The Great Spirit

Post by obiwan on Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:27 am

equal-spirit wrote:
mac wrote:I am a regular contributor on a predominantly North American website where any of my references to Modern Spiritualism - even in the fundamental context of survival - would be as well understood had I been able to make it in a foreign language. Pick your own language as in the US most are foreign it seems, even with around 50% of its population being Spanish speakers! Maybe it's just me and my own inability to communicate? I digress....

Despite my many misgivings about US websites, I am assured by a discarnate (who may be accessed through a family member who is herself a website member) that Spiritualism still has something to offer in the years ahead - I'm paraphrasing but that was the gist and I'm heartened to hear that our unseen friends feel that our movement has something more to offer.

I'm not sure about pre-WW II US, but since then the US has consistently scored at or near the bottom of scholastic abilities among the Western Nations. So in a country where Presidents can wage wars and make deals that Congress has already said no to, and then get re-elected, you really cannot expect "comprehension" can you?
As for Spiritualism making a contribution, I hope so with this caveat... please not any of the darker versions of Spiritualism. (British Spiritualism has the Seven Principles... The US version of Spiritualism has a more Christian Philosophy... It continues to degrade thereafter.)
sounds like you're stereotyping an entire country here.

obiwan


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Re: The Great Spirit

Post by mac on Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:31 am

"As for Spiritualism making a contribution, I hope so with this caveat... please not any of the darker versions of Spiritualism. (British Spiritualism has the Seven Principles... The US version of Spiritualism has a more Christian Philosophy... It continues to degrade thereafter.)"

If I have understood what's written here, it's being suggested that the Brit version of Modern Spiritualism is one of, quote, "...the darker versions of Spiritualism." with degradation (via the US version) towards other, unspecified versions. Will you clarify which they are please and which version is deemed to be the least objectionable?

I think it's also important to keep in mind why The Seven Principles represent the formal structure of the religion of Spiritualism and also to consider that Spiritualism isn't only the formalised structure.

I'm a Spiritualist but neither The Seven Principles, nor the SNU (not mentioned thus far) have any great importance for me.

mac


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Re: The Great Spirit

Post by Admin on Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:32 am

equal-spirit wrote:
mac wrote:I am a regular contributor on a predominantly North American website where any of my references to Modern Spiritualism - even in the fundamental context of survival - would be as well understood had I been able to make it in a foreign language. Pick your own language as in the US most are foreign it seems, even with around 50% of its population being Spanish speakers! Maybe it's just me and my own inability to communicate? I digress....

Despite my many misgivings about US websites, I am assured by a discarnate (who may be accessed through a family member who is herself a website member) that Spiritualism still has something to offer in the years ahead - I'm paraphrasing but that was the gist and I'm heartened to hear that our unseen friends feel that our movement has something more to offer.

I'm not sure about pre-WW II US, but since then the US has consistently scored at or near the bottom of scholastic abilities among the Western Nations. So in a country where Presidents can wage wars and make deals that Congress has already said no to, and then get re-elected, you really cannot expect "comprehension" can you?
As for Spiritualism making a contribution, I hope so with this caveat... please not any of the darker versions of Spiritualism. (British Spiritualism has the Seven Principles... The US version of Spiritualism has a more Christian Philosophy... It continues to degrade thereafter.)

Absolute bosh equal-spirit your apparent certainty in your posts is very seriously negated by the lack of understanding and knowledge. I am also upset that you should so belittle an entire nation like the USA. The NSAC's principles are not more Christian at all and there is no "darker spiritualism". Please think more before posting on here, luckily this is in general chat so I will leave your post intact but I will be editing/deleting posts in more important areas of the forum shortly.
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Re: The Great Spirit

Post by equal-spirit on Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:58 am

Admin wrote:Absolute bosh equal-spirit your apparent certainty in your posts is very seriously negated by the lack of understanding and knowledge. I am also upset that you should so belittle an entire nation like the USA. The NSAC's principles are not more Christian at all and there is no "darker spiritualism". Please think more before posting on here, luckily this is in general chat so I will leave your post intact but I will be editing/deleting posts in more important areas of the forum shortly.
I did some research, and you are right... what I said was quite incorrect. I cannot properly explain to you why my absolute certainty was incorrect, but from now on I'll stick to reading and maybe asking questions if I don't understand something.

PS: If you want to delete any of my other "absolutely certain but incorrect" posts go ahead.

equal-spirit


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Re: The Great Spirit

Post by mac on Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:30 pm

equal-spirit wrote:
Admin wrote:Absolute bosh equal-spirit your apparent certainty in your posts is very seriously negated by the lack of understanding and knowledge. I am also upset that you should so belittle an entire nation like the USA. The NSAC's principles are not more Christian at all and there is no "darker spiritualism". Please think more before posting on here, luckily this is in general chat so I will leave your post intact but I will be editing/deleting posts in more important areas of the forum shortly.
I did some research, and you are right... what I said was quite incorrect. I cannot properly explain to you why my absolute certainty was incorrect, but from now on I'll stick to reading and maybe asking questions if I don't understand something.

PS: If you want to delete any of my other "absolutely certain but incorrect" posts go ahead.

I think it's important for context that such postings remain in the thread.

I'm astonished that you could say what you did (after 20 years of feeling you're a Spiritualist) and then glibly admit you saw - after "minimal research" - that you'd got it wrong. Man I make mistakes at times and have to back-track and apologise, usually when I've failed to understand, or properly read, what's been posted. Carelessness rather than fundamental misunderstanding.....

Your "mistake" was a doozy though.

mac


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Re: The Great Spirit

Post by eveshi on Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:42 pm

equal-spirit wrote: As for Spiritualism making a contribution, I hope so with this caveat... please not any of the darker versions of Spiritualism. (British Spiritualism has the Seven Principles... The US version of Spiritualism has a more Christian Philosophy... It continues to degrade thereafter.)

I'm a 26-year-old guy without a degree living in the Uk from Germany

The proper motive for using the talent of mediumship is to help people deal with their grief, and perhaps to remove barriers to their faith in an afterlife. Mediumship can only provide, at best, a kind of “natural knowledge” of the afterlife which should be completed by Scripture and the teachings of the Church. However, if knowing that a loved one is okay gives comfort to a grieving person, I see no problem for a Christian medium to contact the dead loved one for that reason. Or if someone who is agonizing over doubts about faith comes to a medium, the communication with the dead can at least remove one major barrier to accepting the fullness of Christian faith.

If there was no Christianity, there would have been no Spiritualism. Degraded, yes or not. Spiritualism has become a second-rate religion.

eveshi


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Re: The Great Spirit

Post by eveshi on Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:45 pm

mac wrote:[i]" I'm a Spiritualist but neither The Seven Principles, nor the SNU (not mentioned thus far) have any great importance for me.

SNU OK, that I can see. A Spiritualist who picks to not hold dear the 7 principles is no Spiritualist but you may call yourself whatever you wish.

eveshi


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Re: The Great Spirit

Post by Admin on Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:11 pm

eveshi wrote:
equal-spirit wrote: As for Spiritualism making a contribution, I hope so with this caveat... please not any of the darker versions of Spiritualism. (British Spiritualism has the Seven Principles... The US version of Spiritualism has a more Christian Philosophy... It continues to degrade thereafter.)

I'm a 26-year-old guy without a degree living in the Uk from Germany

The proper motive for using the talent of mediumship is to help people deal with their grief, and perhaps to remove barriers to their faith in an afterlife. Mediumship can only provide, at best, a kind of “natural knowledge” of the afterlife which should be completed by Scripture and the teachings of the Church. However, if knowing that a loved one is okay gives comfort to a grieving person, I see no problem for a Christian medium to contact the dead loved one for that reason. Or if someone who is agonizing over doubts about faith comes to a medium, the communication with the dead can at least remove one major barrier to accepting the fullness of Christian faith.

If there was no Christianity, there would have been no Spiritualism. Degraded, yes or not. Spiritualism has become a second-rate religion.

True eveshi but people who wish to write about their own versions of Spiritualism should consider what this forum describes itself to be. Most members are long term followers of Modern Spiritualism, This is not Christian because on the whole the church rejects what we do as evil. Yes even atheists are today mediums so anyone can be a Medium but on this forum the mediums are Spiritualists and we follow a worthwhile and fully developed philosophy which most of the younger people have never looked at properly, In addition their woeful lack of accurate knowledge of Spiritualism, its history and philosophy makes the criticisms raised meaningless.

Jim
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Re: The Great Spirit

Post by mac on Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:08 am

eveshi wrote:
mac wrote:" I'm a Spiritualist but neither The Seven Principles, nor the SNU (not mentioned thus far) have any great importance for me.

SNU OK, that I can see. A Spiritualist who picks to not hold dear the 7 principles is no Spiritualist but you may call yourself whatever you wish.

I will call myself a Modern Spiritualist and your view on my status counts zilch.

Neither I nor any other individual choosing to call herself/himself a [i]Spiritualist
, is required by anybody, or any body or organisation, to hold dear The Seven Principles. It's a choice we can make for ourselves without anyone else's approval. Rolling Eyes

Seems you have a somewhat jaundiced view on what a Spiritualist is - there are no rules or regulations even though you appear to think there should be to qualify as one. Rolling Eyes


Last edited by mac on Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:08 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : won't reformat properly but you get my points)

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Re: The Great Spirit

Post by mac on Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:14 am

eveshi wrote:
equal-spirit wrote: As for Spiritualism making a contribution, I hope so with this caveat... please not any of the darker versions of Spiritualism. (British Spiritualism has the Seven Principles... The US version of Spiritualism has a more Christian Philosophy... It continues to degrade thereafter.)

I'm a 26-year-old guy without a degree living in the Uk from Germany

The proper motive for using the talent of mediumship is to help people deal with their grief, and perhaps to remove barriers to their faith in an afterlife. Mediumship can only provide, at best, a kind of “natural knowledge” of the afterlife which should be completed by Scripture and the teachings of the Church. However, if knowing that a loved one is okay gives comfort to a grieving person, I see no problem for a Christian medium to contact the dead loved one for that reason. Or if someone who is agonizing over doubts about faith comes to a medium, the communication with the dead can at least remove one major barrier to accepting the fullness of Christian faith.

If there was no Christianity, there would have been no Spiritualism. Degraded, yes or not. Spiritualism has become a second-rate religion.

I note you say you have no degree but fail to see why that has any relevance Question

You are very prescriptive about how mediumship should be used - what makes you think you actually know the reasons? Rolling Eyes

You need to learn more and dictate less it seems to me...... Are you a Spiritualist or just someone sounding off? Honesty would be appreciated although I fancy we'll reach our own conclusions soon enough....

mac


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Re: The Great Spirit

Post by hiorta on Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:38 am

Definitions of any 'ism' are not much help in spreading light, being a shorthand for a concept which inevitably alters as knowledge expands.
Basically, if we have been fortunate to have had proof of individuals known to us surviving physical death, then our next thought would profitably be: If we do survive death, how then, should we live?
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Re: The Great Spirit

Post by Wes on Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:13 am

I see the 7 principles as a great starting point for a spiritual journey, but their archaic and clumsy wording are not doing spiritualism any favours when it comes to attracting the interest of people today. For example my partner automatically switches off at any mention of "god" plus "fatherhood" & "brotherhood" don't do much for her either.

It's also impossible for me to hold dear any principle that implies punishment. I can cope with learning and enlightenment, but not retribution.

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Re: The Great Spirit

Post by obiwan on Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:42 am

I suppose it depends how one sees retribution. If it is the consequence of decisions we make then it's probably inevitable.

I still don't understand how on the one hand survival is supposed to be a natural progression such as growth and on the other, why there is any need to make a religion of it.

obiwan


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Re: The Great Spirit

Post by equal-spirit on Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:25 pm

Wes wrote:I see the 7 principles as a great starting point for a spiritual journey, but their archaic and clumsy wording are not doing spiritualism any favours when it comes to attracting the interest of people today. For example my partner automatically switches off at any mention of "god" plus "fatherhood" & "brotherhood" don't do much for her either.

It's also impossible for me to hold dear any principle that implies punishment. I can cope with learning and enlightenment, but not retribution.
obiwan wrote:I suppose it depends how one sees retribution. If it is the consequence of decisions we make then it's probably inevitable.

I still don't understand how on the one hand survival is supposed to be a natural progression such as growth and on the other, why there is any need to make a religion of it.
While the Seven Principles are important, you have to realize they were written by people who were both heavily influenced by Christianity and by a male dominated society, and the words that were used were almost an archaic form of English even then. If they make you feel uncomfortable, then just rewrite them to suit a more modern viewpoint.

Also, another way of saying compensation and retribution is "credits and debits." Retribution is not "punishment" but instead opportunities to fix/heal negative situations that could have been handled better and where a spiritual debit is owed.

Finally, there is a fine line between a religion and a "philosophy for living." It gets even more indistinct when the Spiritualist Philosophy is heavily influenced by practitioners whose spiritual background is based upon a religion. So while there is no need for some to turn the Spiritualist Philosophy into a religion, for others there is a great need to do so and to make it mirror the religion they gave up.

equal-spirit


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Re: The Great Spirit

Post by mac on Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:15 pm

hiorta wrote:Definitions of any 'ism' are not much help in spreading light, being a shorthand for a concept which inevitably alters as knowledge expands.
Basically, if we have been fortunate to have had proof of individuals known to us surviving physical death, then our next thought would profitably be: If we do survive death, how then, should we live?

I speak less now than I used to about death and survival but when responding to enquirers I often include something along the lines of "learning about life, death and life-beyond-death......" I try to stress the aspect that knowing about survival etc. is only one part of the overall picture but one that may greatly influence the way we look at just about everything that happens in life.

That's certainly been the impact of my own learning.

mac


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Re: The Great Spirit

Post by rammaq on Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:10 pm

@ Admin:

I'm the user "eveshi" from the mind-energy.net forum (I can prove this, e. g. by posting a text of your choice on the forum). The person who posted in this topic under the name "eveshi" is not me, but a very troubled individual that is currently impersonating me on various websites (Michael Prescott's blog, Michael Tymn's blog, The Daily Grail, possibly others).

I'd appreciate it if you could do something about this.

If you need further information or validation that I'm really "eveshi", just ask.

Thank you!

rammaq


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Re: The Great Spirit

Post by mac on Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:00 pm

rammaq wrote:@ Admin:

I'm the user "eveshi" from the mind-energy.net forum (I can prove this, e. g. by posting a text of your choice on the forum). The person who posted in this topic under the name "eveshi" is not me, but a very troubled individual that is currently impersonating me on various websites (Michael Prescott's blog, Michael Tymn's blog, The Daily Grail, possibly others).

I'd appreciate it if you could do something about this.

If you need further information or validation that I'm really "eveshi", just ask.

Thank you!

I know what it's like to have this happen as it happened to me too elsewhere. I hope our website owner can help you.

mac


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Re: The Great Spirit

Post by rammaq on Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:08 pm

mac wrote:I know what it's like to have this happen as it happened to me too elsewhere. I hope our website owner can help you.
Hi mac,

yes, I'm aware that you got faked as well (on the mind-energy.net forum). I think it was probably the same person who is now faking me.

rammaq


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Re: The Great Spirit

Post by mac on Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:50 pm

It was once said that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery so maybe we should feel flattered? Seriously, though, I don't want to be flattered and I dislike individuals masquerading as me, whatever their motive.

I hope Jim (admin) will follow this business up and block this unwanted new member.

mac


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Re: The Great Spirit

Post by obiwan on Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:53 pm

It's all rather pathetic really isn't it?

obiwan


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Re: The Great Spirit

Post by mac on Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:56 pm

obiwan wrote:It's all rather pathetic really isn't it?

I think that sums it up well, obi..... a sad individual with a sad life maybe.

mac


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