I really need help

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Re: I really need help

Post by normy on Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:09 am


Technically, Spiritualism, as found in the SNU Churches or Centres, is a recognised religion within the law. It has it's own Ministers, and you can state it as your religion if you want to, on census forms.
The First Principle, the Fatherhood of God, can be interpreted in any way you want, for example a personal God, Nature, Great Spirit, First Cause etc etc.
It is a unique religion, because it's Principles can accept those people with any other religion, or none. There are no dogmas, providing that you believe that the spirit world is a reality, and we should lead a 'good life' (hard to define) as the Principles suggest.

I am a Modern Spiritualist as mac would say, and I regard it as a way of life more than anything, not a God-centred religion. I choose to enter Spiritualism on census forms as my religion, because it is the closest to what I believe is the truth about our human condition, although I am not a regular Spiritualist Church attender.


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normy


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Re: I really need help

Post by obiwan on Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:20 am

mac wrote:
obiwan wrote:If I understand mac correctly he is saying

1) since the basis of spiritualism is supposed to be evidence for survival, there's no need to 'believe' since it is (so spiritualists say) possible to know survival is a fact.

2) unlike most mainstream religions, there is no need to adhere to a set creed - though there are certain principles. One can be a spiritualist and still hold on to other religious beliefs, associations and practices (provided you can reconcile them in your own mind).

Was I close Mac?


ps I am not a Spiritualist
?
You're close obiwan Smile And closer than some who say they are Spiritualists!
.. But no cigar? Smile

obiwan


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Re: I really need help

Post by mac on Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:26 am

obiwan wrote:
mac wrote:
obiwan wrote:If I understand mac correctly he is saying

1) si...............concile them in your own mind).

Was I close Mac?


ps I am not a Spiritualist
?
You're close obiwan Smile And closer than some who say they are Spiritualists!
.. But no cigar? Smile

I wouldn't put such temptation your way.... Laughing

mac


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Re: I really need help

Post by obiwan on Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:34 am

mac wrote:
obiwan wrote:
mac wrote:
obiwan wrote:If I understand mac correctly he is saying

1) si...............concile them in your own mind).

Was I close Mac?


ps I am not a Spiritualist
?
You're close obiwan Smile And closer than some who say they are Spiritualists!
.. But no cigar? Smile

I wouldn't put such temptation your way.... Laughing
Lmao
I can resist anything but temptation.

obiwan


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Re: I really need help

Post by Kavon85 on Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:53 pm

normy wrote:
Technically, Spiritualism, as found in the SNU Churches or Centres, is a recognised religion within the law. It has it's own Ministers, and you can state it as your religion if you want to, on census forms.
The First Principle, the Fatherhood of God, can be interpreted in any way you want, for example a personal God, Nature, Great Spirit, First Cause etc etc.
It is a unique religion, because it's Principles can accept those people with any other religion, or none. There are no dogmas, providing that you believe that the spirit world is a reality, and we should lead a 'good life' (hard to define) as the Principles suggest.

I am a Modern Spiritualist as mac would say, and I regard it as a way of life more than anything, not a God-centred religion. I choose to enter Spiritualism on census forms as my religion, because it is the closest to what I believe is the truth about our human condition, although I am not a regular Spiritualist Church attender.



Here is something else I am struggling with. I believe that not matter what kind of life we live on earth we will all go to "heaven" anything done here stays here because it wasn't who we really are. Our soul would not suffer for what the mind does. I read recently on a spiritualism site that if you are an "evil" person on earth you will experience that negativity in the after life. is this true??

Kavon85


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Re: I really need help

Post by mac on Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:17 pm

Kavon85 wrote:
normy wrote:
Technically, Spiritualism, as found in the SNU Churches or Centres, is a recognised religion within the law. It has it's own Ministers, and you can state it as your religion if you want to, on census forms.
The First Principle, the Fatherhood of God, can be interpreted in any way you want, for example a personal God, Nature, Great Spirit, First Cause etc etc.
It is a unique religion, because it's Principles can accept those people with any other religion, or none. There are no dogmas, providing that you believe that the spirit world is a reality, and we should lead a 'good life' (hard to define) as the Principles suggest.

I am a Modern Spiritualist as mac would say, and I regard it as a way of life more than anything, not a God-centred religion. I choose to enter Spiritualism on census forms as my religion, because it is the closest to what I believe is the truth about our human condition, although I am not a regular Spiritualist Church attender.



Here is something else I am struggling with. I believe that not matter what kind of life we live on earth we will all go to "heaven" anything done here stays here because it wasn't who we really are. Our soul would not suffer for what the mind does. I read recently on a spiritualism site that if you are an "evil" person on earth you will experience that negativity in the after life. is this true??

I outlined that the difference between Modern Spiritualism and spiritualism in my earlier piece and I'm getting the impression you're talking about the latter rather than the former. And I notice that you're not responding to points made but simply heading off on another tack.

I hope you're not a tire-kicker......

mac


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Re: I really need help

Post by Kavon85 on Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:31 pm

mac wrote:
Kavon85 wrote:
normy wrote:
Technically, Spiritualism, as found in the SNU Churches or Centres, is a recognised religion within the law. It has it's own Ministers, and you can state it as your religion if you want to, on census forms.
The First Principle, the Fatherhood of God, can be interpreted in any way you want, for example a personal God, Nature, Great Spirit, First Cause etc etc.
It is a unique religion, because it's Principles can accept those people with any other religion, or none. There are no dogmas, providing that you believe that the spirit world is a reality, and we should lead a 'good life' (hard to define) as the Principles suggest.

I am a Modern Spiritualist as mac would say, and I regard it as a way of life more than anything, not a God-centred religion. I choose to enter Spiritualism on census forms as my religion, because it is the closest to what I believe is the truth about our human condition, although I am not a regular Spiritualist Church attender.


A tire kicker?

Here is something else I am struggling with. I believe that not matter what kind of life we live on earth we will all go to "heaven" anything done here stays here because it wasn't who we really are. Our soul would not suffer for what the mind does. I read recently on a spiritualism site that if you are an "evil" person on earth you will experience that negativity in the after life. is this true??

I outlined that the difference between Modern Spiritualism and spiritualism in my earlier piece and I'm getting the impression you're talking about the latter rather than the former. And I notice that you're not responding to points made but simply heading off on another tack.

I hope you're not a tire-kicker......

Kavon85


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Re: I really need help

Post by Kavon85 on Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:36 pm

I have questions I'm reading what your saying. This is how I learn and understand things I ask a lot of questions. So, if it bothers you I will find someone else to help me. I am not trying to bother anyone

Kavon85


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Re: I really need help

Post by mac on Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:45 pm

Kavon85 wrote:I have questions I'm reading what your saying. This is how I learn and understand things I ask a lot of questions. So, if it bothers you I will find someone else to help me. I am not trying to bother anyone

I, too, ask many questions but I always feed back to those who've made the effort to respond to mine....

mac


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Re: I really need help

Post by Kavon85 on Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:46 pm

mac wrote:
Kavon85 wrote:I have questions I'm reading what your saying. This is how I learn and understand things I ask a lot of questions. So, if it bothers you I will find someone else to help me. I am not trying to bother anyone

I, too, ask many questions but I always feed back to those who've made the effort to respond to mine....

I am not completely understand what you are saying. I cannot comment on something I am not grasping.

Kavon85


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Re: I really need help

Post by mac on Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:50 pm

Kavon85 wrote:
mac wrote:
Kavon85 wrote:I have questions I'm reading what your saying. This is how I learn and understand things I ask a lot of questions. So, if it bothers you I will find someone else to help me. I am not trying to bother anyone

I, too, ask many questions but I always feed back to those who've made the effort to respond to mine....

I am not completely understand what you are saying. I cannot comment on something I am not grasping.

I had already answered points you said you didn't understand. If you don't understand something then by all means say what it is you don't follow.

But why introduce another issue before you've understood the earlier ones?


mac


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Re: I really need help

Post by Kavon85 on Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:53 pm

mac wrote:
Kavon85 wrote:
mac wrote:
Kavon85 wrote:I have questions I'm reading what your saying. This is how I learn and understand things I ask a lot of questions. So, if it bothers you I will find someone else to help me. I am not trying to bother anyone

I, too, ask many questions but I always feed back to those who've made the effort to respond to mine....

I am not completely understand what you are saying. I cannot comment on something I am not grasping.

I had already answered points you said you didn't understand. If you don't understand something then by all means say what it is you don't follow.

But why introduce another issue before you've understood the earlier ones?


I am trying to understand the basics of a spiritualist beliefs in the simplest terms possible. And when i saw that this morning i just thought id ask before i forgot

Kavon85


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Re: I really need help

Post by mac on Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:00 pm

There must be dozens of issues you'll read about in online forums. If one flits from one to another without first grasping the fundamentals then they're likely to remain baffling. Kinda like trying to do advanced maths when you haven't grasped the basics.


mac


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Re: I really need help

Post by Kavon85 on Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:17 pm

mac wrote:There must be dozens of issues you'll read about in online forums. If one flits from one to another without first grasping the fundamentals then they're likely to remain baffling. Kinda like trying to do advanced maths when you haven't grasped the basics.


Would you mind explaining the basics to me?

Kavon85


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Re: I really need help

Post by mac on Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:51 pm

Kavon85 wrote:
mac wrote:There must be dozens of issues you'll read about in online forums. If one flits from one to another without first grasping the fundamentals then they're likely to remain baffling. Kinda like trying to do advanced maths when you haven't grasped the basics.


Would you mind explaining the basics to me?

The basics are simple. Firstly an understanding and acceptance of the fact that we survive corporeal death and live in a dimension different from the one we live in now. Secondly those who are said to be dead will sometimes return to make their survival known by communicating through a mediumship with those they still love, alive in this physical world. They are the fundamentals of Spiritualism. Beyond them we can consider all manner of other issues including the one you mentioned but before them I consider it important that a good grasp of the fundamentals is achieved.

If you've already accepted those then why not consider the following ways to broaden what you already know. Increase your understanding by studying everything you can. Consider reading about the mediumship of well-known mediums. Look at the history of Modern Spiritualism. Visit churches and/or centers to see mediumship in action, to meet like-minded others and to listen to the philosophy of Spiritualism.

mac


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Re: I really need help

Post by Kavon85 on Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:18 pm

mac wrote:
Kavon85 wrote:
mac wrote:There must be dozens of issues you'll read about in online forums. If one flits from one to another without first grasping the fundamentals then they're likely to remain baffling. Kinda like trying to do advanced maths when you haven't grasped the basics.


Would you mind explaining the basics to me?

The basics are simple. Firstly an understanding and acceptance of the fact that we survive corporeal death and live in a dimension different from the one we live in now. Secondly those who are said to be dead will sometimes return to make their survival known by communicating through a mediumship with those they still love, alive in this physical world. They are the fundamentals of Spiritualism. Beyond them we can consider all manner of other issues including the one you mentioned but before them I consider it important that a good grasp of the fundamentals is achieved.

If you've already accepted those then why not consider the following ways to broaden what you already know. Increase your understanding by studying everything you can. Consider reading about the mediumship of well-known mediums. Look at the history of Modern Spiritualism. Visit churches and/or centers to see mediumship in action, to meet like-minded others and to listen to the philosophy of Spiritualism.

I understand that and thank you I agree with the survival of this world and the communication through mediums. Since there are no "rules" to spiritualism am I free to believe whatever Ex: like i said before i do not believe the soul suffers for any actions done on earth. Am i able to freely believe this?

Kavon85


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Re: I really need help

Post by hiorta on Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:52 pm

You have absolute freedom to choose any or all of your beliefs.
It is what we do and think that seems to have the greater, automatic, impact upon us, and even this is modified by our motive and current spiritual status.

Spiritualism is not a 'thou shalt/ shalt not' understanding of Life.
The road ahead of all of us is an eternal one.
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hiorta


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Re: I really need help

Post by mac on Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:10 pm

"Since there are no "rules" to spiritualism am I free to believe whatever Ex: like i said before i do not believe the soul suffers for any actions done on earth. Am i able to freely believe this?"

I think that hiorta or obiwan already answered this. You're right - there are no rules and you can do and believe whatever you choose. But the way you say what you do, viz "....i do not believe the soul suffers for any actions done on earth" leaves room for discussion. What do you mean by "suffer"?

Yes there is no penalty to be paid, no sentence handed down by the judiciary, no suffering enforced in a jail but there's no escaping the natural law either. The individual may feel a great regret for omissions or commissions and feel a need to make personal amends. Is that the suffering that you think won't happen - no regrets about anything done in this world?

Such considerations are best considered against a wider understanding of Spiritualism's philosophy and guidance given by spiritually-evolved teachers and guides.


mac


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Re: I really need help

Post by Kavon85 on Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:26 pm

mac wrote:"Since there are no "rules" to spiritualism am I free to believe whatever Ex: like i said before i do not believe the soul suffers for any actions done on earth. Am i able to freely believe this?"

I think that hiorta or obiwan already answered this. You're right - there are no rules and you can do and believe whatever you choose. But the way you say what you do, viz "....i do not believe the soul suffers for any actions done on earth" leaves room for discussion. What do you mean by "suffer"?

Yes there is no penalty to be paid, no sentence handed down by the judiciary, no suffering enforced in a jail but there's no escaping the natural law either. The individual may feel a great regret for omissions or commissions and feel a need to make personal amends. Is that the suffering that you think won't happen - no regrets about anything done in this world?

Such considerations are best considered against a wider understanding of Spiritualism's philosophy and guidance given by spiritually-evolved teachers and guides.

Thank you Hiorta! You have helped me so much and I appreciate it.
Mac, what I mean by "suffer" is I agree that one this plane we will be..i don't want to say punished..but we will have consequences to our actions because of karma/natural law. However, i do not believe that when I die I will be suffer/punishment for actions i have done here. My soul is separate from my mind. My soul is not responsible for my thoughts or actions therefore, for it to be punished in the spirit world wouldn't make sense to me. Do you believe this as well or do you believe different?

Kavon85


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Re: I really need help

Post by mac on Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:04 pm

"My soul is not responsible for my thoughts or actions therefore, for it to be punished in the spirit world wouldn't make sense to me. Do you believe this as well or do you believe different?"

You are responsible for all your thoughts, actions or omissions - consistent with your personal spiritual evolvement, your spiritual understanding. I don't bother with the differentiation of soul, spirit, self or higher-self in such discussions..... And there is no punishment in the so-called spirit world so your premise doesn't apply.

But now you're straying into more complex issues and to discuss those a sound understanding is desirable about why we're here in the first place, what happens after our lives here ends, what happens next and what happens in our continuing lives.

None of the above is my personal belief. It's what's consistently taught by teachers and guides way more spiritually-evolved than I.

mac


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Re: I really need help

Post by Kavon85 on Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:13 pm

mac wrote:"My soul is not responsible for my thoughts or actions therefore, for it to be punished in the spirit world wouldn't make sense to me. Do you believe this as well or do you believe different?"

You are responsible for all your thoughts, actions or omissions - consistent with your personal spiritual evolvement, your spiritual understanding. I don't bother with the differentiation of soul, spirit, self or higher-self in such discussions..... And there is no punishment in the so-called spirit world so your premise doesn't apply.

But now you're straying into more complex issues and to discuss those a sound understanding is desirable about why we're here in the first place, what happens after our lives here ends, what happens next and what happens in our continuing lives.

None of the above is my personal belief. It's what's consistently taught by teachers and guides way more spiritually-evolved than I.

i see

Kavon85


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Re: I really need help

Post by obiwan on Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:19 pm

Does "I see" mean you have fully understood the comment from mac?

obiwan


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Re: I really need help

Post by mac on Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:49 am

I suspect that this member neither sees nor understands, obiwan.... Two words - one written incorrectly - as a response to what I wrote. Couldn't even be bothered to write "Thanks I'll think about what you've said and tell you what I think." Rolling Eyes

I'm too old to keep wasting my time on tyre-kickers. Pound to a penny this member will be wandering around other websites, hopping from forum to forum, wasting others' time....

I'm gonna leave her/him to the more giving members of our website. Those who have more patience.

mac


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Re: I really need help

Post by obiwan on Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:07 am

mac wrote:I suspect that this member neither sees nor understands, obiwan.... Two words - one written incorrectly - as a response to what I wrote. Couldn't even be bothered to write "Thanks I'll think about what you've said and tell you what I think." Rolling Eyes

I'm too old to keep wasting my time on tyre-kickers. Pound to a penny this member will be wandering around other websites, hopping from forum to forum, wasting others' time....

I'm gonna leave her/him to the more giving members of our website. Those who have more patience.

Well Mac, at least your efforts will serve 'pour encourager les autres', as they say. Smile

obiwan


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Re: I really need help

Post by mac on Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:34 am

obiwan wrote:
mac wrote:I suspect that this member neither sees nor understands, obiwan.... Two words - one written incorrectly - as a response to what I wrote. Couldn't even be bothered to write "Thanks I'll think about what you've said and tell you what I think." Rolling Eyes

I'm too old to keep wasting my time on tyre-kickers. Pound to a penny this member will be wandering around other websites, hopping from forum to forum, wasting others' time....

I'm gonna leave her/him to the more giving members of our website. Those who have more patience.

Well Mac, at least your efforts will serve 'pour encourager les autres', as they say. Smile

I do hope so, obi.

mac


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