The Spiritualists' National Union

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The Spiritualists' National Union

Post by Sunlight on Thu May 24, 2012 7:32 am

The Spiritualists' National Union, when I first discovered their existence I remember being so excited. At last I had found what I was looking for. The principles, the churches, the mediums, the healers - everything seemed friendly and optimistic. I want to get back to that, because over time something has changed. I've lost my respect for the SNU and I really think that it's because they're running it like a business.

I keep trying to look beyond the earthly trappings, keeping a positive attitude, but I am lying to myself. I don't need to illustrate what they're doing wrong, there's several people already posting about that, but I dearly would like to get back to the place where I was all those years ago.

sunny
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Re: The Spiritualists' National Union

Post by Lis on Thu May 24, 2012 8:07 am

There are many people Sunlight who would very much like to see the SNU and indeed Spiritualism as a movement get back to the way it used to be.

Lis
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Re: The Spiritualists' National Union

Post by hiorta on Thu May 24, 2012 8:40 am

The ideal is usually unavailable most times, but it does serve as a signpost to where we could aim for. This is how humanity advances and in this situation, be grateful that those of us who have 'seen' can use that as a compass to show the way when the inevitable clouds gather.

Spiritualism can do little if the 'pupil is not ready' and should those who seek to 'lead' be motivated by anything less than the highest, then their efforts must fail.

On a personal note, I 'walked' from SNU ways in the mid 1980's and never looked back. Their hidden attempts at total control at that time were repugnant to me.
Regard them as a foundation, then build your own philosophy on your own life experiences. At least, that way it is relevant to you, while an off-the-shelf version may not fit at all. The higher spheres already know if you desire to 'grow'.
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Re: The Spiritualists' National Union

Post by KatyKing on Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm

Agree witth h also if your local church is nice then SNU or not it's your church. I work all over and locals are smashing whatever the brand. It's when you get those who are higher up the ladder or want to be. More back biting on SNU Regional and National commttees than a litter of pups with fleas has. The only mutuality is loathing. They really do hate each other. You can near enough taste the malice in the air at Stanstead after a NEC meeting. That said NEC'll be down to one soon if things carry on as they are.
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Re: The Spiritualists' National Union

Post by KatyKing on Thu May 24, 2012 2:00 pm

Look at Margaret Preece and Paignton. Also Reading where SNU has imposed a 'minister'. Nice enough chap but where's the democracy in that?
Somewhere someone powerful in SNU conveniently 'forgot' what a Union should be. A democratic organization owned and run by its membership and their delegates NOT their managers. Directorate have turned it into a quasi corporation and there's one now as wants to be CEO. Some spivs tried that on with the Co Op back in Thatcher's day. Membership soon enough squashed em. Trouble with SNU is they have put so many filters between members and decision making that change is always top down so members lose heart as they aren't being listened to. That leaves the vested interest ones to do as they want.
I realise I have just described English politics in general not just SNU.
Unions are the last bastion of democracy. I'm an ATL [member elected] branch sec and delegate our union is run by and for members. If I do the job OK if not I'm voted off, how easy is that. Anything else and you get spivs and chancers lining their egos and sometimes their pockets off the backs of others.
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Re: The Spiritualists' National Union

Post by Sunlight on Thu May 24, 2012 2:03 pm

The grapevine is full of stories at the moment. I won't repeat what I have only heard second hand, but the series of problems, arguments, and mistakes seems to flow from them like an ectoplasmic river of trouble. I know three individual members who are not renewing and I'm joining them. I would have gladly paid the money if they actually dealt with people in a manner that was more compassionate.
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Re: The Spiritualists' National Union

Post by Sunlight on Thu May 24, 2012 2:08 pm

The problem is that when you hear a story like Margaret Preece's, you immediately think, 'Oh how terrible!' Then there is a statement from the Spiritualists National Union about it and by some slippery excuse, you almost start to see it from their side.
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Re: The Spiritualists' National Union

Post by KatyKing on Thu May 24, 2012 2:24 pm

Well they have shot themselves in the foot. Devon Spiritualist School is booming and Margaret is an Independent so they'll lose Paignton or have to put someone in to manage decline where it was thriving before. Spiritualists will gravitate to Margaret and are doing.
Every time SNU national puts their hand to something it goes bits up. At least they are consistent.
:-)
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Re: The Spiritualists' National Union

Post by eirefox on Thu May 24, 2012 3:04 pm

I'm not familiar with the SNU, as I'm in N. America. The problems you describe with the SNU sound familiar though. A lot of religious organizations have the same problems as you describe. 'Religion' is like government: you give those in control an inch, and they'll take a yard.

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Re: The Spiritualists' National Union

Post by Blackcrow on Thu May 24, 2012 3:18 pm




No I will not enter a SNU church the people who run it think they can dictate to people .this is my experience with them the atmospher is terrible there i walked into a SNU spiritulist church and walked out again, who these people think they are.
i went to a Healing Sanctuary what a difference helpful friendly everything the SNU church isnt.

Namaste

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Re: The Spiritualists' National Union

Post by KatyKing on Thu May 24, 2012 5:41 pm

That's a shame on them Carron. Church that won't welcome won't thrive.
Too many medallions and titles goes to some folks heads. There are some good people in SNU but you are right if you want to feel wanted an independent case is generally better.
Open your mouth in some SNU churches and you are seen as some sort of rival for authority. They are glad enough of expenses only mediums though.
One church I go to won't book new CSNUs whiich is a shame but they are being trained to push a party line for the dangled carrot of becoming a minister. Too much philosophy which can be SNU party line at the expense of demming. If they give twenty minute speech there's less time for evidence. Folk don't want that.
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Re: The Spiritualists' National Union

Post by KatyKing on Thu May 24, 2012 6:00 pm

eirefox wrote:I'm not familiar with the SNU, as I'm in N. America. The problems you describe with the SNU sound familiar though. A lot of religious organizations have the same problems as you describe. 'Religion' is like government: you give those in control an inch, and they'll take a yard.

Dead right Mike. Give a referee a whistle and he's sure to blow it.
The more chiefs there are the less say us ornery 'indians' get to have.
Spiritualism's too loosey goosey to be managed. You'd do better trying to herd cats.
That churchofalice near you is a SNU affiliate. They look like a fun crowd going by their website. Not typical of SNU over here though they can be very buttoned up. Same everywhere people try to limit Spirit with all sorts of daft rules and man made rankings.
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Alice Street Spiritualist Church ~ SNU

Post by eirefox on Fri May 25, 2012 3:05 am

Yes, I noticed that they follow the SNU pattern (from their website). I've never visited the Alice Street Church. They only meet every-other-week and they are in a private home.
KatyKing wrote:
eirefox wrote:I'm not familiar with the SNU, as I'm in N. America. The problems you describe with the SNU sound familiar though. A lot of religious organizations have the same problems as you describe. 'Religion' is like government: you give those in control an inch, and they'll take a yard.

Dead right Mike. Give a referee a whistle and he's sure to blow it.
The more chiefs there are the less say us ornery 'indians' get to have.
Spiritualism's too loosey goosey to be managed. You'd do better trying to herd cats.
That churchofalice near you is a SNU affiliate. They look like a fun crowd going by their website. Not typical of SNU over here though they can be very buttoned up. Same everywhere people try to limit Spirit with all sorts of daft rules and man made rankings.

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Re: The Spiritualists' National Union

Post by _Leslie_ on Fri May 25, 2012 7:45 am

I'm not a member of the SNU, but have attended lots of SNU churches, either as a guest, or just as a vistor and have always found them to be very much like any other. My only knowledge of problems has been relayed third party, hence I've no 'direct' personal exerperince. That said, what I hear and read, certainly if factual, does give cause for concern....

Every organisation (religion?) has the same unique flaw... People Wink And sadly, there are always those who no matter how noble or good the cause, who's membership is questionable.
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Re: The Spiritualists' National Union

Post by Sunlight on Fri May 25, 2012 8:00 am

Walk away, that's what I'm doing - problem solved.

sunny
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Re: The Spiritualists' National Union

Post by KatyKing on Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:28 pm

Letter in current PN points to the high number of SNU churchs currently under supervision which is a euphemism for being told what to do and how to do it. It's one thing having the union as a trustee to protect assets but the sting in that tail seems to be loss of local democracy.
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Re: The Spiritualists' National Union

Post by Left Behind on Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:52 pm

Could be that the silver lining in the cloud that the SNU has become or is perceived as having become is that it's spurring growth with other Spiritualist organizations (Corinthians, United Spiritualists), and with independent Spiritualist churches?

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Re: The Spiritualists' National Union

Post by eirefox on Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:27 pm

It's one thing to have an association of churches... churches that have a common doctrine and practice. It's another thing to have a 'union' that attempts to dictate to those individual churches in the union. It appears that the SNU (and many other organizations besides the SNU) is becoming cult-like. Unfortunately for them, people don't like to be controlled. Small churches don't like to be controlled. When a 'union' attempts to control, people naturally fight back or leave. If the SNU was smart, they would let individual churches show their individuality. Historically, when a group becomes to overpowering, they begin to lose members.

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Re: The Spiritualists' National Union

Post by earth angel on Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:18 pm

I had heard that the problem with the snu and stansted comes from within the commitee and board members, which then like a ripple effect has a knock on effect at some snu churches.
Not all snu churhces are bad though. the smaller ones i tend to find ok. luckily i have a good one near me. unfortunely others arent so lucky and then the members become disheartened or disillussioned. This is due to certain committee members who are ego based driven, and who do not serve the community but themselves.
the snu and stansted needs to get back to basics as it has become lost without gordan higginson in charge
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Re: The Spiritualists' National Union

Post by Admin on Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:46 am

KatyKing wrote:Letter in current PN points to the high number of SNU churchs currently under supervision which is a euphemism for being told what to do and how to do it. It's one thing having the union as a trustee to protect assets but the sting in that tail seems to be loss of local democracy.

Hmm I am well on record about this KK a future fund raising source. I have also noted that I expect the Ministerial council to become stronger as Ministers get appointed to the remaining churches (maybe the funds are needed to pay a stipend). The next stage could be to take the SNU out of the hospitality industry by not providing food and accomodation at couses (making Stansted Hall redundant). Then we have what quacks like a traditional organised Religion and looks like one. The Ministers have the power and church councils work like those in any parish. Bruton as first ArchBishop of Stafford
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Re: The Spiritualists' National Union

Post by hiorta on Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:48 am

Ah yes. An official 'whited sepulchre'
Folk intent on giving service need neither uniform or sceptre, but can be recognised by their fruits.
This looks to be simply more of the same old....
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Re: The Spiritualists' National Union

Post by KatyKing on Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:31 pm

My crystal ball prediction for SNU AGM next month and future of the hall are on here. Time will tell. The more party line the SNU becomes the more it loses members. Folk these days prefer to make up their own minds rather than having some grand poo bah laying downthe law. The only growth across the movement is where people feel involved in decision making. The danger in that of course is that if we are all things to all people then we are nothing very mch at all. Plus, for a small church; it only takes three or four Indigo parents and their mates or similar new age hobbyists to wheedle their way in and before you know it your Spiritualist cause has morphed into a conclave for nutters.
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Re: The Spiritualists' National Union

Post by Admin on Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:16 am

Yes and the varying intentions can cause ongoing tensions when the natural rifts occur. If the Spiritualists hang in the departing ones just say that the place will not move on, never understanding that their intent to enforce there ideas on a Spiritualist organisation which they chose to join is the cause of the problem.

Our centres, particularly those owned by groups, can look very attractive meeting places for many varying new age or pagan groups. Infiltration by people who seem to want to help can quickly becoame an attempt to take over and bring others in.

The backlash if they lose can also become unpleasant.
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Re: The Spiritualists' National Union

Post by KatyKing on Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:36 pm

Amen to that. Jim By and large rank and file Spiritualists are easy going and accepting. You get a bit of back biting amongst some mediums but in the churches I know folk are lovely. I had a professional run in with the Indigo crew a while back due to something I'd been mis reported as saying that was picked up on one of their websites or some such. The sheer volume of deeply malicious vitriol that drew was staggering. There are some fractured and most unpleasant people out there.
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