card readings et al

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Re: card readings et al

Post by mac on Wed May 16, 2012 7:59 am

Admin wrote:Interesting Mac I have an unusual set of cards which Lis bought for me. When I started they were the get out of jail free item if I was getting nothing although I never needed them I get people to randomly pick one which I look at at the end of a reading. I have stopped that now on most occasions.

Set up my intent on the morning before readings and now am used to just starting and going. Spend a lot of time monitoring psychic vs mediums i.e I have a person here..evidence etc full CERT procedure (Communicator Evidence, reason for being there and tying it up) however in a private reading I am aware you can slide off the link and go psychic. Therefore when I do I tell the client thats what is happening.

Strange only did readings for fund raisers. Then someone wanted a proof of survival reading, then another and they are now reccomending me so I seem to be doing 2 a week on average, purely through word of mouth.

Not sure what you are telling me, Jim....?


Last edited by mac on Wed May 16, 2012 8:11 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : word order!)

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Re: card readings et al

Post by Admin on Wed May 16, 2012 11:26 am

I think what I am saying Mac is the facilitators have a duty to ensure people have some idea of the nature of the communication transaction that they are teaching.
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Re: card readings et al

Post by Left Behind on Wed May 16, 2012 3:49 pm

I think I'll get a set of Tarot cards. They may help. If nothing else, they have pretty pictures on them.

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Re: card readings et al

Post by petal34 on Wed May 16, 2012 4:30 pm

Left Behind wrote:I think I'll get a set of Tarot cards. They may help. If nothing else, they have pretty pictures on them.

I find Tarot cards very hard to read,Jim.
Any others I am not too bad with.
Strange but hubby would not have tarot cards in the home.
Just remarked he never liked the feel of them.
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Re: card readings et al

Post by petal34 on Wed May 16, 2012 5:18 pm

Very true,KK.
Ken often remarked on those cards but still wouldn't use them.....fuuny guy,my old man.. Rolling Eyes
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Re: card readings et al

Post by Wes on Wed May 16, 2012 10:59 pm

Left Behind wrote:I think I'll get a set of Tarot cards. They may help. If nothing else, they have pretty pictures on them.

For a wide sleection of tarot decks, have a look at:

http://www.tarot.com/tarot/decks/index.php

If you are starting from scratch, it's helpful to begin with the Rider-Waite deck, for it's "historical" value and it tends to be the deck used in tarot guide books:

http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/rider-waite/

For more exotic tarot decks, the choices are almsot endless, and with a bit of searching you can find one that suits you.

My deck of choice is the Gilded Tarot deck, which has very rich imagery:

http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/gilded/

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Re: card readings et al

Post by Admin on Wed May 16, 2012 11:59 pm

Back to Mac's point, it occured to me that too often, on a Spiritualist site we can fall into the trap that all people want messages from loved ones. We have a committee member, who attends my group and was SA Psychic of the year last year in one of the two organisations. She would confirm what I see on a regular basis at fundraisers, the vast majority of people want life advice not loved one's probably 85%.

Of these over half will be of the, is it the right time to leave my boy friend/husband is the new man in my life good etc. They really want fortune telling or counselling. In many cases they want a "mystic" third party with special powers to validate what they have already decided to do or what they would like to do but need empowering.

I think a great many of these are happy if the transaction is completed by the use of cards or other props (bring back the crystal ball (I am going to buy some for use in my group) or gyspsy fortune tellers cards.

Of course counselling may well work, cloaked as a psychic reading, provided you are a traned and qualified counsellor.

So to some extent the efficacy of many card readings is probably more about how close it gets to what the person wants to hear. Unlike a mediumisticv reading where it is the accuracy of the evidence you give and the validity of the person conveying the message from Spirit...except of course if they only want Aunt Maud who is not attending then the whole thing falls flat. Oh it also falls flat when they want loved ones who can give them some magical answer to their problems, to tell them what to do.
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Re: card readings et al

Post by Left Behind on Thu May 17, 2012 4:37 pm

petal34 wrote:
Left Behind wrote:I think I'll get a set of Tarot cards. They may help. If nothing else, they have pretty pictures on them.

I find Tarot cards very hard to read,Jim.
Any others I am not too bad with.
Strange but hubby would not have tarot cards in the home.
Just remarked he never liked the feel of them.

Some people are like that about Ouija boards. I think the boards have gotten an undeserved bad reputataion because too many kids of all ages "play" with them.

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Re: card readings et al

Post by Left Behind on Thu May 17, 2012 4:47 pm

Admin wrote:Back to Mac's point, it occured to me that too often, on a Spiritualist site we can fall into the trap that all people want messages from loved ones. We have a committee member, who attends my group and was SA Psychic of the year last year in one of the two organisations. She would confirm what I see on a regular basis at fundraisers, the vast majority of people want life advice not loved one's probably 85%.

Of these over half will be of the, is it the right time to leave my boy friend/husband is the new man in my life good etc. They really want fortune telling or counselling. In many cases they want a "mystic" third party with special powers to validate what they have already decided to do or what they would like to do but need empowering.

I think a great many of these are happy if the transaction is completed by the use of cards or other props (bring back the crystal ball (I am going to buy some for use in my group) or gyspsy fortune tellers cards.

Of course counselling may well work, cloaked as a psychic reading, provided you are a traned and qualified counsellor.

So to some extent the efficacy of many card readings is probably more about how close it gets to what the person wants to hear. Unlike a mediumisticv reading where it is the accuracy of the evidence you give and the validity of the person conveying the message from Spirit...except of course if they only want Aunt Maud who is not attending then the whole thing falls flat. Oh it also falls flat when they want loved ones who can give them some magical answer to their problems, to tell them what to do.

This marks what should be the great divide, between fortune telling, and mediumship.

But then, as you also point out, sometimes it's not so clear as that.

If I'm trying to confirm that my late Aunt Maude is still alive, in another dimension, that's clearly mediumship.

If I'm asking Ekwontek the Wise how to invest my $10G, that's fortune telling. But what if, after I confirm to my satisfaction in my first mediumistic reading that my late Aunt Maude is indeed alive in another dimension, I then start asking her for advice on how to invest my $10G? Hmmmm. . .i

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Re: card readings et al

Post by mac on Thu May 17, 2012 7:46 pm

Looks like this thread's not going anywhere. Wink

I'm outa here....

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Re: card readings et al

Post by petal34 on Thu May 17, 2012 8:02 pm

mac wrote:Looks like this thread's not going anywhere. Wink

I'm outa here....

Ah come on,Mac,was just getting interested..... Shocked
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Re: card readings et al

Post by mac on Thu May 17, 2012 8:05 pm

Committee or no, self-praise is no recommendation... Wink

Looks like my simple questions were as big a challenge to your friends as they were elsewhere.

illuminating but concerning


Last edited by mac on Thu May 17, 2012 9:07 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : grammar)

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Re: card readings et al

Post by Mark74 on Thu May 17, 2012 9:41 pm

I agree. Most subjects are really interesting on here but they do go off track and end up chatting about things that are nothing to do with the thread. Maybe if they didn't I might comment and interact more often.

Why the forum administrators keep allowing this boggles me Exclamation

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Re: card readings et al

Post by mac on Thu May 17, 2012 9:56 pm

zerdini wrote:
mac wrote:Looks like this thread's not going anywhere. Wink

I'm outa here....

Did you honestly expect anything different, mac?

The topic was hijacked like most subjects on here. Rolling Eyes

I hoped rather than expected, z.

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Re: card readings et al

Post by mac on Thu May 17, 2012 10:00 pm

In fairness I did post this topic in the 'chit-chat' forum and it's one where anything goes.

I didn't see a more suitable forum or I could have posted it there but still there'd be no guarantee of a different outcome.

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Re: card readings et al

Post by Wes on Thu May 17, 2012 10:01 pm

It is a shame, as this topic has got me thinking about tarot and cards in general, and how they might fit in to the Spiritualist realm, if they fit in at all.

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Re: card readings et al

Post by mac on Thu May 17, 2012 10:09 pm

Wes wrote:It is a shame, as this topic has got me thinking about tarot and cards in general, and how they might fit in to the Spiritualist realm, if they fit in at all.


It's that theme which started me thinking recently although I've had similar thoughts for many years. I've refrained from expressing my ideas because I know from experience that many find what I say very challenging, although much less so on this website but I've run the thread elsewhere where it is the case.

The results have been mixed. I've had a few thoughtful respondents with interesting ideas but overall it's been as I said earlier - illuminating but concerning.

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Re: card readings et al

Post by Admin on Thu May 17, 2012 11:48 pm

Mark74 wrote:I agree. Most subjects are really interesting on here but they do go off track and end up chatting about things that are nothing to do with the thread. Maybe if they didn't I might comment and interact more often.

Why the forum administrators keep allowing this boggles me Exclamation

Hi Mark, by the time we wake up in Australia most of this is over for the night. I have said General Chat is open to wander but when you get a serious topic like this it should not wander off target so much. However Mac did ask for opinions and to some extent some of the wanderings have been about that. We have soem posters who like the more flippant style however I would like people to try and stay with the topic more closely.

In my opinion one of Spiritualism's greatest failings is it mouths the adage of all mediums are psychic but not all psychics are mediums then falls flat on its face when trying to describe the actual differences. Or worse having said that it demonstrates both on platform and on fund raising reading days all types of Psychism without ever differentiating what the approaches are. So committee members are psychic readers who probably go teh whole hog by saying in their readings spirit is telling me. The small s is because its largely the subconscious with no Spirit involvement.

In some ways the flippancy is one of the base causes of this problem in that there is no real attempt to ensure that a proper understanding is presented and Spirtualist Centres stay true to the fundamentals by ensuring they tell people the difference. Tough job your average psychic/medium tarot reader believes they are dealing with Spirit nd will walk away in a huff when you try to show the differences. If they make up your committee then the New Agers/Redaers will never agree to a different understanding.

Let me repeat what I said 85% of people seeking readings do not want mediumship they want fortune telling. In Jims LB's case if Aunt Maude was a wasteful spendthrift in life do not expect her now to be a financial wizard. If she married badly 10 times do not expect good marital advice. To me the key is ensuring that readers do have some idea of what the transactions are and that the clients also do. I set out in my development groups to try and ensure people know what they are doing and the ethics of it. Often they will then start to do private readings. I work at two distinct levels purely psychica nd sepeartely to explore mediumship. I hope those who remain working as psychics learn the basic limitations of the skill and remember the ethics involved. I hope along the way to uncover some real mediumship ability and do at times.

Remember that most people are asked to bring a list of the questions they want the Psychic to answer nowadays, what a free hit for the reader.

Like some others on here, I am sad that the mood of the forum tends to much towards flippant replies in some places but we do need to ensure that all people are catered for. Some posters have commented on how they like the new lighter approach. What I would like is some balance.
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Re: card readings et al

Post by Wes on Fri May 18, 2012 12:21 am

KatyKing wrote:I wondered about that too mac. All four are women so perhaps it's a gender thing . We have no men card readers at all.
Maybe intuitives fight shy of self analysis and just get on with it. Contentions on here are always between men as per boggled Mark and Eeyore George's snippy pops above this. The women often mediating or placating when the chaps kick off.
Nine lady mediums to every man give or take we're quite rare in the churches these days and as the number of mediums overall declines might that also have encouraged increase in card readers and related trades?
Back in the day whe there were lots of mediums working you didn't hear much about Tarot.

I don't see that calling Z a donkey helps this topic along in a constructive way.

Tarot predates modern spiritualism by a few hundred years so card readers would have seen spiritualist mediums as new kids on the block trying to muscle in on their bred and butter. Yet at some point the lines between the two "trades" must have begun to blur as tarot/cards have found their way into spiritualist circles, at least that's the case here in Australia. There are benefits to be gained by both sides coming cloers together: Spiritualists using cards to help unfold psychic abilities; and card readers embracing the Spiritualist concepts of discernment. Somehow I think Spiritualism has gained more from the exchange than the tarot industry has, unless you count an increase in card sales to interested spiritualists Very Happy





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Re: card readings et al

Post by Admin on Fri May 18, 2012 12:30 am

I don't see that calling Z a donkey helps this topic along in a constructive way.

Good point Wes, nor attacking Mark either. In honesty this was not a flippant thread.
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Re: card readings et al

Post by KatyKing on Fri May 18, 2012 12:49 pm

No attack intended, apologies if perceived as such.
'et al' implied, to me; room for digression.
Back on topic now though.
The advantages to our church of having card readers on board is that they are an attractive option at socials. Folk enjoy having their cards read for three quid and some of those who come for that do gravitate into our formal meetings. Nothing like the numbers in or services that we get at our Tea with Spirit socials though. We can see almost 200 through the doors at Tea with Spirit and we're lucky to get 50 to a regular weekly meeting. More for specials.

I
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Re: card readings et al

Post by mac on Sat May 19, 2012 10:26 am

KatyKing wrote:No attack intended, apologies if perceived as such.
'et al' implied, to me; room for digression.
Back on topic now though.
The advantages to our church of having card readers on board is that they are an attractive option at socials. Folk enjoy having their cards read for three quid and some of those who come for that do gravitate into our formal meetings. Nothing like the numbers in or services that we get at our Tea with Spirit socials though. We can see almost 200 through the doors at Tea with Spirit and we're lucky to get 50 to a regular weekly meeting. More for specials.

I

The words 'et al' did imply room for digression into other readings - crystal ball for example as that's a well known alternative source of 'readings'.....

As I've already said, because I posted my opening thread in this 'chit chat' forum I was expecting almost any kind of response so I'm not concerned that replies haven't been totally serious.

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Re: card readings et al

Post by Admin on Sun May 20, 2012 1:06 am

Well said Mac and it has brought in a number of other topics. My interest in the use of the Crystal Ball followed on from doing mirror scrying as an exercise in my Group. I followed the instructions from Maxwell's 1905 book Metaphysical Phenomena. people enjoyed the exercise and the idea behind it. Having paired them up I was on my own just trying it when my Mothers face appeared.

Conceptually all of these things allow the important deflection of the active mind.
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Re: card readings et al

Post by Admin on Sun May 20, 2012 1:16 am

Crystal Balls are not too dear these days http://compare.ebay.com.au/like/180650920344?clk_rvr_id=303993448597

To Quote Maxwell
One of the oldest known methods of inducing visual
hallucination is the use of a crystal ball. I have no need
to recall to mind the practices of former fortune-tellers,
nor the history of John Dee, nor the numerous recitals
1 84 METAPSYCHICAL PHENOMENA
handed down to us by ancient chroniclers, novelists, etc.
The crystal ball and the black mirror are the best
methods ; but the ordinary mirror, a glass of water, a
decanter, a shoemaker's wooden ball, the finger-nail, the
watch-glass, any polished surface, in fact, may serve to
induce hallucination ; but I only recommend the first
methods—they are certainly the best ; a glass of water,
a decanter, a syphon of seltzer-water, the thumb-nail,
polished surfaces, etc., may serve to induce hallucination,
but these last methods only succeed with very highly
sensitive subjects.
I have carefully studied crystal-gazing, and though I
have remarked individual differences in each sensitive,
I think I may say that, as far as working methods are
concerned, I have come to the following conclusions :

The material of which the object is composed is not
a matter of indifference. Balls of rock-crystal have
given me the best results. I have seen people, incapable
of receiving visions with ordinary glass, obtain them in
a tiny ball of natural crystal. Objects in rock-crystal
have the inconvenience of being very expensive.
Ordinary glass gives good results, but care should be
taken that the ball contains no air bubbles or other
defects. They must be as homogeneous as possible.
The ball may be spherical or egg-shaped. I think
the elliptical form is, perhaps, the best ; reflections are
more easily avoided with this shape.
The size is a matter of indifference ; personally, I
prefer rather large balls. I have, nevertheless, obtained
just as good results with balls of only one centimetre in
diameter as with balls of six or seven centimetres in
diameter.
PSYCHO-SENSORY PHENOMENA 185
The crystal may be white, blue, violet, yellow, green
;
it may be opalescent or transparent ; but, I think, the
best results are obtained with white transparent balls ;
blue or amethyst coloured crystals are also very good,
and tire the eyes less than others.^
When looking into the ball, it should be sheltered
from reflection, as it should ofi^er a uniform tint, without
any brilliant points. To obtain this result, it may
be enveloped in a piece of dark foulard or velvet, or
held in the hollow of the hand, or even at the fingertips,
provided the conditions mentioned above have been
observed. The object ought to be placed within the range
of normal vision ; the gaze should not be directed on
to the surface of the crystal, but in the crystal itself. The
knack of gazing inside the crystal is speedily acquired.
Mirrors also give very good results. They can be
made like ordinary mirrors, or black like the famous
mirrors of Bhatta, which are made of a special composition.
Sensitives say that the mirror should not
reflect anything : it should present a uniform tint, e.g,
that of the sky, blue or grey, but without the mixture of
these colours as would be the case with a cloudy sky ; in a
room the ceiling may be reflected, if it be monochrome.

"(^ As crystal-gazing seems to me one of the most curious phenomena to
study, I will take the liberty of mentioning that well-made crystal balls may
be found at Leymarie, 42 Rue Saint-Jacques, Paris j at the Society for
Psychical Research, 20 Hanover Square, London, W. j or Mrs. Venman,
Sugden Road, Lavender Hill, London, S.W. The price of the globes
varies from 6s. to 9s. ; those of ovoids, from 8s. to 10s. The best thing
to do would be to look for a ball in rock-crystal, the price of which would
vary from 4s. to ,^8(pound). They must be cut to order, for it is extremely difficult to find any ready made. M. Servan, jeweller at Bordeaux, furnishes good ones
)"
186 METAPSYCHICAL PHENOMENA
Under these conditions of operation I have sometimes
observed results so extraordinary, as to confound
the imagination. They appeared to me to tend towards
demonstrating Kant's idea of the relativity and contingency
of time and space. It is very difficult to admit,
that these two ordinates of our perceptions are exactly
what they seem to be, unless we push the theory of
coincidence to the absurd. But this would be shutting
the door on all discussion, and on all intelligent examination
of a fact apparently abnormal.
My observations have been made with different
persons, and a great many have been pointed out to me.
Sensitives, possessing the faculty of seeing in the crystal,
are not rare. The analysis of the facts I have observed,
or of which I hold first-hand reports, allows me to class
these 'hallucinations '
(?) under six categories of increasing
interest :

y^. Imagination—images, ordinary hallucination.
B. Forgotten souvenirs, recalled to memory in the
form of visions.
C. Passed events, of which the sensitive affirms to
have always been ignorant.
D. Present events, certainly unknown to the sensitive.
E. Future events.
F. Facts of doubtful interpretation.
This grouping shows the curious gradation observed
in these visions. First of all, disorderly and illogical
activity as in dreams ; then, more orderly activity:
knowledge of forgotten facts, knowledge of past events
unknown to the sensitive, knowledge of present events
unknown to the sensitive, apparent prescience.
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Re: card readings et al

Post by Mark74 on Tue May 22, 2012 10:50 pm

Admin wrote:
Mark74 wrote:I agree. Most subjects are really interesting on here but they do go off track and end up chatting about things that are nothing to do with the thread. Maybe if they didn't I might comment and interact more often.

Why the forum administrators keep allowing this boggles me Exclamation

Hi Mark, by the time we wake up in Australia most of this is over for the night. I have said General Chat is open to wander but when you get a serious topic like this it should not wander off target so much. However Mac did ask for opinions and to some extent some of the wanderings have been about that. We have soem posters who like the more flippant style however I would like people to try and stay with the topic more closely.

In my opinion one of Spiritualism's greatest failings is it mouths the adage of all mediums are psychic but not all psychics are mediums then falls flat on its face when trying to describe the actual differences. Or worse having said that it demonstrates both on platform and on fund raising reading days all types of Psychism without ever differentiating what the approaches are. So committee members are psychic readers who probably go teh whole hog by saying in their readings spirit is telling me. The small s is because its largely the subconscious with no Spirit involvement.

In some ways the flippancy is one of the base causes of this problem in that there is no real attempt to ensure that a proper understanding is presented and Spirtualist Centres stay true to the fundamentals by ensuring they tell people the difference. Tough job your average psychic/medium tarot reader believes they are dealing with Spirit nd will walk away in a huff when you try to show the differences. If they make up your committee then the New Agers/Redaers will never agree to a different understanding.

Let me repeat what I said 85% of people seeking readings do not want mediumship they want fortune telling. In Jims LB's case if Aunt Maude was a wasteful spendthrift in life do not expect her now to be a financial wizard. If she married badly 10 times do not expect good marital advice. To me the key is ensuring that readers do have some idea of what the transactions are and that the clients also do. I set out in my development groups to try and ensure people know what they are doing and the ethics of it. Often they will then start to do private readings. I work at two distinct levels purely psychica nd sepeartely to explore mediumship. I hope those who remain working as psychics learn the basic limitations of the skill and remember the ethics involved. I hope along the way to uncover some real mediumship ability and do at times.

Remember that most people are asked to bring a list of the questions they want the Psychic to answer nowadays, what a free hit for the reader.

Like some others on here, I am sad that the mood of the forum tends to much towards flippant replies in some places but we do need to ensure that all people are catered for. Some posters have commented on how they like the new lighter approach. What I would like is some balance.

Thanks for the feedback Admin.

Mark74


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