card readings et al

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card readings et al

Post by mac on Mon May 14, 2012 5:26 pm

For those who haven't seen this on SCR....

Recently I've been trying to get a handle on card reading, crystal ball etc. Wikipedia suggests something like the following: “Tarot reading revolves around the belief that the cards can be used to gain insight into the past, current and possible future situations of the enquirer. Some believe they are guided by a spiritual force, while others believe the cards help them tap into a collective unconscious or their own creative, brainstorming subconscious.” I'd guess there'll be something similar for other forms of reading.

I'm not interested in the mechanism of readings but I'd like to hear what practitioners feel they are doing, the source of any information acquired. I'd also like to hear what enquirers felt about the readings they've had and where they thought any information came from. Additionally I'd like to learn what benefit practitioners feel they are providing and what recipients feel they received.

Plenty to go at!

mac


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Re: card readings et al

Post by Quiet on Mon May 14, 2012 6:29 pm

Mac, I'd like to comment on this but don't have time right now. Will be back in a day or so.

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Re: card readings et al

Post by mac on Mon May 14, 2012 7:16 pm

Quiet wrote:Mac, I'd like to comment on this but don't have time right now. Will be back in a day or so.

I'll be here... Smile

mac


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Re: card readings et al

Post by petal34 on Mon May 14, 2012 8:16 pm

Yes,I know which site you are talking about and the topic involved.
As you know I am the member who received the reading.
An excellent reading with a good forecast of the future and proof of an episode in the past.
An episode which no one else knows about except my family.
I was given information which was so accurate,word by word.
An episode which was entirely private.

Now the discussion came down on the fact, can tarot cards give such private information?
Is it Spirit intervening or I believe you mentioned that 'counselling' could also be a part of it.
I would also like to hear other members opinions of this strange reading and where exactly does counselling come into it?
Joan
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Re: card readings et al

Post by Wes on Mon May 14, 2012 9:33 pm

My experience with cards is that they are nothing more than props with pretty pictures. They are useful tools when learning to unfold psychic abilities, but after your abilities develop to a certain point, they are no longer needed.

Why they are still used probably comes down to entertainment value, it gives the client something to look at, and adds a bit of theatre to the whole process. Passers by at a market might pause to look at some nice tarot cards on a table and start a converstion, whereas they would just walk past someone sitting at a bare table.





Last edited by Wes on Mon May 14, 2012 9:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: card readings et al

Post by mac on Mon May 14, 2012 9:50 pm

Wes wrote:My experience with cards is that they are nothing more than props with pretty pictures. They are useful tools when learning to unfold psychic abilities, but after your abilities develop to a certain point, they are no longer needed.

Why they are still used probably comes down to entertainment value, it gives the client something to look at, and adds a bit of theatre to the whole process. Passers by at a market might pause to look at some nice tarot cards on a table and start a converstion, whereas they would just walk past someone sitting at a bare table.




Are these your observations as a practitioner or an enquirer?

mac


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Re: card readings et al

Post by mac on Mon May 14, 2012 9:54 pm

"I'd like to hear what practitioners feel they are doing, the source of any information acquired. I'd also like to hear what enquirers felt about the readings they've had and where they thought any information came from. Additionally I'd like to learn what benefit practitioners feel they are providing and what recipients feel they received."

mac


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Re: card readings et al

Post by Wes on Mon May 14, 2012 9:58 pm

mac wrote:
Wes wrote:My experience with cards is that they are nothing more than props with pretty pictures. They are useful tools when learning to unfold psychic abilities, but after your abilities develop to a certain point, they are no longer needed.

Why they are still used probably comes down to entertainment value, it gives the client something to look at, and adds a bit of theatre to the whole process. Passers by at a market might pause to look at some nice tarot cards on a table and start a converstion, whereas they would just walk past someone sitting at a bare table.




Are these your observations as a practitioner or an enquirer?

Both, I've given tarot readings privately and for church fundraisers, as well as being a sucker for getting card readings for myself - partly out of professional interest, partly out of curiosity.
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Re: card readings et al

Post by Wes on Mon May 14, 2012 10:01 pm

I should also add that when I do card readings now, I leave the cards facedown and work psychicly, and only turn the card over when I'm done and usually the literal meaning of the card is in line with what I've already given.
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Re: card readings et al

Post by mac on Mon May 14, 2012 10:05 pm

Wes wrote:I should also add that when I do card readings now, I leave the cards facedown and work psychicly, and only turn the card over when I'm done and usually the literal meaning of the card is in line with what I've already given.

Perhaps, then, you might be able to help with: "....I'd like to hear what practitioners feel they are doing, the source of any information acquired. I'd also like to hear what enquirers felt about the readings they've had and where they thought any information came from. Additionally I'd like to learn what benefit practitioners feel they are providing and what recipients feel they received."

mac


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Re: card readings et al

Post by Wes on Mon May 14, 2012 10:25 pm

From my experience the source is 100% psychic, and the cards are there as a focus for my attention, nothing more. There's also a sense that some people are more confortable with a card reading than they would be with seeing a medium (or a counsellor/phychiatrist for that matter) in that they'd rather see someone get information "from the cards" than from something less tangible.

The question about where the information comes from is an interesting one and something I've never thought to ask a reader and I shudder to think what some of the answers would be. Though I do remmeber one reader simply saying it was a matter of "tuning in".

As a recipient I've never been blown away by a reading (I've yet to be blown away by a psychic or medium's reading either for that matter) though I have been impressed by the general professionalism of some that also had a feeling of trustworthiness and good intentions about them.

The readings I've done that seemed to benefit the client are the ones that felt more like counselling sessions than psychic readings, where they were wrestling with personal issues and the reading helped bring the issues into focus, and get across the message that they are capable of resolving their own problems and will be supported by spirit as they do it.






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Re: card readings et al

Post by mac on Mon May 14, 2012 10:42 pm

Wes wrote:From my experience the source is 100% psychic, and the cards are there as a focus for my attention, nothing more. There's also a sense that some people are more confortable with a card reading than they would be with seeing a medium (or a counsellor/phychiatrist for that matter) in that they'd rather see someone get information "from the cards" than from something less tangible.

The question about where the information comes from is an interesting one and something I've never thought to ask a reader and I shudder to think what some of the answers would be. Though I do remmeber one reader simply saying it was a matter of "tuning in".

As a recipient I've never been blown away by a reading (I've yet to be blown away by a psychic or medium's reading either for that matter) though I have been impressed by the general professionalism of some that also had a feeling of trustworthiness and good intentions about them.

The readings I've done that seemed to benefit the client are the ones that felt more like counselling sessions than psychic readings, where they were wrestling with personal issues and the reading helped bring the issues into focus, and get across the message that they are capable of resolving their own problems and will be supported by spirit as they do it.







thanks

I'm confused about this though: "The question about where the information comes from is an interesting one and something I've never thought to ask a reader and I shudder to think what some of the answers would be." Didn't you say you were a reader viz? "Wes wrote:I should also add that when I do card readings now, I leave the cards facedown and work psychicly...... " Why would you need to ask another reader? And why would you shudder when you don't know yourself whether they'd be right.....?

Might I ask why you've not been impressed by being a recipient, being the subject of someone else's reading of you? Do you still seek them out mostly to avoid in your own readings whatever weaknesses you find in others?

mac


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Re: card readings et al

Post by Wes on Mon May 14, 2012 11:09 pm

mac wrote:
Wes wrote:From my experience the source is 100% psychic, and the cards are there as a focus for my attention, nothing more. There's also a sense that some people are more confortable with a card reading than they would be with seeing a medium (or a counsellor/phychiatrist for that matter) in that they'd rather see someone get information "from the cards" than from something less tangible.

The question about where the information comes from is an interesting one and something I've never thought to ask a reader and I shudder to think what some of the answers would be. Though I do remmeber one reader simply saying it was a matter of "tuning in".

As a recipient I've never been blown away by a reading (I've yet to be blown away by a psychic or medium's reading either for that matter) though I have been impressed by the general professionalism of some that also had a feeling of trustworthiness and good intentions about them.

The readings I've done that seemed to benefit the client are the ones that felt more like counselling sessions than psychic readings, where they were wrestling with personal issues and the reading helped bring the issues into focus, and get across the message that they are capable of resolving their own problems and will be supported by spirit as they do it.









thanks

I'm confused about this though: "The question about where the information comes from is an interesting one and something I've never thought to ask a reader and I shudder to think what some of the answers would be." Didn't you say you were a reader viz? "Wes wrote:I should also add that when I do card readings now, I leave the cards facedown and work psychicly...... " Why would you need to ask another reader? And why would you shudder when you don't know yourself whether they'd be right.....?

Might I ask why you've not been impressed by being a recipient, being the subject of someone else's reading of you? Do you still seek them out mostly to avoid in your own readings whatever weaknesses you find in others?

Even though I'm confident that I'm doing psychic work with cards, it would be interesting to find out where other readers believed their information was coming from, as some readers I've seen were pretty new-agey and I do wonder what they'd say, would they think that angels, fairies or ascended masters were feeding them information?

I guess every reading I've had is unimpressive as I'm still waiting to get a reading by any source that will totally convince me of life after death and spirit communication. Which is a pretty high standard to expect from a tarot reading, but I do live in hope. Most tarot readngs I've had were very predicitive, such as "you will have two children", "you will travel overseas next year" and I can't recall any that turned out to be true. The readings that were more general, such as "you are ready to start a new venture" or "you will get help with your work" were more reassuring, but not satisfying in a common sense sort of way.

The "weaknesses" I've seen in readings relate to the reader embracing new age ideas like the fairies and ascended masters, which immediately make me doubt the validity of their reading, which is really my own judgements geting in the way of the message. This does influence my own readings as I tend to make them as "no frills" as possible, with a caveat that anything I say needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
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Re: card readings et al

Post by mac on Mon May 14, 2012 11:15 pm

[quote="Wes"]
mac wrote:
Wes wrote:From my experience the source is 100% psychic, and the cards are there as a focus for my attention, nothing more. There's also a............... would you need to ask another reader? And why would you shudder when you don't know yourself whether they'd be right.....?

Might I ask why you've not been impressed by being a recipient, being the subject of someone else's reading of you? Do you still seek them out mostly to avoid in your own readings whatever weaknesses you find in others?[/color]

Even though I'm confident that I'm doing psychic work with cards, it would be interesting to find out where other readers believed their information was coming from, as some readers I've seen were pretty new-agey and I do wonder what they'd say, would they think that angels, fairies or ascended masters were feeding them information?

I guess every reading I've had is unimpressive as I'm still waiting to get a reading by any source that will totally convince me of life after death and spirit communication. Which is a pretty high standard to expect from a tarot reading, but I do live in hope. Most tarot readngs I've had were very predicitive, such as "you will have two children", "you will travel overseas next year" and I can't recall any that turned out to be true. The readings that were more general, such as "you are ready to start a new venture" or "you will get help with your work" were more reassuring, but not satisfying in a common sense sort of way.

The "weaknesses" I've seen in readings relate to the reader embracing new age ideas like the fairies and ascended masters, which immediately make me doubt the validity of their reading, which is really my own judgements geting in the way of the message. This does influence my own readings as I tend to make them as "no frills" as possible, with a caveat that anything I say needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

phew! It took some getting there but, thanks, I'm seeing pictures emerging.... I'll post my views later but for now I'm keeping stumm and listening.

mac


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Re: card readings et al

Post by Wes on Tue May 15, 2012 12:43 am

mac wrote:

phew! It took some getting there but, thanks, I'm seeing pictures emerging.... I'll post my views later but for now I'm keeping stumm and listening.

I do struggle to answer direct questions Very Happy

On ocassion Jim has used cards in his development group, one lot being a pack of cards with simple geometric designs that were intriguing, so maybe Jim could explain their use and benefits in a learning environment?





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Re: card readings et al

Post by Admin on Tue May 15, 2012 12:55 am

Hi Mac,

Wes will remember the four room house exercise, used it last night on the group. Interesting thay could all see and understand it was a psychic exercise. Simialarly when I use card exercises or psychometry with the group. Second half of the evening was on the difference between that and trying to contact the Spirit of loved ones.

In honesty when I am working psychically I feel that I move into an altered state of consciousness. Then I find I have access to a level of information about people which can be quite astonishing, especially when it is confirmed by them .

Reality is I have no idea where this comes from, it could be my guide or their guide but I have no proof. As a dowser who uses this energy in a different way and in teaching spoon bending same energy another way I tend to believe Spirit are not involved (except of course my Spirit and the other persons Spirit in direct contact).

I therefore teach people to ignore the potential of the "Spirit is telling me" which too many Psychics say. I use "I am sensing" or, "picking up from your energy" before I start I talk about the energy field surrounding and pervading us all, how we sit in each others auras, to demystify the transaction. I just have a feeling that it is possible at this level of altered consciousness we access our higher levels of consciousness.

It is an interesting issue to consider, where does our assistance from Spirit come in and when is it proveable. I stick with mediumship being proof of survival or contact with Spirit. However, if you have a knowledge of your guide and I describe him accurately with a message what is that. Psychic pick up or a message from Spirit it could be either.

Of course I have also seen people tell people they have say an eygptian guide but known all they have seen is a picture in the persons energy field. The individual had spent all day making a stained glass window containing an eygptian image.
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Re: card readings et al

Post by Left Behind on Tue May 15, 2012 2:40 am

Unless, as Wes said, the cards are basically just a prop, and whatever the reader is truly getting, he's getting psychically. . . otherwise, I don't understand how a deck of cards can "predict" anything.

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Re: card readings et al

Post by petal34 on Tue May 15, 2012 5:27 am

All tarot readings are just curiosity with me.
I am always interested in what comes out than trying to find out my future.
This reading turned out to be something so good that I couldn't believe it.
My opinion is spirit came in and took over.
Simple as that.
Joan
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Re: card readings et al

Post by mac on Tue May 15, 2012 8:36 am

We're getting closer to answers. In the main I'm keeping out of this discussion and trying to be analytical and objective about others' experiences with a view to asking more questions based on their answers...

I'm not after speculation, theory or ideas - they'll likely just take us off-topic and I can do all those without help anyway!

What I'm looking for are clues, if not direct answers, as to what's going on and from those indicators trying to see what value Tarot etc. might have.





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Re: card readings et al

Post by Left Behind on Tue May 15, 2012 3:45 pm

[quote="petal34"]
KatyKing wrote:It must be the reader doing it cos cards are just that.. card.. bit o paper can't tell fortunes.



This reading turned out to be something so good that I couldn't believe it.
My opinion is spirit came in and took over.
Simple as that.
Joan

I think this is the case. I don't see what little rectangles of cardboard can "tell" you: or crystals or tea leaves or bowls of water, for that matter.

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Re: card readings et al

Post by mac on Tue May 15, 2012 4:35 pm

KatyKing wrote:Tea Leaves can tell you that it is time for tea (and cake).

you little wag!

mac


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Re: card readings et al

Post by Loneblossom on Tue May 15, 2012 11:25 pm

I'd like to hear what practitioners feel they are doing, the source of any information acquired..

I am not entirely sure, as I'm new to tarot, but at the moment I feel it's psychic/intuition. Like others have said earlier, the cards are a tool.

I'd also like to hear what enquirers felt about the readings they've had and where they thought any information came from.

I've had two readings. The last reading I had was a free reading that the reader was giving to everyone at a wellness centre that I worked at. I was sceptical at first (as it was an Angel Card reading and that seemed far to New Age-y to me) until the reader came up with things that were really personal and relevant to me. I cannot say for sure where all of her info came from. The reader said 'I can see this...I can feel this...' which, to me, indicated psychic ability but she also mentioned an angel looking out for me but I don't know if that was psychic or her having some connection with the angel and/or her guides. At the end of it I felt that there were areas of my life that I needed to look at, things to maybe change.

Those that I have done readings for have felt interested in gaining an insight to their lives, they sometimes like having a chat about issues (so counselling comes into it - I'm considering taking a counselling course to improve my skills in this area too). They have not mentioned or questioned where the information comes from.

Additionally I'd like to learn what benefit practitioners feel they are providing and what recipients feel they received.
As a 'trainee' reader I feel that tarot readings help the sitters to look at areas of their lives where there may be work to be done. Or to highlight things that the sitter may be blind or in denial about. I feel that it is a tool for self-development, not for fortune-telling.
My recipients have found the readings (to paraphrase from my 'trainee journal') accurate, uplifting, chillingly clear about their issue, helpful to see areas to change, interesting. None of them have questioned, or even mentioned, where the information comes from.

I hope that this information is helpful to you Mac Smile
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Re: card readings et al

Post by Admin on Tue May 15, 2012 11:52 pm

Hi Jim LB,

To be a medium you must be a psychic so you need to exercise those skills and develop them. Even if you become a great psychic you may never develop mediumship. No idea why but possibly a major reason is that as a psychic you are in control as a medium you hand control to the Spirit. You function more as an observer. A psychic influences the information controlling it, a medium facilitates the communication acting only to ensure the material is presenetd in appropriate and sensitive ways.

Cards and exercises are means of focusing to allow you to relax and forget you. In both psychic and mediumship you need you out of the way to allow the energy to be used by your subconscious. Approaching Psychic that way gives you much more chance of becoming a medium later.

I use all of those to show people that everyone has an innate psychic skill. This helps them understand that there is much more to life than that we normally see.

Remember though a good many "psychics" are fooling themselves and their customers, either deliberately to help keep the person hooked, or accidentally because they are just mirroring their own sub conscious ideas.

We get back to the old point of mine, I am sad that Spiritualism has, by and large, lost its intelligence, thinking and discrimanatory powers. We allow it all in and relish the mix, failing to undersatand that thinkers will come in, run into channelled Angels, Ascended Maters, 2012 and ascension, then quietly walk away, especially with the low quality of addresses and poor mediumship/psychism thats out there. Wes has told us that having gone to Queensland he walked away to do his own thing because of just that.

This discussion that Mac raised gets to a core issue developing an understanding about nature of the psychic and the mediumship tyransaction. In the late 1800's early 1900's we had significant figures from the world of psychology (like William James) and science involeved with our movement. Since then Spiritualism has pointedly stepped away from this field, largely in a huff over challenges to mediums, leaving the whole field to parapsychologists, paranormal researchers and anamolous psychologists.

I have long thought that we need to reengage with this whole field but I suspect if those in it saw some of our offerings they would run a mile.

My approach is one that encourages people to use their mind to think and understand what is going on. Too often we want it either mystified and miraculous, or just wet, warm, fuzzy and just fun.
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Re: card readings et al

Post by mac on Wed May 16, 2012 7:37 am

Loneblossom wrote:
I'd like to hear what practitioners feel they are doing, the source of any information acquired..

I am not entirely sure, as I'm new to tarot, but at the moment I feel it's psychic/intuition. Like others have said earlier, the cards are a tool.

I'd also like to hear what enquirers felt about the readings they've had and where they thought any information came from.

I've had two readings. The last reading I had was a free reading that the reader was giving to everyone at a wellness centre that I worked at. I was sceptical at first (as it was an Angel Card reading and that seemed far to New Age-y to me) until the reader came up with things that were really personal and relevant to me. I cannot say for sure where all of her info came from. The reader said 'I can see this...I can feel this...' which, to me, indicated psychic ability but she also mentioned an angel looking out for me but I don't know if that was psychic or her having some connection with the angel and/or her guides. At the end of it I felt that there were areas of my life that I needed to look at, things to maybe change.

Those that I have done readings for have felt interested in gaining an insight to their lives, they sometimes like having a chat about issues (so counselling comes into it - I'm considering taking a counselling course to improve my skills in this area too). They have not mentioned or questioned where the information comes from.

Additionally I'd like to learn what benefit practitioners feel they are providing and what recipients feel they received.
As a 'trainee' reader I feel that tarot readings help the sitters to look at areas of their lives where there may be work to be done. Or to highlight things that the sitter may be blind or in denial about. I feel that it is a tool for self-development, not for fortune-telling.
My recipients have found the readings (to paraphrase from my 'trainee journal') accurate, uplifting, chillingly clear about their issue, helpful to see areas to change, interesting. None of them have questioned, or even mentioned, where the information comes from.

I hope that this information is helpful to you Mac Smile

Indeed it is and thank you. Without expressing my own ideas, we're not far apart.... Wink

mac


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Re: card readings et al

Post by Admin on Wed May 16, 2012 7:49 am

Interesting Mac I have an unusual set of cards which Lis bought for me. When I started they were the get out of jail free item if I was getting nothing although I never needed them I get people to randomly pick one which I look at at the end of a reading. I have stopped that now on most occasions.

Set up my intent on the morning before readings and now am used to just starting and going. Spend a lot of time monitoring psychic vs mediums i.e I have a person here..evidence etc full CERT procedure (Communicator Evidence, reason for being there and tying it up) however in a private reading I am aware you can slide off the link and go psychic. Therefore when I do I tell the client thats what is happening.

Strange only did readings for fund raisers. Then someone wanted a proof of survival reading, then another and they are now reccomending me so I seem to be doing 2 a week on average, purely through word of mouth.
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