Can Spirits no know how to reach us?

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Re: Can Spirits no know how to reach us?

Post by KatyKing on Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:00 pm

There's a Yorkshire lady medium working the £100 specials circuit on eastern side of England. She'll 'fish'.
'Hands up if you have someone in spirit who passed with a kidney/heart... condition'
and then work to raised hands.
Not especially convincing.
Something along the lines of....
'May I come to you sir /madam?'
... is much better IMHO.
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Re: Can Spirits no know how to reach us?

Post by Skye on Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:46 pm

Left Behind wrote:
zerdini wrote:
Left Behind wrote:Thereby in itself raising the evidentiary value of the reading.

Jim

No it doesn't. All it reveals is the ignorance of the questioner regarding Spiritualism. A proper study of the subject is required before rushing in with half-baked theories.

OK, Z. : two scenarios.

1) Here I am sitting in a Spiritualist church, third row of seats from the front, fourth seat to the left from the middle aisle. The medium says, "I'm seeing a man who passed to spirit about 30 years ago. I'm sensing that he was about 75 when he passed. I'm sensing that he had something to do with carpentry or woodworking in his earthly life. He has a tattoo on his upper right arm, a skull with a heart between two crossed swords. He says, tell my nephew I'm happy and in a better world now. Ask him if he remembers the day he fell in the pond when he was about 8."

Medium says, "Can anyone take this?"

Let's assume that all this is very meaningful to me. (Actually, I made it all up as I'm typing, Very Happy )

2) Same facts as above, but instead medium says, "I'm sensing that this message is for the man in the third row, fourth seat to my left."

Or the medium walks over to me and says, "I'm sensing that this message is for you", or words to that effect.

To my way of thinking, the second scenario would raise the evidentiary credibility level, by virtue of the fact that the medium not only had a message, but knew who it was meant for.

If you disagree, why?


Jim

Hi Jim, I know your question is for Z so I hope you don't mind me jumping in with my opinion?

If the medium came to me with the information mentioned in your post, I would say, I need more evidence before accepting it as a known spirit communicator.

My reasons are: It's too general to me because the information could apply to anyone in the room.

For instance, I am old enough to have had a male pass 30 years ago, who was around 75 years of age?
Carpentry or woodworking could relate to the building game?
The tattoo could relate to links with the sea - the male had a deep love of the navy?
The nephew - we are aware life in the spirit world is a better place than this earthly one. And a boy of 8 is likely to fall in a pond (fishing).
And it may simply be a psychic reading, even choosing you as a potential recipient.



Skye


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Re: Can Spirits no know how to reach us?

Post by zerdini on Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:49 pm

KatyKing wrote:There's a Yorkshire lady medium working the £100 specials circuit on eastern side of England. She'll 'fish'.
'Hands up if you have someone in spirit who passed with a kidney/heart... condition'
and then work to raised hands.
Not especially convincing.
Something along the lines of....
'May I come to you sir /madam?'
... is much better IMHO.

All that is required is to do as Hunter Selkirk did or Estelle Roberts or Helen Hughes........no flannel or asking unnecessary questions.

zerdini


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Re: Can Spirits no know how to reach us?

Post by KatyKing on Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:09 pm

Aye. KISS =Keep it Simple Spiritualist.
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Re: Can Spirits no know how to reach us?

Post by Left Behind on Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:25 pm

zerdini wrote:It's very easy to reply to you, Jim.

Instead of making up a hypothetical case let us look at an actual demonstration before 500 people. The medium was Hunter Selkirk:

Speaking to a lady at the side of Mrs Jack he said: ‘Your Auntie is here and your husband, too; he wants you to stop fretting, to buck up and catch the sunshine.’

There’s a young girl here who wants her mother; it is for you, madam,” indicating a lady in the audience.

“Pointing to another lady he said:

“Speaking to another lady and gentleman, he said


“Speaking to another lady, he said: ‘There’s a young girl for you,

“To another member of the audience, Mr Selkirk described an old lady of 89 years of age



So there's six instances where the medium purposely directed his comments to a specific person. I contend that this bolstered the evidentiary value. Why do you contend that it didn't?

Jim

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Re: Can Spirits no know how to reach us?

Post by Left Behind on Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:35 pm

Skye wrote:
Left Behind wrote:
zerdini wrote:
Left Behind wrote:Thereby in itself raising the evidentiary value of the reading.

Jim

No it doesn't. All it reveals is the ignorance of the questioner regarding Spiritualism. A proper study of the subject is required before rushing in with half-baked theories.

OK, Z. : two scenarios.

1) Here I am sitting in a Spiritualist church, third row of seats from the front, fourth seat to the left from the middle aisle. The medium says, "I'm seeing a man who passed to spirit about 30 years ago. I'm sensing that he was about 75 when he passed. I'm sensing that he had something to do with carpentry or woodworking in his earthly life. He has a tattoo on his upper right arm, a skull with a heart between two crossed swords. He says, tell my nephew I'm happy and in a better world now. Ask him if he remembers the day he fell in the pond when he was about 8."

Medium says, "Can anyone take this?"

Let's assume that all this is very meaningful to me. (Actually, I made it all up as I'm typing, Very Happy )

2) Same facts as above, but instead medium says, "I'm sensing that this message is for the man in the third row, fourth seat to my left."

Or the medium walks over to me and says, "I'm sensing that this message is for you", or words to that effect.

To my way of thinking, the second scenario would raise the evidentiary credibility level, by virtue of the fact that the medium not only had a message, but knew who it was meant for.

If you disagree, why?


Jim

Hi Jim, I know your question is for Z so I hope you don't mind me jumping in with my opinion?

If the medium came to me with the information mentioned in your post, I would say, I need more evidence before accepting it as a known spirit communicator.

My reasons are: It's too general to me because the information could apply to anyone in the room.

For instance, I am old enough to have had a male pass 30 years ago, who was around 75 years of age?
Carpentry or woodworking could relate to the building game?
The tattoo could relate to links with the sea - the male had a deep love of the navy?
The nephew - we are aware life in the spirit world is a better place than this earthly one. And a boy of 8 is likely to fall in a pond (fishing).
And it may simply be a psychic reading, even choosing you as a potential recipient.



Yes, my hypothetical is admittedly a poor one, Peter. Mentioning a message for "he" could really narrow it down, if I was one of the few - or the only! Laughing - males in the room. And then he could have been playing games trying to tailor ages in the hypo to match mine.

Psychic readings. . . wouldn't I have to be thinking about the person/situation mentioned for the medium to pick up on that?

But I still think that having identified a specific recipient boosts credibility. If he just glanced at me, and concocted a story that he figured I'd bite one, and publicly identified me as the intended recipient: wouldn't he look foolish if I told him, "No, sorry, non of that makes any sense to me"?

Jim

Left Behind


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Re: Can Spirits no know how to reach us?

Post by zerdini on Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:16 am

Left Behind wrote:
zerdini wrote:It's very easy to reply to you, Jim.

Instead of making up a hypothetical case let us look at an actual demonstration before 500 people. The medium was Hunter Selkirk:

Speaking to a lady at the side of Mrs Jack he said: ‘Your Auntie is here and your husband, too; he wants you to stop fretting, to buck up and catch the sunshine.’

There’s a young girl here who wants her mother; it is for you, madam,” indicating a lady in the audience.

“Pointing to another lady he said:

“Speaking to another lady and gentleman, he said


“Speaking to another lady, he said: ‘There’s a young girl for you,

“To another member of the audience, Mr Selkirk described an old lady of 89 years of age



So there's six instances where the medium purposely directed his comments to a specific person. I contend that this bolstered the evidentiary value. Why do you contend that it didn't?

Jim


That is exactly my point, Jim.

Read the demonstration again. Facts not hypotheses.

zerdini


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Re: Can Spirits no know how to reach us?

Post by Left Behind on Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:32 pm

OK then, Z. : you used an actual demonstration, I used a hypothetical one: but we're in agreement on the point that as a general rule, a given message which the medium directs to a specific, identified person in the audience is thereby of greater evidentiary value than the same message, simply thrown out to the audience to see if someone takes it. Yes?

Jim

Left Behind


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Re: Can Spirits no know how to reach us?

Post by zerdini on Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:49 pm

Left Behind wrote:OK then, Z. : you used an actual demonstration, I used a hypothetical one: but we're in agreement on the point that as a general rule, a given message which the medium directs to a specific, identified person in the audience is thereby of greater evidentiary value than the same message, simply thrown out to the audience to see if someone takes it. Yes?

Jim

Precisely my point, Jim.

That is why I cited an actual demonstration of the continuity of life rather than a hypothetical one. Smile

zerdini


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Re: Can Spirits no know how to reach us?

Post by KatyKing on Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:53 pm

NIcky Alan on form tonight. Goes to a lady newcomer [who told me the story a couple of hours ago]. Gives names. Dates. Circumstances. Very specific and all accepted. That's proper evidential mediumship. No fishing or supplementary questions. Straight in,give it and move on. That lady was asking about meeting times because she wants to come again.
If there's good mediumship on offer folk will come.
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Re: Can Spirits no know how to reach us?

Post by Admin on Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:13 am

If there's good mediumship on offer folk will come.

absolutely KK
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Re: Can Spirits no know how to reach us?

Post by Left Behind on Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:25 am

KatyKing wrote:NIcky Alan on form tonight. Goes to a lady newcomer [who told me the story a couple of hours ago]. Gives names. Dates. Circumstances. Very specific and all accepted. That's proper evidential mediumship. No fishing or supplementary questions. Straight in,give it and move on. That lady was asking about meeting times because she wants to come again.
If there's good mediumship on offer folk will come.

Very Happy

Jim

Left Behind


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Re: Can Spirits no know how to reach us?

Post by KatyKing on Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:33 am

Two phone calls already this morning asking when we're having Nick Alan back. A nice 'buzz' and it will be interesting to see if we have larger attendance tomorrow as a result.
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Re: Can Spirits no know how to reach us?

Post by petal34 on Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:05 pm

KatyKing wrote:NIcky Alan on form tonight. Goes to a lady newcomer [who told me the story a couple of hours ago]. Gives names. Dates. Circumstances. Very specific and all accepted. That's proper evidential mediumship. No fishing or supplementary questions. Straight in,give it and move on. That lady was asking about meeting times because she wants to come again.
If there's good mediumship on offer folk will come.

Pity you couldn't make it to our spiritualist church,KK.
We could with some good mediums there,sadly lacking at the moment.
Sad
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Re: Can Spirits no know how to reach us?

Post by KatyKing on Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:20 pm

How kind.
I would recommend Nicky Alan but I suspect it needs a big seating capacity church like ours to get enough in to make it pay. These big names usually have a quite high minimum fee. No idea what she charges but know we've done well out of it.
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