thrown open

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thrown open

Post by mac on Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:30 pm

I'm interested in what mediums think about the following.

In certain forums I've seen practitioners throw out information that they say came to them in various ways. Kinda like evidential mediumship but without a sitter and without any way of identifying the communicator - whoever wants to grab the message can do.

How do 'regular' evidential mediums feel about that technique?

mac


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Re: thrown open

Post by KatyKing on Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:43 pm

I'd have said can't be done, until recently. Not so sure now.
Possibly depends on the mediums' guides.
Reckon you need a sitter 'actually present' for best results though.
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Re: thrown open

Post by mac on Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:45 pm

KatyKing wrote:I'd have said can't be done, until recently. Not so sure now.
Possibly depends on the mediums' guides.
Reckon you need a sitter 'actually present' for best results though.

So what, recently, gave you second thoughts?

mac


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Re: thrown open

Post by KatyKing on Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:57 pm

Couldn't say but twas thought provoking.
Not being coy mac.
Confidentiality issues involved.
Rule of thumb remains, for me anyway;... sitter should be there for clear link and sound evidence.
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Re: thrown open

Post by bravo321uk on Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:04 pm

My brain really must be on go slow,, cos i am misunderstanding... can you give a brief example please mac?

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Re: thrown open

Post by mac on Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:47 pm

bravo321uk wrote:My brain really must be on go slow,, cos i am misunderstanding... can you give a brief example please mac?

Typically it's like the beginning of an evidential medium's sitting but without an enquirer present to listen and respond.

So the member will write that they've had such and such information from a discarnate who they then describe a little, and then add other snippets of information.

The member then throws it all open to anyone who wants to take the details and/or message etc.

mac


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Re: thrown open

Post by mac on Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:54 pm

KatyKing wrote:Couldn't say but twas thought provoking.
Not being coy mac.
Confidentiality issues involved.
Rule of thumb remains, for me anyway;... sitter should be there for clear link and sound evidence.

I understand....

mac


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Re: thrown open

Post by bravo321uk on Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:08 pm

Thankyou hopefully im understanding ha
I use a site like that,, and its actually the site rules,, to offer to everyone and then provide evidence to seperate,,
There are mediums that use that approach off the platform also.
Personally I prefer to work direct as I believe that there is evidence within the direct approach.. but then I also believe it is down to your development.. as the lady that helps me with mine was a hard task master,,, and I would dare not say i didnt know who spirit had come for as i would have been told" if spirit have made the effort to come.. then you make the effort to place them"
But at the same time.. direct or indirect... it all depends on the quality of the evidence.



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Re: thrown open

Post by mac on Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:14 pm

"Thankyou hopefully im understanding ha
I use a site like that,, and its actually the site rules,, to offer to everyone and then provide evidence to seperate,,"

Not exactly - it's not a website that provides that service....

These are regular websites, regular forums, but every so often a member will do as I described. There's no attempt to find the correct recipient (if indeed the details are for anyone on the website) and not necessarily any follow-on from the original message/details/information.

I find it very unconvincing....

mac


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Re: thrown open

Post by KatyKing on Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:16 pm

Sounds a bit cold readingish that mac.
Saw a Xtian chap doing similar on TV once...
Someone here with a lame leg..........
hands shot up.
Then he built from that..... general stuff that could fit most people and kept moving across audience as more and more claimed what he said.
Grand finale he had them come to front and put his hand on their head. They were dropping like flies.
Seen similar without the falling over at a seminar show at Body Mind Spirit exhibition.
Demmer there was billed as a 'psychic medium'. I reckoned she was neither just an adept cold reader.
Funny this came up tonight. Mrs. K watchs a TV show called The Mentalist [I have no idea] chap in that apparently was doing a cold reading show and forcing choices of message in a box amomgst boxes routine. She was only talking about that this tea time cos magic was a hobby of mine and I showed her how to work forced choice one time..
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Re: thrown open

Post by mac on Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:25 pm

Difference is that there's no feedback from the audience to develop any further reading.... It's simply a 'message' just posted on the forum with an invitation to anyone who can take it.

I'm sayin' nowt because I'm always getting in hot water when I won't accept without solid evidence. I can readily find weaknesses but I'm truly passionate about quality evidential mediumship.

This time I wanted to hear what practitioners had to say.....

mac


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Re: thrown open

Post by bravo321uk on Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:28 pm

ahhh gpt ya now mac ty.x

Sorry to sound so blunt... But That Imo Is nonsense.. and is one of many reasons why the integrity of mediums as a whole gets pulled apart by some sceptics.. So many have the want through the ego... to be classed as mediums without actually doing the work... they dont realize the damage they do fobbing there inner child off as spirit communication

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Re: thrown open

Post by KatyKing on Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:34 pm

Very Happy
Like this?
There's someone on here desperate to know how to force a choice.....
Can anyone take that mystic message?
:-)
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Re: thrown open

Post by mac on Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:42 pm

bravo321uk wrote:ahhh gpt ya now mac ty.x

Sorry to sound so blunt... But That Imo Is nonsense.. and is one of many reasons why the integrity of mediums as a whole gets pulled apart by some sceptics.. So many have the want through the ego... to be classed as mediums without actually doing the work... they dont realize the damage they do fobbing there inner child off as spirit communication

Many of these practitioners that I am speaking about - you note I won't call 'em 'mediums' - have little understanding of matters of the spirit. I know that because they're regulars on my forum boards and I've often 'engaged' with 'em about 'stuff' that I expect they should know about. They write so much drivel that I know they're not evidential mediums and may be nothing more than sensitives or psychics.

But that's another issue and I don't want to get in more more hot water.

mac


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Re: thrown open

Post by KatyKing on Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:14 pm

Alice St church a SNU cause in Oregon USA bills intuitives as patform workers and has a palmist on the staff. We'e been chatting about that under Lis article on Hydesville on PN site.
I'm an old school medium mac. Very traditional in what I do and how I do it. But my attitude these days is... let a thousand flowers bloom...
Our Progressive church has card readers etc at tea with Spirit socials and folk flock in. Some come back for regular meetings too.
We can't insist on what used to pass for orthodoxy because times change and folk simply vote with their feet. Party line.... 'this is what must be' attitudes......that you get on such as SNUi forum are fair enough it's their playground and they own the keys. But on general sites you'll find all sorts and conditions same as you do in most Spiritualist churches and centres even SNU ones these days such as Alice Street www.churchofalice.org
No one can be argued out of or into a belief. Best thing about evidential mediumship is that it is personally convincing. But for people to be able to be convinced you have to get them through the doors first and if that takes tarot or Reiki sessions or Yoga... whatever then its all to the good. Once they get a taste for attending and meet church folk some of 'em stick around and church grows when before too long they meet an old evidential medium and their ball really gets rolling.
Jim Admin takes a different view and that's fine. Spiritualism is dynamic not static always has been with room for all.
I have enjoyed this thread so far mac. Thank you for starting it.
Bed time now........
L&L to all.
Spirit will blow where Spirit listeth
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Re: thrown open

Post by Admin on Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:38 am

No one can be argued out of or into a belief. Best thing about evidential mediumship is that it is personally convincing. But for people to be able to be convinced you have to get them through the doors first and if that takes tarot or Reiki sessions or Yoga... whatever then its all to the good. Once they get a taste for attending and meet church folk some of 'em stick around and church grows when before too long they meet an old evidential medium and their ball really gets rolling.
Jim Admin takes a different view and that's fine. Spiritualism is dynamic not static always has been with room for all.

I think if you had experience of Australia you would realise teh inherent dangers of just pulling them through the doors. If the staple of what you offer is the stuff that attracts them why would they even want anything else. Indeed, many independent organisations start doing that to get people in and then the original organisers are outside looking in at another non Spiritualist spiritual centre.

If you want to go that way you need to ensure that the real Mediumship and the real Philosophy you provide engages their hearts and minds so that they learn. That is my basis for disagreement Katy, I agree that at times you need to draw people so the psychic days etc help but the core of the organisation needs to be strong enough to protect the reason for existence.

Otherwise open up as a spiritual centre, clearly all inclusive and whilst potentially retaining some interest in Spiritualism do not say that is what teh centre is about.
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Re: thrown open

Post by mac on Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:33 am

The proof of this particular pudding will be, as always, in its eating....

KK has one formula which appears to do the biz for his own center/church. Jim finds a different situation in his.....

If KK's is more successful in promoting Spiritualism's message of survival and communication through mediumship then I'll buy into his approach. Churches and centres don't belong to any one person or any one group of individuals and maybe change from the traditional approach can achieve greater success, however that's measured.

Jim's center has a different way and the same criterion applies as far as I'm concerned. If it's successful works in the way he wants, then that's also fine.

Over the recent years I've often declared that my belief is that Modern Spiritualism has run its course. Maybe KK's system will be the new direction for Spiritualism to go if it's going to have relevance in the future? Maybe Jim with his traditional approach is still the best way to get across the traditional message? I'm not fussed provided there's no dilution of, no compromise over, what Spiritualism has always represented.

Perhaps we need Harry Hill's TV Burp (sorry, Jim, you won't know what that is) to organise the fight about which is better? Razz Laughing

mac


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Re: thrown open

Post by KatyKing on Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:02 pm

Nah no need to do a Harry Hill type FIGHT...[I love those he had God v the Devil one time].
I reckon Jim is right. Easy to slide into some new agey centre but our church is mindful of that. The heart of what we are about is very old fashioned Spiritualism with evidential meiumship and Spiritual Healing as our bedrock foundation. Hopefully Alice St is the same. Will let you know if take up eirefox Mike's kind invite. I do fancy Camp New Era and have a bit put by due to giving SNU AGM beanfeast a miss this year due to bookings.
The Independents are most vulnerable to dilution. They are always small numbers and glad of new blood and if that new blood has whacky ideas and brings its mates along then before you know it the church gets taken over then turns into a tarot coven or physical circus tent cum clip joint a la 'L'enny's flying trumpet Sanctuary .
We have ten mediums and Elle Presidente plus her committee capos to keep church on the straight and narrow. The social stuff is just window dressing to get folk interested.
You would not believe just how old fashioned some of us in this neck of the woods actually are are. For platform work I wear a waistcoat plus my old grandad's pocket watch and chain and thee-thou Spirit in public prayers. This you do NOT get on sartorially, dragged through a hedge backwards... 'Spirit we just wanna thank U' - SNU platforms :-)
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Re: thrown open

Post by _Leslie_ on Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:19 pm

mac wrote:I'm interested in what mediums think about the following.

In certain forums I've seen practitioners throw out information that they say came to them in various ways. Kinda like evidential mediumship but without a sitter and without any way of identifying the communicator - whoever wants to grab the message can do.

How do 'regular' evidential mediums feel about that technique?

This may be done for a number of reasons;
One.. Because the 'medium' has a connection - but is unsure of the 'recipient'. This can of course be the result of numerous other reasons - such as the lack of energy available either by the medium / messenger / location or a combination of all. The messenger only being what I term an 'Enabler' - as in they enable the connection for partly the reasons previously stated. The inability of the 'medium' or indeed the inability of the 'messenger' irrespective of the energy available to create a viable connection until a link with the recipient is made. Then of course 'I've no idea... so lets go fishing' possibility.
Secondly.. This may be the only way in which the 'Medium' and their communicators have learned to work together, and as such (or until the medium and the other side develop a different working relationship) the only means they have of creating a link.
Thirdly.. The 'Medium' knows very well 'who' the message is intended for. And simply uses this method to keep the others in the congregation / audience 'on their toes' and participating with the demonstration - as opposed to going direct continuously and them feeling left out or perhaps bored Wink
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Re: thrown open

Post by KatyKing on Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:21 pm

Very Happy [Pre-emption this].....
Yes, that's all. Just watch and waistcoat!
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Re: thrown open

Post by KatyKing on Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:29 pm

Good point Les.
When possible I try to work fast and snappy so most get something but sometimes its just not there for so many and you have to work the room. Nothing worse than three fifteen minute messages in one meeting and everyone else glazing over and considering chewing off their own arm just to relieve the boredom.
Save long links for 1-2-1s
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Re: thrown open

Post by mac on Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:38 pm

_Leslie_ wrote:
mac wrote:I'm interested in what mediums think about the following.

In certain forums I've seen practitioners throw out information that they say came to them in various ways. Kinda like evidential mediumship but without a sitter and without any way of identifying the communicator - whoever wants to grab the message can do.

How do 'regular' evidential mediums feel about that technique?

This may be done for a number of reasons;
One.. Because the 'medium' has a connection - but is unsure of the 'recipient'. This can of course be the result of numerous other reasons - such as the lack of energy available either by the medium / messenger / location or a combination of all. The messenger only being what I term an 'Enabler' - as in they enable the connection for partly the reasons previously stated. The inability of the 'medium' or indeed the inability of the 'messenger' irrespective of the energy available to create a viable connection until a link with the recipient is made. Then of course 'I've no idea... so lets go fishing' possibility.
Secondly.. This may be the only way in which the 'Medium' and their communicators have learned to work together, and as such (or until the medium and the other side develop a different working relationship) the only means they have of creating a link.
Thirdly.. The 'Medium' knows very well 'who' the message is intended for. And simply uses this method to keep the others in the congregation / audience 'on their toes' and participating with the demonstration - as opposed to going direct continuously and them feeling left out or perhaps bored Wink

In the context I gave your first suggestions might well be possible but not as in the final paragraph - there is no audience or congregation.

mac


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Re: thrown open

Post by _Leslie_ on Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:02 pm

mac wrote:<SNIP>

In the context I gave your first suggestions might well be possible but not as in the final paragraph - there is no audience or congregation.
If you're unable to see a likeness of those sitting and participating in a forum - to that of an audience, then I truly don't think you'll ever find an answer to anything 'you' seek Mac (and I mean that in a none confrontational, but subjective manner).
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Re: thrown open

Post by mac on Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:18 pm

_Leslie_ wrote:
mac wrote:

In the context I gave your first suggestions might well be possible but not as in the final paragraph - there is no audience or congregation.
If you're unable to see a likeness of those sitting and participating in a forum - to that of an audience, then I truly don't think you'll ever find an answer to anything 'you' seek Mac (and I mean that in a none confrontational, but subjective manner).

This isn't confrontational either, Les, but I was asking about the scenario I had detailed....

I'm more-than-familiar with the situation of an audience or congregation viz: ".....simply uses this method to keep the others in the congregation /
audience 'on their toes' and participating with the demonstration - as
opposed to going direct continuously and them feeling left out or
perhaps bored
to the forum situation I had described." I don't feel that was comparable to the scenario I asked about but you did and I accept your view.

I'm not actually trying to find, quote: "....an answer to anything 'you' seek..." so much as asking the views of mediums about the very specific situations I have seen on certain forum boards.

I did feel the first suggestions you made had great merit and were directly relevant as I indicated earlier. Naturally these are my views and hence subjective.

mac


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Re: thrown open

Post by _Leslie_ on Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:00 pm

Even though I work as a medium, this is something I've deliberated upon in the past myself. Admittedly my deliberations were not in the context of a forum - they was along the lines of, email and telephone readings (something, just as a point of note, I do not undertake). But non the less, I'm hoping similar enough in context to that which you mentioned...

Without going into great depths relating to the mechanics of mediumship - nor professing to be fully conversant with them Wink My own deliberations led me to the conclusion that since there is 'no' psychical between the 'communicator' and the 'medium' then why should there be one between the 'Medium' and the 'Recipient'? After all, absent healing can work just as well with the 'absence' of the 'recipient', therefore why couldn't mediumship?

Yes some mediums ask for that 'voice' link as they need a vibrational connection, however, that once again my be the limitation of their development. Personal, I don't rely on voice links - even though I am heavily interested in 'vibration' and harmonics as a part of communication (but that's another discussion Wink ).
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