Why aren't more members posting?

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Re: Why aren't more members posting?

Post by mac on Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:19 pm

KatyKing wrote:Shaky ground mac. That old L&R brain hypothesis has been blown out of the water since tomography. Physiologically its a dead duck. For psychological discourse it'll stand, just.
Better personality types descriptors are available.
'Honey and Mumford' to Google for more if interested.

Wasn't my hypothesis and I hadn't agreed it was a valid one.... Only suggested I appeared to have the opposite of Jim's outlook based on what he'd said.

I follow the psychological stuff in 'SA Mind' and others but that's a separate interest in many ways.

mac


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Re: Why aren't more members posting?

Post by KatyKing on Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:08 pm

Very Happy Fair comment. Bit left brain of me that previous post.
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Re: Why aren't more members posting?

Post by Admin on Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:26 am

The blog idea is quite good and I believe one can be incorporated on here but it will take me time to work it out.

In terms of posting Stephen and Loneblossom, people on here are normally good in their replies and I do tend to watch the tone of posting.

Like Mac says he and I are fairly determined traditional Modern Spiritualists, which this forum is about. However, we do respect others ideas unless they approach them in either the wrong manner or try and force them down our throats. WCC the Third is just an oddball I have my suspicions about where he came from but I have not finished looking into the matter.

I will sometimes edit really bad posts and others I will often move into a private area of the forum where I can ensure they are not edited again and I can keep a better tag on the poster if they return on some other name.

So I really hope that people can post on here with only the minor disagreements that can happen anywhere in life. At times I will let these run their course but normally others stay away from the thread, it can be a bit difficult to intervene when two longer term members who I respect are in dispute lol Very Happy
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Re: Why aren't more members posting?

Post by Loneblossom on Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:26 am

LOL, you have an unenviable job Mr Admin! Smile

Thanks guys. I'll now grow a pair, steel myself and dive right in then...
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Re: Why aren't more members posting?

Post by obiwan on Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:34 am

mac wrote:
obiwan wrote:It is perfectly possible to post here without being worried about criticism. It depends what the objective of the posting is. For example asking a question rarely prompts criticism here and I think you will find most of the regular posters would quickly support a person asking an honest question if anyone else was rude.

Making assertions about facts aren't a problem if one is sure of one's facts however if one isn't, it is a good idea to phrase comments accordingly.

Expressing an opinion always runs the risk of encountering someone who disagrees. So it is useful to understand why one holds a particular belief before posting about it. Disagreement is usually an opportunity to learn.

Ridicule is never acceptable and doesn't advance a debate however I don't think you will find many examples of ridicule here. It can be a question of perception though, what one person sees as a robust challenge another will see as an insult or ridicule. If you think someone is rude say why you think so, if they can't help it or won't modify their behaviour, simply ignore them.

Fear is the mind killer. To quote James Herbert (I think, though I am happy to be corrected). Don't let fear stop you asking questions or testing what you think is a fact. We will all learn something. If what you say turns out to be wrong don't worry about it. If we simply post about what we believe and don't want to hear alternative views I don't think it will be very productive, though it may be therapeutic for some.

It also depends what one means by 'criticism'. If you mean 'I don't want anyone to challenge what I say or question me about it' I think that is unrealistic and I can't see the point of it. How a posting is challenged though is definitely an important consideration since we are all learning. Be brave Very Happy

I agree with skfarblum in that when a person is new to the subject, they ask questions and share experiences in order to learn. This is good for everyone concerned no matter how much they may think they know. Even for those who know a lot about the subject, to teach is to learn twice as they say.

Personally I am not a fan of threads where people can say whatever they like and not have it questioned - but that's only my opinion Smile

I stand in awe of my duck friend's contribution - clear and concise as usual. Smile I hesitate to add anything other than the remarks mirror my own.

So often, though, I read the most absurd claims or ideas but then am roundly told-off for challenging what's been said. For me a discussion forum is an open house to challenge, debate or discuss points made and, equally, a place to answer questions. I don't want to read a web log of personal thoughts, ideas, beliefs or experiences - if I did I'd read blogs. I don't want to read a blog instead of a considered response to whatever ideas I present. But all too often a blog is what I get with no reference to earlier points, questions or challenges.

enough already
<genuflects> Very Happy

obiwan


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Re: Why aren't more members posting?

Post by KatyKing on Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:11 pm

IMHO we get a fair balance on here and Jim Admin does a good job in identifying potential troublemakers. We can self edit what we choose to read.
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Re: Why aren't more members posting?

Post by mac on Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:37 pm

KatyKing wrote:IMHO we get a fair balance on here and Jim Admin does a good job in identifying potential troublemakers. We can self edit what we choose to read.

I appreciate the way that Jim doesn't routinely moderate disagreements. On some websites disagreement or challenge to views expressed is seen as 'disrespectful'. This may encourage members to complain to moderators by claiming that any challenges to what they say is disrespectful. It's an easy way to silence other members, particularly when there's an active clique.

Self-editing is fine provided forum-rule observance has been heeded by contributors - if you can't deal with what someone's saying you can choose not to respond.

But where offensiveness has been deliberate (as recently) then I'm all for website-owner or moderator involvement.

mac


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Re: Why aren't more members posting?

Post by _Leslie_ on Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:16 pm

I came here with an open mind, enjoyed what I read and learned a great deal. In fact, I'm on record here as saying how much I enjoy this forum.

And that still stands today today, even though I've now become a little wiser perhaps, having (I think) identified the wofflers, clique and those who remind me of kids in a school ground (you remember them, the ones who stand on the side laughing and joking while the bullies set upon someone) only here they post little one liners...

Yes there are those here, just as there are in any group who have no substance or practical knowledge, yet having read a book, or perhaps having associated in the presence of another (more famous than they) - feel that such activity and association deems them 'qualified' or grand than the rest... but hey that's life - who are they really kidding?

Can't remember the exact words, but someone once wrote along the lines of "spiritualism doesn't scare me - but spiritualist do" and how very true reading some of these post that statement becomes...

And no, before the self pontificating and school yard crew decide to descend upon me - I don't profess to know everything, yes I do make mistakes. Yes, playing 'Devils Advocate' is a trait I slip into very easily, but so what? Just because I may not agree, bow in your presence or think that every time you move your lips pure bliss is poring from them - so what?

We're sentient beings and removing our choice, our freedom to express ourselves isn't censorship, its just down right 'un spiritual' regardless of what label or badge you wear.

Can't we just agree to disagree and move own (without throwing the teddy's out of the pram Wink ). Because I for one - still like it hear and still think there is a lot here I can learn from!
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Re: Why aren't more members posting?

Post by mac on Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:30 pm

"Can't we just agree to disagree and move own (without throwing the teddy's out of the pram"

Is anyone advocating anything else?

mac


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Re: Why aren't more members posting?

Post by skfarblum on Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:46 pm

As this conversation seems to be a good one.I would like to ask a
question.
Repeatedly I have tried to explain that the only fact anybody can be
reasonably sure of is that they exist i.e I-am and all experiences and
appearances are contained with in this simple fact and all spiritualistic
experiences should be seen from this point.
Yet I feel I am greeted with ridicule as being some sort of idiot by
spiritualists.
Please explain to me.What is it that provokes people?
Thanking you humbly
Stephen
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Re: Why aren't more members posting?

Post by KatyKing on Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:54 pm

Ah but who is it doing the knowing my profound friend?
Might the perceptual 'I/me' be naught more than a dream or emanation from the mind of Spirit?
Alan Watts is yer man for this sort of thing. Read and enjoy.
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Re: Why aren't more members posting?

Post by skfarblum on Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:30 pm

Dear KatyKing,
Thanks.I have read Watts.I never could really see things his way.
I quite agree with you the roots of "I-am" lie in spirit.
Spirit to me is an unknowingness.The knowledge of being comes for me
at I-am.I use the word I-am only because I have no other way of describing it.
Perhaps if I say" I am that in which all appearances appear may help."
And dear KatyKing,there is nothing profound about this or me.
It just seems like good common sense.After all everything seems to relative
to me.
I learnt some of this from Stewart Edward White in the book "The Unobstructed Universe".You may know it.
His late wife Betty had come through their good friend Joan and had asked
the question what is the one thing you can be certain off?
She very emphatically emphasized that it was that sense of "I-am"
She went on to explain one of the most important things humans need to
develop is a strong sense of this "I" as a core-self as this is what aids us
when we depart this body.
In "The Betty Book" and in "Across the Unknown"The Invisbles"(these were her guides)
again and again insisted that to
confront this core-self is an essential in our spiritual growth.Although nobody would force this realization on us.
Stephen
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Re: Why aren't more members posting?

Post by mac on Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:21 pm

skfarblum wrote:As this conversation seems to be a good one.I would like to ask a
question.
Repeatedly I have tried to explain that the only fact anybody can be
reasonably sure of is that they exist i.e I-am and all experiences and
appearances are contained with in this simple fact and all spiritualistic
experiences should be seen from this point.
Yet I feel I am greeted with ridicule as being some sort of idiot by
spiritualists.
Please explain to me.What is it that provokes people?
Thanking you humbly
Stephen

I've not seen that you're being, quote: "greeted with ridicule as being some sort of idiot by
spiritualists." Maybe that's the attitude of certain individuals but I'm a Spiritualist and I don't see you that way. But I will - and I do - challenge what you say based on what I understand, from what I've learned, as a Spiritualist and also from what I've learned from other, related sources. I find your prescriptive approach, quote: "the only fact anybody can be reasonably sure of is that they exist i.e I-am and all experiences and appearances are contained with in this simple fact and all spiritualistic experiences should be seen from this point." doesn't sit well with me because I don't like anyone telling me how I should, or should not, be approaching a matter.... I don't do that to others and expect that it's not done to me.

Beyond that I'm totally prepared for others to say how it is for them but keeping in mind that this is a website, quote: "....for Spiritualists and those interested in learning more about the Religion, Philosophy, Science and Truth of the Spiritualist Movement." it's perhaps less-than-appropriate to bring matters here which don't come under this umbrella.

I wouldn't go to a website whose speciality was another religion etc. and explain my position as a Spiritualist, or question/challenge a philosophy, as a Spiritualist and not expect to be challenged in return. If I did that as an enquirer, as someone wishing to understand someone else's religion or philosophy, then I would hope for a different response. That's also my position with enquirers into Spiritualism and my approach on this and other websites and forums.

Does that sound reasonable?


Last edited by mac on Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:21 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Why aren't more members posting?

Post by KatyKing on Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:25 pm

Don't know those books skfar but from your easy to follow precis it sounds to me like down home ol' time Spiritualism.
I'm sure that you'll find that you are amongst your own kind of folks on here. Welcome aboard.
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Re: Why aren't more members posting?

Post by KatyKing on Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:38 pm

I uppose if we accept survival of individual self then its as well to know who that self is as best we can before we pass over but without the implicit selfishness of,say;Watts navel gazing .
I'm no good example to speak of but maybe if we aim to do more for others with less of self on this side perhaps we might build a better mansion in summerland.
That'll be my childhood Lyceum indoctriation talking no doubt but it is a kinder path to walk than some other lifeways.
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Re: Why aren't more members posting?

Post by zerdini on Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:38 pm

skfarblum wrote:Dear KatyKing,
Thanks.I have read Watts.I never could really see things his way.
I quite agree with you the roots of "I-am" lie in spirit.
Spirit to me is an unknowingness.The knowledge of being comes for me
at I-am.I use the word I-am only because I have no other way of describing it.
Perhaps if I say" I am that in which all appearances appear may help."
And dear KatyKing,there is nothing profound about this or me.
It just seems like good common sense.After all everything seems to relative
to me.
I learnt some of this from Stewart Edward White in the book "The Unobstructed Universe".You may know it.
His late wife Betty had come through their good friend Joan and had asked
the question what is the one thing you can be certain off?
She very emphatically emphasized that it was that sense of "I-am"
She went on to explain one of the most important things humans need to
develop is a strong sense of this "I" as a core-self as this is what aids us
when we depart this body.
In "The Betty Book" and in "Across the Unknown"The Invisbles"(these were her guides)
again and again insisted that to
confront this core-self is an essential in our spiritual growth.Although nobody would force this realization on us.
Stephen

Stephen, I read Stewart Edward White's books more than fifty years ago about the same time as my introduction to Spiritualism.

His wife was a medium.

I'm glad you found them helpful in your spiritual search.

zerdini


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Re: Why aren't more members posting?

Post by skfarblum on Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:47 am

Dear All,
Thank you.
Mac ,I agree with what you wrote.Good lesson for me.I
will in the future attempt to be more careful.
I approached Modern Spiritualism to explore if
this business of the "I-am" could be confirmed by spirit Teachers.
I wanted to learn if indeed this philosophy could be validated
after departing the body and if it would help me after death.
My own feeling is after much exploring and trying it out on
myself that such a philosophy can benefit the soul in its
transition to the afterlife.
I would like to give a short list of books which others may find of use
if they are interested in pursuing this subject.

The Open Door by Theon Wright
All of the "Betty Books" by Stewart Edward White
Beyond the Himalayas by Dr Murdo MacDonald-Bayne
The Impersonal Life by Joseph Brenner
I am That by Nisargadatta.
Thank you all,once again and I hope that this may be of use to someone
Stephen
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Re: Why aren't more members posting?

Post by hiorta on Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:01 am

S, I would have no concerns regarding identity or what might be of use, post mortem.
'I am' - what exactly?
Am I the exact same as 20 years ago? Outwardly some change, though inwardly, major change. I'd suggest this is the way for those who are attracted to this site of like minds. What is tangible to us is ephemeral to Spirit and the reverse of course, according to SB.

Just over a year ago I had a rare conversation with a relative who subscribes heavily to a Baptist outlook. As we were very like-minded many years ago and our arranged meeting was cordial, I ventured the idea that a lady now in Spirit - my sister, her mother - was very much to the fore. (her presence on the occasion was palpable) and suggested that in fact, she had never seen her mother, only the physical body occupied by her.
I was endeavouring to stimulate thought beyond Holy Books.

We were in a small local tearoom and suddenly her mother transfigured her, displayng her features so clearly in normal light.
This raises several points of interest - my neice, a university something or other and a teacher to trade, is mediumistic (no surpise there), but as my sister passed from a sudden and unexpected brain haemorage and presumably as this was her first return, the accompanying pain would have been severely felt by her daughter. A frightening experience for her, for anyone in such unusual circumstances. The medical check-up would reveal nothing and bring puzzlement.

Our meeting ended abruptly at that point and arrangements to contact at a later date were never kept. There is no contact whatever now. Strange how Religion affects the superstitious mind.
I had previously been informed by her Dad when he 'found religion, that 'what I did was evil, although I myself was not' - due to my activities in Spiritualism.

I had also previously given Healing some years before, to a member of their family which on that occasion was an 'instant', so I seem to be an enigma, especially to another relative who became a Baptist clergyman.


Last edited by hiorta on Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:03 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Spelling correction)
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Re: Why aren't more members posting?

Post by skfarblum on Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:37 am

Dear hiorta,
You lost me a little bit on some points.
You where in the tearoom.Your sister's presence was very evident to you.
Did your sister transfigure her daughter ?.Why the pain for your niece? From the shock of
seeing her late mother or did the pain occur because of the transfiguration?
Sorry if I am misunderstanding things.
One other little query.Do you see any change occurring in Spirit due to our
living in this world?If not ,what happens to those aspects of our personalities we
have due to personal effort viz ;use of freewill.?
I am just trying to understand what you are saying.I fully appreciate the difficulties to
explain matters perhaps to a person who does not have your experience in mediumship.
Just trying to learn.Thanks
Stephen
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Re: Why aren't more members posting?

Post by KatyKing on Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:46 am

Baptists are hard work and no mistake especially the Calvinistic ones.
We had a lovely old lady neighbour now passed who was a pillar of the Baptist chapel. She was dyed in the wool Calvinist who would say things like.....'She had an accident.... SO CALLED'.....because in her book eveything was predestined to happen.
That said she was convinced that the 'ghost' of Mr X a former Deacon haunted the chapel and told me on more than one occasion....
'I was having a chat to Mr X while I was doing the chapel flowers'...
For sure she can chat to him to her heart's content now.
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Re: Why aren't more members posting?

Post by hiorta on Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:17 am

You lost me a little bit on some points.
You where in the tearoom.Your sister's presence was very evident to you.
Yes

Did your sister transfigure her daughter ? Yes.

Why the pain for your niece? From the shock of seeing her late mother or did the pain occur because of the transfiguration? No, she could not see the transfiguration as it was upon her, but must have felt 'something happening', which would have spooked her.
She has a strong healing capacity, quite unrecognised by her or her familly. When someone like that experiences spirit coming so close, unwittingly their last Earth conditions come with them and impinge on the medium. Depending on the condition, this can be a very 'heavy' experience each time until the spirit learns to modify this effect. (this is useful in evidential recognition of the spirit), but an unsuspecting mediumistic person could believe they are having a 'heart attack' or whatever symptom is present. This can happen when folk take the ouija board to be a game.

Sorry if I am misunderstanding things. Not at all. If anything helps your understanding, please ask

One other little query.Do you see any change occurring in Spirit due to our
living in this world? I'm not sure I understand - everyone is in constant change

If not ,what happens to those aspects of our personalities we
have due to personal effort viz; use of freewill? They will continue in line with how they think, until a need for change is reaised. Motive, of course provides or detracts from potency

I am just trying to understand what you are saying. I fully appreciate the difficulties to explain matters perhaps to a person who does not have your experience in mediumship. Please don't concern yourself - everyone is gaining experience everyday. Then we have to build an understanding based on it, so it's no surprise to find differing opinions. No one knows All.
Just trying to learn.Thanks
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Re: Why aren't more members posting?

Post by skfarblum on Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:35 am

Dear hiorta,
What a useful,informative reply.
Very much appreciated.
Thank you
Stephen
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Re: Why aren't more members posting?

Post by obiwan on Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:55 am

Hi Hiorta

I read your original post on this with interest. It sounds like a very curious experience. How long has it been since this person 'died' before they transfigured their daughter as you describe?

obiwan


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Re: Why aren't more members posting?

Post by hiorta on Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:46 pm

Obi, I attended the funeral, but elapsed time like this rarely registers. It must be at least 5 years. Her unexpected apearance was a surprise and a delight to me
This is an aspect of Spiritualism where a 'returning soul' has an advantage with knowledge present on both sides of the veil. Presumably this must help the one who has passed. I had hoped to get an opportunity to discuss the event, but it doesn't look likely.
I remember in the early days of seeking, although I was well enough read, my Dad used to come just around the time of the Healing Service within a Service and the trademark heart attack was always his visiting card plus a sense of him.

The impact of this condition quickly reduced from very heavy to feather light as he learned to control it.
In turn, we will need to learn the same points.
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Re: Why aren't more members posting?

Post by mac on Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:13 pm

"This is an aspect of Spiritualism where a 'returning soul' has an advantage with knowledge present on both sides of the veil. Presumably this must help the one who has passed. I had hoped to get an opportunity to discuss the event, but it doesn't look likely."

I apologise if this is off-topic but hiorta's account reminds me of a vividly striking event some years back. I have a friend who, like me, is a long-term Spiritualist. She is also crippled by osteo-arthritis but had tried all manner of so-called remedies looking for relief. She had had spiritual healing from friends (which helped temporarily) and eventually tried a certain colour-healing treament in which I helped her.

After a few times there was no evidence of improvement and one evening we sat discussing the situation. As we sat there I felt sure there was help to hand and I suggested this to her. She was willing to try and I wasn't wrong. Shortly after she said she could feel a change. After tat she was able to raise her arm (which had been near-paralysed by the pain of her condition) high above her head and she broke into floods of tears that she had done it for the first time in years. She was so improved she decided she wanted to take a bath and wash her hair, something she'd been unable to do by herself. I left promising to contact her the following day and offering to sit with her again.

It wasn't to be. The relief was temporary (no surprise) but I could not persuade her to sit with me again. That was years ago and no similar opportunity has ever presented itself again. Seemingly a once-in-a-lifetime event but the memory of it has remained vivid in my mind.

Oh how I wish I could have done more....



Last edited by mac on Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

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