Independent Spiritualists Association USA

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Independent Spiritualists Association USA

Post by Admin on Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:48 pm

For those in the US this may be interesting, they use the NSAC Principles but are clearly proudly independent. Like to know more about them
http://independentspiritualists.org/Home_Page.php
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Re: Independent Spiritualists Association USA

Post by mac on Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:56 am

Admin wrote:For those in the US this may be interesting, they use the NSAC Principles but are clearly proudly independent. Like to know more about them
http://independentspiritualists.org/Home_Page.php

I took a look - could be some 'iffy' principles there for traditional UK (and maybe Aussie) Spiritualists....

It's a little too prescribed for me but my Trans-Atlantic friends may be fine with it all. I couldn't recommend it.


Last edited by mac on Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:59 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : completed text)

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Re: Independent Spiritualists Association USA

Post by mac on Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:58 am

Oops - deleted because I double-posted


Last edited by mac on Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:01 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : double posting in error)

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Re: Independent Spiritualists Association USA

Post by KatyKing on Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:37 pm

Aren't they more tightly denominational than the rather more freewheeling NSAC?
Just an impression from conversation in the States, never actually been to one of their meetings.
Given the size of USA I suspect that their are more spiritualists as a % of population here in England. Anyone know for sure?
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Re: Independent Spiritualists Association USA

Post by KatyKing on Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:39 pm

Aren't they more tightly denominational than the rather more freewheeling NSAC?
Just an impression from conversation in the States, never actually been to one of their meetings.
Given the size of USA I suspect that their are more spiritualists as a % of population here in England. Anyone know for sure?
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Re: Independent Spiritualists Association USA

Post by KatyKing on Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:43 pm

How did that double entry happen? Flippin' Kindle! You need thumbs like a mouse and eyes like a hawk to use it. Free though.
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Re: Independent Spiritualists Association USA

Post by Admin on Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:45 pm

Hi Katy,

I think that you may now be right about their being more Spiritualists in the Uk than the USA, indeed it may be correct in absolute terms not just as a ratio per head of population. I have a very good friend who, having been on their board of the NSAC and remaining close to it, despairs of the way things are going over there. The numbers of NSAC members and Churches have dropped substantially.

Of course there are also bible belt states where there are no Spiritualist Churches. The USA suffers the same tyranny of distance we have in oz. The churches are scattered widely which means the pool of available local mediums declines and the whole spiral can quickly go downhill. Remember when you deal in inter state travel and accomodation costs jump quickly. This is added to rapidly when the guest medium expects renumeration as well as travel board and lodging.

I am also aware that when a Church relies on people accomodating the guests it can bring unbidden problems when the poor Medium ends up feeling they are the personal psychic to their hosts.

This is a juggling act we are always trying to balance, with visitors either from interstate or overseas. Yet the visitors are essential to add depth to peoples understanding of mediumship and Spiritualism. However, you do need to have an exact understanding of what skills they bring to help.

I think that the closeness of all but some remoter areas is what has held Spiritualism together in the UK leaving it better placed than other country to generate a renaissance. However unless the members of the SNU light a bonfire under the current NEC to stir them to act correctly it may not happen.

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Re: Independent Spiritualists Association USA

Post by mac on Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:44 am

I'm none too impressed with what I've read from my TransAtlantic friends online. There may be more Spiritualists over here than in the UK but on a proportion-to-population basis I'd be interested to know the actual figures - I doubt, though, that anyone has any clear data so it's mainly guesswork.

As for the SNU well that's not Spiritualism and the goings-on over the past 18 months make me glad I feel no pressure to be any part of that organisation. I never did feel any such pressure....

As for Modern Spiritualism as a whole I'd guess that Oz and Limey-Land are better situated than anywhere else but even then it's none too rosy.

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Re: Independent Spiritualists Association USA

Post by hiorta on Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:16 am

Of course all these labels suggest, imply even, a solid, static, changeless organisation. Perhaps this is intentional.
But, they are only as good as their weakest link and that may be found hiding anywhere in the organisation.
A real Spiritualist knows it - without need of props or framed Principles on a wee wall.
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Re: Independent Spiritualists Association USA

Post by KatyKing on Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:44 pm

Interesting area. I'll see what stata I can trawl u next week in work [alf term hols this week thank goodness]. Thanks for that thoughtful reply Jim. My dad passed in oz and the spiritualist churches he served were around Melbourne although he did plant a cause in Coober Pedey as well. That was a mineral mining settlement. Long gone I suspect. Mac &hiorta too. Thanks for the valued input. I'd tend to accept as a spiritualist anyone who self defined as such. We're non credal so 'ach to their own'. The only validity SNU and its ilk has lies in [it seems to me anyway] self referentiality, their ability to define as 'other' those who are not members of their particular organisation. That said, with the possible exception of the High Spiritualists [old order Cora LV acolytes and they seem to have have no real organization beyond a very useful website] who have excommunicated us all, Emma H-B included, I'm unaware of any spirtualist group SNU included claiming a monopoly on the truth and title of spiritualism. Best two booklets of late and the most inclusive here in UK are the SNU commissioned Religion & Philosophy of Spiritualism. Those are still on sale via SNU shop although I have heard on PN site that at least one of the co-authors David Hopkins was subsequently deposed from the Philosophy &Ethics committe that researched and wrote the pamphlets. Were the SNU to return to its roots as a mutually supportive syndicate of independent spiritualist groups of many varieties then more might join. That can't happen given the cumbersome and largely self serving Regional and National hierarchies with their vested interest in maintaining an ever diminishing status quo. At one time in order to d public demonstrations in England and be within the law you had to be SNU or you couldn't buy mandatory insurance as only one company offered cover and acting as sole agent SNU had the monopoly. Nowadays ALL the spiritualist membership bodies offer professinal indemnity and public liability cover to keep the working medium legal and most of them quote cheaper rates than does the SNU. I can't see much advantage in SNU membership these days. It was a grand idea at the outset until the placeholders and management types infested it. The SNUi is a faint echo of what SNU once was, a most 'ecumenical' group and no threat as we're scattered across the globe hence ignored by the powers that be, which is nice.
To sum up IMHO if you claim the name spiritualist then that's what you are and welcome.
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Re: Independent Spiritualists Association USA

Post by mac on Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:15 pm

"To sum up IMHO if you claim the name spiritualist then that's what you are and welcome."

absolutely - If anything it's much more damned hard to get folk to accept themselves as a 'Spiritualist' because (I've oft seen it written) any kind of label puts them in a box. total nonsense!

But 'spiritualist' often isn't the same as 'Spiritualist' yet often folk think it is. I've been here so many times before that I won't bore anyone again.

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Re: Independent Spiritualists Association USA

Post by KatyKing on Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:35 pm

Good point mac, that was a sloppily defined assertion....
How about then ? ....
'If anyone tells me that they are....'
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Re: Independent Spiritualists Association USA

Post by mac on Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:25 pm

KatyKing wrote:Good point mac, that was a sloppily defined assertion....
How about then ? ....
'If anyone tells me that they are....'

I was fine with what you wrote earlier. Smile

It was only the word a 'spiritualist' (someone interested in spiritual issues) compared with a 'Spiritualist' - an adherent of the religion and philosophy of (Modern) Spiritualism - that I was meaning.

I'm forever getting it in the neck on other websites when I say spiritualism isn't the same as Spiritualism... Folk can get very heated - folk who see both as the same. Folk who have no understanding of Modern Spiritualism.

Even those over here where it has its roots.....


Last edited by mac on Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:50 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : addition of 'as' the same)

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Re: Independent Spiritualists Association USA

Post by mac on Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:33 pm

There's a similarity with 'conservative' and 'Conservative' (Tory party adherent)

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Re: Independent Spiritualists Association USA

Post by KatyKing on Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:19 pm

Take your point mac.
It's one of those circular arguments wherein, unless each party clearly defines and agrees to abide by mutually acceptable definitions of terms then little progress can ever be made. We sometimes encounter similar problems at work with first year undergrads often conflating Pragmatism [a philosophical methodology within education] and pragmatism ['best fit']. A few swift blows to the head via a weighty volume of Dewey or Peirce and they're usually fine by year two. bounce
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Re: Independent Spiritualists Association USA

Post by KatyKing on Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:21 pm

Take your point mac.
It's one of those circular arguments wherein, unless each party clearly defines and agrees to abide by mutually acceptable definitions of terms then little progress can ever be made. We sometimes encounter similar problems at work with first year undergrads often conflating Pragmatism [a philosophical methodology within education] and pragmatism ['best fit']. A few swift blows to the head via a weighty volume of Dewey or Peirce and they're usually fine by year two. bounce
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Re: Independent Spiritualists Association USA

Post by Admin on Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:36 pm

Hi Katy,
Best two booklets of late and the most inclusive here in UK are the SNU commissioned Religion & Philosophy of Spiritualism. Those are still on sale via SNU shop although I have heard on PN site that at least one of the co-authors David Hopkins was subsequently deposed from the Philosophy &Ethics committe that researched and wrote the pamphlets.

One of the best articles about the demise of the committee that wrote these books is on Paranormal Review at a Question of Ethics.

http://www.paranormalreview.com/articles/20110419

Once again a fine example of the way the NEC works especially when taking it in the context of everything else they have done. They really are a not nice mob.
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Re: Independent Spiritualists Association USA

Post by mac on Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:47 pm

KatyKing wrote:Take your point mac.
It's one of those circular arguments wherein, unless each party clearly defines and agrees to abide by mutually acceptable definitions of terms then little progress can ever be made. We sometimes encounter similar problems at work with first year undergrads often conflating Pragmatism [a philosophical methodology within education] and pragmatism ['best fit']. A few swift blows to the head via a weighty volume of Dewey or Peirce and they're usually fine by year two. bounce

I've been trying for nearly three years to get some ideas about what others - non Spiritualists - mean by various commonly used words. It's proved mostly impossible even to get personal explanations let alone agreed definitions. Hence there's constant confusion about what's meant, what's being discussed.

I've reached a point where I've just about given up trying because all I get is criticism for wanting to be clear about what's under discussion - and I've had a LOT of hostility over this time on the matter.

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Re: Independent Spiritualists Association USA

Post by KatyKing on Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:12 am

Very Happy Really heavy book.
WHACK!
Works every time. Not easy via internet though.
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Re: Independent Spiritualists Association USA

Post by mac on Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:19 am

KatyKing wrote: Very Happy Really heavy book.
WHACK!
Works every time. Not easy via internet though.

crude but effective, then? Laughing Wish there was a cyber equivalent.

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Re: Independent Spiritualists Association USA

Post by Left Behind on Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:35 am

Spiritualism in the US?

Let me put it this way. I've lived in the US all my life, and I'm 60 years old. I've lived in 6 different states. I've lived in the Northeast, deep South, Midwest, and Southwest. I've lived in 3 major cities, 1 medium one, and 2 smaller ones.

I've never been to a Spiritualist church. I've never even seen one, or known a single person who attends one.

I've never met anyone who told me that he or she was a Spiritualist.

Does that give you some indication of the state of Spiritualism in the US? Crying or Very sad


Jim

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Re: Independent Spiritualists Association USA

Post by _Leslie_ on Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:03 pm

Jim.... you need to get out more Wink


Seriously, I'm a little surprised that you've never met anyone, given the number of dedicated 'spiritualist camps' and retreats etc that have been established for a considerable number of years.
But is it something people go around (anywhere in the World) announcing to others? Seems to just 'crop' up on the odd occasion in conversation over here in the UK, then its normally 'oh'... you're one of them Smile
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Re: Independent Spiritualists Association USA

Post by KatyKing on Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:21 pm

Then you must plant one Jim. Try a small 'spiritualist writings interest and development group' ad in local free paper and use a cheap or free community space to meet in. Libraries are surprisingly obliging. Give them a handout or fun quiz to work on in the first session and see what transpires. Email me for resources if you fancy having a go.
When is the best time to plant a tree?
A = Twenty years ago.
And the next best time?
A =Today.
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Re: Independent Spiritualists Association USA

Post by KatyKing on Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:24 pm

Then you must plant one Jim. Try a small 'spiritualist writings interest and development group' ad in local free paper and use a cheap or free community space to meet in. Libraries are surprisingly obliging. Give them a handout or fun quiz to work on in the first session and see what transpires. Email me for resources if you fancy having a go.
When is the best time to plant a tree?
A = Twenty years ago.
And the next best time?
A =Today.
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KatyKing


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Re: Independent Spiritualists Association USA

Post by mac on Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:59 pm

Left Behind wrote:Spiritualism in the US?

Let me put it this way. I've lived in the US all my life, and I'm 60 years old. I've lived in 6 different states. I've lived in the Northeast, deep South, Midwest, and Southwest. I've lived in 3 major cities, 1 medium one, and 2 smaller ones.

I've never been to a Spiritualist church. I've never even seen one, or known a single person who attends one.

I've never met anyone who told me that he or she was a Spiritualist.

Does that give you some indication of the state of Spiritualism in the US? Crying or Very sad


Jim

That's a fair representation as far as this temporary Arizona-based Spiritualist is concerned..... But before we began our main trip, early in 2004 we visited a small church close by our motel in Florida and a very welcoming place it was with an enthusiastic gathering. There were two evidential mediums, one of whom came to me with words from my customary contacts.

I had planned to look out as many churches as I could find as we journeyed around the US but other than one in Stockton-Lodi, CA (which I eventually decided against visiting) I've routinely found nothing within acceptable travelling distance. Very few and mostly far between, wholly unlike in the UK.

And like Jim I haven't encountered a single Spiritualist although along with politics it's not something I'd raise in conversation with friends.

mac


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