Trance communication and the mind of the medium

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Trance communication and the mind of the medium

Post by Guest on Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:00 pm

Research has consistently shown that the medium's mind is, to a greater or lesser degree, always present during trance communication, even when that trance state is deep. This is entirely logical. After all, the communication is coming through a human instrument.

What, then, are the implications for critical evaluation of evidence received through such mediumship? Clearly, the astute sitter will immediately discount - or take with a large pinch of salt - any communication which contains information previously known to the medium.

What other criteria should be employed when assessing evidence received through trance communication? I would be interested to know your thoughts.

Best to all

Alan

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Re: Trance communication and the mind of the medium

Post by Admin on Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:50 am

Hi Alan,

I have been steering around this question because I have not tried to do any trance yet. When I first became involved with Spiritualism, as a result of meeting Lis, I was lucky enough to be fast tracked into the circle where Lis did deep trance. Normal protocols in place, her friend and Maid of Honour at our wedding Daphne was circle leader and physical control responsible for testing the spirits plus Lis's well being (with Lis's own guides in Spirit). Lis had about 3 different guides that would come through. Once communication was starting Daphne's husband would activate the reel to reel recorder in another room because he would be sitting there listening in through the microphone in the circle room. Interesting, because in Lis's deep trance she was totally overshadowed by her guides and you could clearly distinguish the outline and look of them, often appearing that Lis had completely changed shape (the circle room was in dim red light).

Its now 24 years since I listened to the recordings, which were copied over to cassette but I was impressed with the quality and nature of the recordings. It was also interesting that spirit would edit out some conversations by not recording them and on one occasion they actually recorded a totally different trance communication to that which occured in the room.

I remember the discussions that took place then. By linking those ideas to what I have learned since and looking at your thoughts I believe that what you suggest is quite right. That some part of the mediums mind remains involved, indeed I think that if the medium has a very strong opinion on an issue it will appear. Controversially I believe we see this clearly when abortion appears as a subject, some trance mediums bring forth violent opposition others are neutral and not at all judgemental. There is a very clear division of opinion about when the Spirit enters the body with many spiritualists saying at birth and others suggesting different times. It appears to me that this is the one period in life where there has been a little pre planning (consciously or unconsciously by those physical parents) so I think it would be at the most beneficil time for the spirit involved to learn that lesson they chose. Looking at this I cannot believe that whatever the parents choose at this time is harmful to Spirit's plan.

I raise this to indicate the problem just in trance where it is necessary to carefully evaluate the information and decide upon the value of the material. Equally the worth of the spirits need to be checked are they real or giving what appears to be misinformation. I have to say this is exactly the case with David Thompson and William Charles Cadwell, where the information given on his existence is wrong and the material he gives can include potentially harmful advice. David is also interesting because he uses his martial arts training to link into trance. I am aware of a few "channellers" who link this way rather than the traditional meditation approach. I don't know if anyone has any thoughts on this methodology?


Of course in any trance we also have the decision to make, is the person deliberately making up the communication. Alternatively by whatever means they change their consciousness are they inadvertantly accessing a multiple personality or a seperate part of their own consciousness (we should be aware that certain mental conditions can possibly be triggered by our work and the voices people hear are their own) remember in serious multiple personality cases physical features and health conditions can appear and disappear. Then we may just have someone who is so uncontrolled going into trance that they are willing to let anything in whatever it may do. In the modern, learn trance in a day workshops, thats a real risk.


So entering this minefield, how do we evaluate this, in honesty I think it is by very tight questioning of the Spirits that appear. It is essential to judge the worth of how they appear and what they say and do. It is my understanding that, for example, Warren Caylor's purported Child Guide loves to smash things up. For the life of me I cannot see how this relates to either a wise spiritual being or even one that is really appropriate to help us carry the message of survival.

I have also heard it propounded that the intellectual capacity of the medium is a limiting factor to what can be brought through and the way it will be presented. The communicators will tend to gravitate to whatever they can work with and spirit will recognise that with an appropriate match up.

Clearly part of the job is also to know the medium involved and his value system and ethics (if this is actually possible as superficially many can look great). If truly like attracts like then a medium who is prepared to enhance his abilities and make unreal claims is likely to, if he is really working with spirit, attract a similar spirit personality. If there are reservations about the medium then it is likely that the communications need even more careful checking.

It is a fascinating question to look at and over history Spiritualism has not done it consistently well. Many people have rejected our movement because the claims, that trance and physical mediums have been bringing great ones through, are not matched to the intelligence and style of their communications. On that subject I ran into a rather sympathetic piece from a Jesuit Priest about Spiritualism, a Herbert Thurston in 1995, who I understand used to communicate with Maurice Barbanell. He makes it clear that had the material brought through by Spiritualists from supposed great intelligences, even from the very earliest days and "Benjamin Franklin", better matched the type of quality that should have been expected from these evolved one's then he and many others may have embraced the movement. Indeed a writer in the New York times made a similar comment to Thurston 140 years ago about the multiplycity of dumb Benjamin Franklins.

So you are right to ask , if the Spirits are talking to us it is a necessity that we evaluate, consider and discern before accepting.

I hope by answering you I open the flood gates for you on this very vital topic.

Cheers

Jim


Last edited by Admin on Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Trance communication and the mind of the medium

Post by iceblue on Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:52 am

Gday,yes the mediums mind can interfere,like other types of mediums you get ya good ones,and then the ones that try.However a good trance medium,the guide will of course take over,and many will find that if they try and put their own thoughts in, the communication stops(does with me anyway).Trance levels are different with every medium, deeper the trance less likely for the mind to interfere.That said tho,my guide often says things that contradict my own thoughts or views,which spins me out.
I had a gent sit with me recently,a very good medium himself the guide came thru,gave a very quick chat and withdrew,told me that it was no good with that fella there.The next week he gave a very long talk on those who can only criticize,and do so without looking into things deeper,criticize without understanding,he was talking about the bloke from the week before.So a negative or unsuitable sitter can effect the trance levels therefor the mind can interfere more.
Method i use personally,it takes about 15 mins for me to relax and the guide take over,so we sit and listen to classical music for that time,when he comes thru the music is turned down, not off.
In this first 15 mins or so i feel him come close, in and out,he never rushes things he gets me at a decent level then starts talking,the more he talks the deeper the state gets till i feel like iam floating,i have had obes at this stage,i feel very removed like iam going to fall asleep.It will stay at this stage until he is ready to withdraw,i feel him starting to withdraw before he says his good byes,and he slowly lightens the trance again.Sometimes i can remember sometimes not what he has said.
My guide only does the trance work,rarely does he let anyone else take control.One of the cheeky children comes thru sometimes,complaining they dont let him speak enough.I did think this young fella was part of my imagination - ego- whatever you want to call it,until one of my sitters told me she has him on film,he paid her a visit so she thought she would record it,he always wears a tux to circle(10year old in a tux lol)sure enough he has the tux on.
The better the medium the better the communication,tho like with all things if what they say does not ring true then dismiss it,or question it.
Iam sure that especially in the early stages of development the mind of the medium plays a big part,but development needs to push the medium and push him/her to the point where they do loose control to their guide,so the trance medium needs the right mentors to enable this to happen,so not only do you need a suitable medium,but that medium needs suitable teaching,it is with this teaching pushed by the mentors which in the end, results in a decent trance mediumship.
I think the medium at times doubts themselves wondering if it is their own self or spirit,but when they do things like quote from books the medium has never even heard of,you have to wonder eh.ib

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Re: Trance communication and the mind of the medium

Post by mandy on Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:04 pm

Aw what a lovely explanation there Ice

Jim you know with the like attracts like theory do you think that could be why certain guides come through with certain opinions such as abortion whether they are for it or against it...could it be that guides do retain their personality to a certain degree and the like attracts like theory comes into practice when a guide and medium are brought together, whether the choice is made before incarnation or whenever?

Love and Light

Mandy xx

I am really getting interested in trance. I thought a guy I knew was already developing as a trance medium but apparantly he has had training at stanstead and he says that he will be starting to sit for trance shortly but he hasn't yet. I offered to sit for him. I would love as much advice as possible if he accepts my offer. I hope he does.

mandy


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Re: Trance communication and the mind of the medium

Post by iceblue on Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:58 pm

Best advice i can give would be find a good mentor or teacher that can help with the trance.If you are sitting for someone else,keep the guide talking with lots of questions.Some trance mediums and their guides will start off with a very long talk on this and that, light and love etc,they may not take questions,but most should be able to.
Willow does not tend to chit chat much,he says his greetings and takes questions straight away,some times a talk on an appropriate subject if needed.More sensitive sitters should also be able to feel the presence of the guide also.I have seen trance mediums and i have seen trance mediums,use discernment in the content and also picking a decent teacher.ib

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Re: Trance communication and the mind of the medium

Post by mandy on Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:13 am

Thanks hun

mandy


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Re: Trance communication and the mind of the medium

Post by garygray on Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:27 am

Hi all, does anyone know of a reputable medium in Cape Town, SA who would be able to give a course/guidance in direct voice/ channeling work ? I am interested in further reseach and would appreciate sincere direction..

garygray

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Re: Trance communication and the mind of the medium

Post by mac on Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:06 am

Admin wrote:Hi Alan,

I have been steering around this question because I have not tried to do any trance yet. When I first became involved with Spiritualism, as a result of meeting Lis, I was lucky enough to be fast tracked into the circle w........................many others may have embraced the movement. Indeed a writer in the New York times made a similar comment to Thurston 140 years ago about the multiplycity of dumb Benjamin Franklins.

So you are right to ask , if the Spirits are talking to us it is a necessity that we evaluate, consider and discern before accepting.

I hope by answering you I open the flood gates for you on this very vital topic.

Cheers

Jim


excellent piece, Jim. Thoroughly enjoyed it.

As always the key factor seems to be 'Test the communicator'.

mac


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Re: Trance communication and the mind of the medium

Post by mac on Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:10 am

"My guide only does the trance work,rarely does he let anyone else take control.One of the cheeky children comes thru sometimes,complaining they dont let him speak enough.I did think this young fella was part of my imagination - ego- whatever you want to call it, until one of my sitters told me she has him on film,he paid her a visit so she thought she would record it,he always wears a tux to circle(10year old in a tux lol)sure enough he has the tux on."


You got me wondering here, Duncan.....

Would you enlarge upon the underlined, bold section above, please?

mac


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Re: Trance communication and the mind of the medium

Post by zerdini on Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:57 pm

HOW SILVER BIRCH CONTROLS HIS MEDIUM

Silver Birch is always anxious to answer our questions and when, at one sitting, a sitter asked him to explain how he controlled his medium, the guide went into great detail in his explanation. He said:

I am not inside this body. Around this body there is an aura - you know the aura is what is depicted in the pictures of saints - and I come into that aura with my aura. But your pictures only show the aura as white. In reality, it is full of colours, and these colours are a complete indication of everything that you do, what you think and what you are. Those who can see the aura know you better than you know yourselves. They know the sort of person you are - what you think, what you have achieved, where you lack and where you succeed. The aura is the permanent record of everything that you are.

I come as close as I can, whilst the instrument makes himself receptive. He must not set up any vibrations because they disturb. He must be quiet. If he runs about I cannot come into his aura. As he sits passively, so his consciousness slips away and I, harmonizing myself with the aura, try to achieve a perfect union. The more perfect the union between his aura and mine, the more perfect is the control that I have over him.

I become, for the time being, and with his permission and co-operation, the tenant not of his body but of his mind. His consciousness has abdicated in my favour and I am his conscious mind, whilst I reign. Because all the cells of the body are controlled by the mind, through the brain, my control gives me complete mastery over the body. I can speak with his lips, I can move his hands and his legs. If you touch him, he does not feel it. If you pinch him, or stick pins or needles in him, he does not feel it. People have done that. It does not register.

I am now the tenant, and I throw a shaft of light on to the back of his neck. That gives me control of all the nerves in the body as well, so that I have mental control, control over the nerves and complete physical control whilst I am using this instrument.

When I first began to use him, I had to search through his vocabulary to find words, learning them all the time like you have to when you learn a foreign language. I had to learn the words and then find them in his vocabulary and, as it were, press the key of a typewriter to make the words rise to his lips.

Then the trouble was that when I hit one key tofind a word, his subconscious mind, which was not then properly trained, would interfere, because of the association of ideas that always exists.

So I had to learn, while I was mastering this language, so to control this subconscious mind that when I wanted one word that word only registered and nothing else came with it. That took me a long time, but now I find any word I want and even words that he has forgotten, and sometimes words he never uses. That is only a question of practice. At the same time as I am doing that, I have to tune in to a series of’ power stations so that the knowledge I want to transmit is ready to be “connected”.

One of the troubles, and this is a great difficulty, is that once you get into the aura of the medium you have slackened your vibrations down, so that you are gradually cutting yourself off from the vibrations of the world of spirit to which you are normally accustomed. The threads that hold you become attenuated and, unless you have practised very diligently, they snap.

You can maintain contact with the physical world and lose the contact with the world of spirit. So, whilst I have the mastery over the body of the medium, at the same time I have to learn to retain my connections with all those power houses which supply me with the information I want to transmit to your world. That information is in record form, actually prepared, so that when I desire to tap one source the line is kept open for me.

In that I am assisted by many here, so that there is no interference. For there are attracted many thousands to such a gathering as this, all trying to make an opportunity of registering themselves, or else attracted out of curiosity, or else jokers who want to play tricks, or else those who are organised to try and interfere with us - and there is an organisation.

Also there are brought here those who do not believe that it is possible to communicate with your world so that they can see it is true. We have as much trouble in our world as you have in yours, because there are a lot of people who do not believe they are “dead”, and there are those who know that but do not know you can reach the world of matter.

All those others who help me are at work all the time to make sure I can receive the message. If I am to talk to you about, for example, the failure of the Churches and all institutional religion, all that knowledge is already prepared, for we know exactly what we think about the failure of the Churches. The line is kept open; I tune in - or plug in, to use your phraseology - and it pours through me and through the medium.

It is very complicated and there is a lot of work attached to it, and many have to labour arduously so that you can get this message. That should enable you to understand what I mean when I say I am only an instrument. That is all I am - an instrument of this higher power as it seeks to use me, as it seeks to use all of you.

Very, very rarely, something goes wrong. Perhaps they have not allowed for the climatic conditions, perhaps one of the engineers - if you like to call them such - has not calculated properly, and the line snaps. That has happened, and I have to plug in or tune in to another source that is waiting there. There is always another onestanding by in case one breaks down.

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Re: Trance communication and the mind of the medium

Post by Admin on Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:34 pm

Thanks for posting that Z, in its depth it also indicates the dangers of playing and how easy it may be for someone to reach a state where the information only came from their own subconcious mind. Hence, as was done with Silver Birch, the need for those physically present to very carefully test the spirits, another parctice which very few seem to follow properly (DT's COSC are a very good example as no one ver does this job properly when you listen to the seance recordings, indeed the "spirits" seem to rarely allow much questioning).

Jim
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Re: Trance communication and the mind of the medium

Post by zerdini on Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:52 am

Admin wrote:Thanks for posting that Z, in its depth it also indicates the dangers of playing and how easy it may be for someone to reach a state where the information only came from their own subconcious mind. Hence, as was done with Silver Birch, the need for those physically present to very carefully test the spirits, another parctice which very few seem to follow properly (DT's COSC are a very good example as no one ver does this job properly when you listen to the seance recordings, indeed the "spirits" seem to rarely allow much questioning).

Jim

....which begs the question - why do people pay to listen to such nonsense? Rolling Eyes

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Re: Trance communication and the mind of the medium

Post by iceblue on Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:55 am

mac wrote:"My guide only does the trance work,rarely does he let anyone else take control.One of the cheeky children comes thru sometimes,complaining they dont let him speak enough.I did think this young fella was part of my imagination - ego- whatever you want to call it, until one of my sitters told me she has him on film,he paid her a visit so she thought she would record it,he always wears a tux to circle(10year old in a tux lol)sure enough he has the tux on."


You got me wondering here, Duncan.....

Would you enlarge upon the underlined, bold section above, please?

Gday mate,is exactly as i stated,this young fella has been thru a few times,he is a circle guide he has stated he is not my guide but a helper of the physical group,he paid one of the sitters a visit and she caught him on camera.He looks about 12 inchs tall on the footage,theres also some unpleasant creatures as well,freaked her out a bit,a few ppl i have sat with he has made himself known.Its his job to keep everyone happy,bit of a joker.The footage would be of an apparition type figure as no medium was being used at the time it could not be materialization,but still pretty good.Iam not sure what else i can tell you,i thought it was my subconscious,turns out he has shown himself to more than just me.Cool huh Duncan

iceblue


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Re: Trance communication and the mind of the medium

Post by mac on Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:23 am

iceblue wrote:
mac wrote:"My guide only does the trance work,rarely does he let anyone else take control.One of the cheeky children comes thru sometimes,complaining they dont let him speak enough.I did think this young fella was part of my imagination - ego- whatever you want to call it, until one of my sitters told me she has him on film,he paid her a visit so she thought she would record it,he always wears a tux to circle(10year old in a tux lol)sure enough he has the tux on."


You got me wondering here, Duncan.....

Would you enlarge upon the underlined, bold section above, please?

Gday mate,is exactly as i stated,this young fella has been thru a few times,he is a circle guide he has stated he is not my guide but a helper of the physical group,he paid one of the sitters a visit and she caught him on camera.He looks about 12 inchs tall on the footage,theres also some unpleasant creatures as well,freaked her out a bit,a few ppl i have sat with he has made himself known.Its his job to keep everyone happy,bit of a joker.The footage would be of an apparition type figure as no medium was being used at the time it could not be materialization,but still pretty good.Iam not sure what else i can tell you,i thought it was my subconscious,turns out he has shown himself to more than just me.Cool huh Duncan

huh....raised more questions than it's answered Duncan Wink

I don't understand and can't figure what form the camera captured - or what the other entities accompanying him are either - I'm surprised nobody else picked up on this from your original posting. silent

Curious. So what do your group members think?

I'd love to hear more please?

mac


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Re: Trance communication and the mind of the medium

Post by iceblue on Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:01 pm

The image was captured on a mobile phone,in normal lighting.It looks like he is doing a tap dance in a white tux.
He appears to be 12 inches tall,you can make him out quite well,the sitter was interested in spirit photography,so we think he went to have his pic taken.She got a bit of phenomena one day upon returning home from work so she started snapping.You know in star wars,the holographic images that R2D2 puts out,i would describe it similar to that.
Group members were not really fussed about it,it was more confirmation of his presence within our group.
I did not make a copy of it,i was going to,but the sitters father fell ill,she wasnt sure if she would make circle so i told her to stay at home and look after her dad,she never returned to sit,the footage i believe was sent to that Fontana bloke for study.Aud at woodlands also saw this footage.
Altho a circle guide appears on the footage,it really has nothing to do with my mediumship,it was the mediumship of the sitter.
The other entities belonged to her,i did not recognize any others,one low vibration wanted a pic taken obviously bit ugly,beast looking type thing,all you can do is feel sorry for it,and give it compassion and love.
I think the most exciting part of it all is knowing this young fella is not from my head,i trust what he says a bit more now!
He has given details of his earthly life but nothing i can verify.
I realized one thing after all this,Spirit can be photographed/recorded if they want to be.Duncan

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Re: Trance communication and the mind of the medium

Post by Admin on Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:50 am

garygray wrote:Hi all, does anyone know of a reputable medium in Cape Town, SA who would be able to give a course/guidance in direct voice/ channeling work ? I am interested in further reseach and would appreciate sincere direction..

garygray

Hi Gary,

This one passed me by a while, unfortunately my last contact with anyone in South Africa was awhile ago. I have tracked his details and contacted him for you.

Jim
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Re: Trance communication and the mind of the medium

Post by Admin on Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:56 am

I don't understand and can't figure what form the camera captured - or what the other entities accompanying him are either - I'm surprised nobody else picked up on this from your original posting.

Good point Mac we must all be a bit dumb.

Hey Ice
The image was captured on a mobile phone,in normal lighting.It looks like he is doing a tap dance in a white tux.
He appears to be 12 inches tall,you can make him out quite well,the sitter was interested in spirit photography,so we think he went to have his pic taken.

Very interesting material love to have seen the picture. Any feedback from the two places that have it? Sounds like things are happening mate.

Jim
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Re: Trance communication and the mind of the medium

Post by mac on Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:22 am

thanks Duncan

mac


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Re: Trance communication and the mind of the medium

Post by iceblue on Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:26 pm

Fontana wanted to 'catch up' with the sitter that took the pics in her home,after going thru the footage he did try and arrange something iam unsure of the details but she refused him anyway,he did not end up looking into it.
Iam not bothered i dont have a copy of the footage,One thing i am spewing on is one lady has pics of all the white cotton candy left in a room after a sitting,all on the chairs,roof,floor, i have not been able to contact her.Oh well just have to wait until it happens again.Duncan

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